What I Said

[Swampman]

People get mad as heck when I say Americans won't do farm work.........

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9IGGQGO0%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1011&_LT=HOME_LARSDCCL1_UNEWS

[Heather]

The article is about workers in ONE state, and that state is California.  NOTHING people do in California should be a direct reflection of American's as a whole.

Heather

[beerbelly]

Americans do farm work everyday! Now if you want to talk about corporate farms, those owned by huge corporations, no they will not pay wages that Americans can work for!
  But they do not have to, the government provides them with cheap illegal alien labor! All they have to do is fill the politicos coffers so as to be reelected.
  The democrats will and are selling our country so as to remain in power! They don't give a rats A-- about those Mexicans. It will in the short term allow them to stay in power.
   I watched the same thing here in the south with the blacks. The democrats sucked up to them and were elected. But once they got enough power the blacks threw them out and elected blacks. The Mexicans will do the same, and our country will be gone.
                                           Beerbelly

[billy_56081]

My son, both brothers and 3 nephews do farm work, and get this they aint farmers, they work for farmers. WOW swampy you sure showed me.

[powderman]

The article is about workers in ONE state, and that state is California.  NOTHING people do in California should be a direct reflection of American's as a whole.

Heather

YEP, most of California is like a foreign country. POWDERMAN. 

[Swampman]

Keep those blinders adjusted gentlemen.  The food is rotting waiting for someone to pick it.  Like I said it would.

[Hooker]

Well who was thinking that defending our country from illegal invaders was going to be easy?
It's been awhile since this country has been through the fire she'll make if we hold the line and stay course like those before us.

A dear friend of mine landed on Omaha beach on D-Day. I asked him once before he past what he was thinking that day when men all around him were dieing .
He said " I scared at first and just knew it was my last day. I made peace with that and pushed on. I looked around and saw men some  fearless some brave and some frightened but they to were pushing forward and I thought damn I love my country and I'm proud to be among these men "
I'm proud to have known Frank I think if he were here he'd say, A few rotten vegetables ain't squat. Tighten up that chin strap shoulder that pack point that rifle at the fight and get your butt  up that hill .

Pat

[Swampman]

I did manage to find an apple that was grown in the US today in the produce section.  It cost me $169.00.

Everything else was grown in another country.  All those jobs .....exported.

[Matt3357]

All this exporting of jobs and use of illegal labor is all nice and dandy for the corporations.  The cheap labor causes profit margins to increase, but what happens when those countries become less 3rd world and demand higher wages and those people become less willing to work those menial jobs for menial pay?  Kinda sounds like China right now.  We probably will not run out of 3rd world countries or illegal aliens before my time is up, but it will happen.  The more a country develops, the lazier its people become. 

I think all of these jobs need to be brought back home for American's to work at, but things are going to be very expensive if we do.  Even at minimum wage, labor is insanely higher here than across borders.  There is no way for a company to compete with a Chinese competitor with US made products unless there is major quality differences.  The company I work for has had to have products made in our plant in China just to make the price low enough for our customer to even consider signing a contract for so much of the business.  Basically, NAFTA royally screwed us over as far as the US being a producing company.  China would not be where it is today without Bill Clinton.  Thanks Bill.

Matt

[Empty Quiver]

I am agreeing with you again Swampman.  In most rural towns you are hard pressed to get someone to buck bales, walk beans,detassle corn or any of the other labor needed. You all can have your anecdotal stories of the odd family member who does farm chores happily. The vast majority of farm labor has been replaced with machinery, chemistry, and Mexican labor. Americans are not too good to work and the sooner we lose that attitude the better

It can be argued that the reason is low wages, might be. But if that were true how can an illegal afford to live here? With unemployment at the current rate there is no reason for an illegal to get a job... 'cept maybe it pays better to sit at home watching Oprah and eating Oreo's. We all are paying into the unemployment insurance pool, and when unemployed we should be withdrawing our fair share. But when your share is gone push away from the gravy bowl and get yourself back in the game. I feel for folks, those who have lost good jobs, those who can no longer do the old job. It's time to put a few immigrants in the unemployment line, take their mowing job away from them, unload trucks, learn to drywall, roof a house, pick some produce, you are not too good to sweat out a paycheck, run their butts outta Taco Bell and every other restaraunt kitchen.

I'm sorta getting tired of carrying folks, some need it, many don't.

[wareagleguy]

Swampwater,
I am a farmer.  I work.  I know you can find people that do nothing but the fact is farmers are still working and working hard.  You are welcome to come and work for me and I will show you work.

[Swampman]

Swampwater,
I am a farmer.  I work.  I know you can find people that do nothing but the fact is farmers are still working and working hard.  You are welcome to come and work for me and I will show you work.

You completely missed my point.

I grew up farming rocks in Tennessee.  My mother picked cotton as a child.  Based on personal experience I'm sayin' it's almost impossible to find someone that's trainable or willing to work.  My current estimate (based on personal experience) is that one in ten employees are useful.  The rest are just drawing a check.

[Spirithawk]

Swamp likes to speak with a forked tongue. One second he'll tell you how proud he is of HIS people and HIS Nation and in the next second he'll tell you how ashamed he is of them. Most of what he says is blanket terms. If one apple in the barrel is bad then in his eyes they all must be.

[billy_56081]

Gotta agree with you there Spirithawk.

BTW welcome back haven't seen you here in awhile.

[Swampman]

If I could get a check from the government every month like Spirithawk, I wouldn't have to work either.  That's the problem,  too many on the government teat.

I have no "people" beyond my blood kin, and I'm not ashamed of my country.

[BUGEYE]

If I could get a check from the government every month like Spirithawk, I wouldn't have to work either.  That's the problem,  too many on the government teat.

I have no "people" beyond my blood kin, and I'm not ashamed of my country.

swamp, that's the problem. todays youth are taught from cradle that the "guvment" will take care of them.
one minority thinks they can either be basketball players or drug dealers and won't train for anything else.

[ironglow]

 The answer is simple economics;
  An Ilegal comes here and works for $10.25 per hour, which would be like $100.00 an hour back home in the barrio. So he comes here, is fed & watered all season, making what (for him) is $100.00 per hour. Perhaps many of us have taken that same temp job at enormous wages and stuck with it during the seasons on the job.
   We see that with Americans working oil fields or Blackwater type security in the mideast.
  AS far as Americans working for the same $10.25 per hour..let's use a bit of gray matter. Jose comes here from south of the border, works for $10.25 per hour, and saves or sends home every cent of it.
  American, Bill comes to work for $10.25 an hour, out of that he has to pay tax, FICA, health insurance and daily transportation.
   To level the playing field, the honest, taxpaying American should be getting $20 for the same job..

   BTW: I was raised on a farm..dairy farms around here. My Dad worked at a factory job as well for years while I went to school. In order to do it all, we got up each morning at 3:45 to start the day, usually finishing just after dark..except for planting & harvesting seasons ..which meant longer days.  Still have dairy farms around here, although they are bigger now..and we don't have foreign workers, just hard working Americans, thank you !

[gypsyman]

There are 4 local fruit and veggie farms close to me. I'm sure they use local people for the work, as their not big farms that need 20-40 workers. And, 2 of them, I've personally seen the kids in the orchards picking, and their high school kids.
It's not like it use to be 40 years ago, as the big con-agra type farms are dominating. But, if you look around, you can see smaller farms using local folks. gypsyman

[SHOOTALL]

Lets see , We have farms here that work Americans , many have other jobs and work off days on the farm for extra income. This makes sense since much farm work is seasonal. That may be the fact that many Americans don't work farm full time , because its not full time work in many cases. I do know some who work for milking operations that work year round but only a few are needed . My grandfather was a tobacco farmer and also grew veggies for market . He also cut timber when he was not doing farm work .
Consider if you want to get a house you need full year round employment to get a loan . Same for a truck. Our socity has made it hard to work on a farm. Its not a JOB it is a way of life that is harder than most are willing to live when other jobs offer more $$$ and less risk.

[LONGTOM]

I say all able bodied AMERICANS can work for the same wages that the illegal's do if they would do just one thing, and that is LIVE WITHIN THEIR MEANS!
No you can't work for those wages and own a over sized home, several cars & suvs, a new motor home and a boat, go on vacations and eat out many nights a week, but you could own all that it would take to get along.

My best hunting buddy and his wife get along very well on a total for the two of them of $35,000 to $40,000 a year before taxes.
She works part time at a grocery store and he operates a backhoe for a local construction company.
He has been out of work for several months at a time the last few years and refuses to go on unemployment.
He is doing odd jobs and a little buying & selling of ammo.
They owe no money, own their own home,(small it may be) a suv and a couple of trucks.
They were brought up the old fashioned way and choose to live the same.
Granted, they have no kids which makes it a lot easier than for most, but it still can be done.

I hear people saying I can't find a job.
Bologna!
Our local paper is full of help wanted ads.
It may not be in the field you are trained for or would prefer but it is still work.
Like others have said, most prefer to have everything handed to them by the government.
If they would have saved, back when things were good, instead of spending it all because there would always be a pay check next week, maybe they wouldn't be in the mess they are in now!

A few years ago, before the economy went bad, I was one of the largest livestock trailer dealers on the east coast (if not the largest).
I was selling well over 400 trailers a year.
Last year I sold just 21.
This year, it is 17 so far.
If I had not been taught to save when things were good, GOD knows where I would be today.
We have cut way back on things and just do without on some, hasn't killed us yet!

The point I am trying to make is, it isn't that AMERICANS can't do farm work, it is that they won't do it or won't do it for the wages being paid.
Have you ever heard anyone say, man, the prices at the grocery stores are really cheap these days?
That is with the cheap labor.
Just imagine what the prices would be if farmers had to pay what AMERICANS would demand for the same work.
AMERICANS have become soft and lazy.
They want it all and want it now.
They aren't willing to make the sacrifices that their parents and grandparents made trying to get to the so-called "good life"!

Sorry if I have rambled quit a bit, but I think most of you will get where I am comming from.




LONGTOM

[slim rem 7]

i hope you are right hooker.. i love freedom an this nation ,with a passion..
but i believe shes got to return to the one that made her great,, to beat this very determined an skilled
opponent to freedom.. time will tell.. i just hope, if im still around ,i measure up an fight the good fight ..
 its gonna be hard as not much fight in me ,anymore.. but they won t have to tellem i was there.. even if they looking dn on me as life flows out of me..can t think of a better way to leave this old earth..
 everybody will die someday..jmo

[SHOOTALL]

Longtom Americans want to get the most for their labor . Yes some are lazy but many are not . And how does a new couple just starting out get into farming with out debt or someone setting them up ?
 The American people can't complain about loss of farmers and demand low prices.

[ironglow]

Longtom had some very cogent points. Many Americans have been living 'high on the hog' just a bit too long. Look at our folks..no TV, no fancy 4WD pickups, no 4WD tractors even. Certainly no ATV and no snow machines, store bought lunch or dinner perhaps 1 time per month.
  Virtually none of the 'toys" many have today. Forty-hour-a-week job was only a dream.
       Some of the houses (older ones) were large, a throwback to the huge farm families w/help, but most built in the 20th century were quite modest. Why does a couple with 1.7 children (avg) need a mansion? Many people who have a super deluxe 4WD rig with all kinds of carpets, TV and sundry electronic gee-gaws, use them off-road for 2-3 days a year (where all the electronics, TV and carpets are a detriment rather than a help.
   Problem is, many who have all these extra goodies have several plastic cards ..all maxed out..partially explaining how we got into this mess.
   Biggest problem is the homes some folks "needed"..did they really? Govt, being stupid...as govt often is, offered unbelieveable bargains in loan rates..just too good to believe. Remember when it says "too good to believe"...it likely is..
  Many defaulters walked right into a storm...strapping themselves with home payments that sometimes took as much as 1/2 their monthly income. Common sense and rule-of-thumb always told us that PITI (principle, interest, taxes and insurance) should NEVER be more than 1/4 the monthly income, and preferrably less.
  Yes, evidently fruit & vegetables would cost more with American harvesters, but we should be ready to pay it..but not for illegal labor.
  Today, food in America is a tremendous bargain and our farmers have always been hard pressed to become more and more productive.
   Back in the 1950s, when I was a teenager, our milk sold (to the milk plant) for around $10 per hundred pounds, today it brings $14 to $16 per hundred.   ...If only other things (especially govt) were anywhere near that efficent and priced in equivalence ! A new Chevy or Ford would cost about $2200.  Look in your market..the price of Milk, eggs, beans, flour and apples...if you lived in western Europe or Japan, you would be paying much more a percentage of your income..just to eat.

  Remember the old saying, developed when farmers and all their help were Americans..."Don't complain about farmers, with your mouth full"!

[Spirithawk]

Yeah Swamp, I get a check each month. A service related VA pension as a severely disabled Vietnam Vet not as a Cherokee as you like to insinuate. Again, a perfect example of you taking a grain of truth and twisting it to say what you want never mind the facts. I paid for that pension with blood and I'm still paying for it each and every day for the rest of my life so you can politely kiss where the light don't shine. Also, for someone not ashamed of His Country and His People, you sure say you are enough times.

[Swampman]

I'm ashamed of those who claim to be Native Americans who whine and clown for money.  They are not my people.  We work for a living.

[Spirithawk]

Seems your opinions change to suit your needs at the moment. Anyone that reads back over your posts can decide for themselves. Your words are there and self evident.

[Swampman]

Seems my ancestors were not hearded out of the mountains.  They stayed......We didn't feel like being sheep.

[Spirithawk]

Seems my ancestors were not hearded out of the mountains.  They stayed......We didn't feel like being sheep.

No, not all of the Anikituhwagi left on the Trail Where All Cried. So tell me, why is it you seem to insinuate that your personal ancestor's are the only ones that didn't? If that was directed at mine then it's another case of you speaking about something you know absolutely nothing about. As for those that did go, most were forced to at gun point. They had no choice. In comparison, only a few left by choice. Of those, the Ridge and Boudinot followers, many paid for signing away Anikituhwagi land with their lives according to the ancient Blood Law. I supose your ancestors were bullet proof? More likely they hid out in the hills like the other's that didn't go.  Don't even try to make it seem like they didn't go simply because they out fought the state militia. That dog don't hunt! Just another case of how, when you are caught with foot in mouth, you quickly change the subject and resort to baiting. Not just my opinion, something I quickly learned you are very well known for doing. Sorry, save your stink bait for the cafish. Since you don't seem to want to, I will get back to the original object of this thread. yes, I agree that many have become too reliant on the government. But for every one of those there is another who takes pride in being self suficient. Blanket statements, such as your's, do more to hide the truth than bring it out into the open.

[Swampman]

There is always a choice.  My ancestors stayed right there in the mountains, and they are still there.

[SHOOTALL]

In the book Little Tree ( i think) it was said those who stayed hid and were aided by whites or they would not have survived.