Ok now I have a brass question?

[DalesCarpentry]

I have traded my Remington 700 SPS Varmint 22-250 for a Remington 700 thumbhole VLS in a 308 caliber. I have decided I am going to buy Lapua brass for it. The reason being the brass comes completly preped,Very high quality and they say it can be reloaded more times than almost any other brass. It costs about $25.00 more per 100 but if it can be loaded more times and possibly give me tighter groups I don't mind paying a little more. In my line of work I learned a long time ago not to buy cheap tools and I I am kind of looking at it that way. It will be cheaper to buy quality now and not have to replace near as often. Well here is my question. while I was at Grafts and Sons web site looking for 308 Win. brass (trying to find the cheapest Lapua brass) I clicked on 308 Palma brass by mistake.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/20789                                                              This brass uses small rifle primers
instead of large rifle primers. Is that the only difference between the 2 different brass? If so why would this 308 round use small rifle primers? I am pretty new to reloading but this puzzles me and would like to know why. Thanks in advance and take care Dale

[JRiddle]

It's for long range shooting 800,900, and 1000 yard matches.  The small rifle primer is intended to tighten the groups vertically by reducing velocity spreads and standard deviations.
JR

[DalesCarpentry]

That is my goal. I traded for the 308 so I could one day shoot out to 1000 yards. I only have acess to a 500 yard range now but will be shooting out to 1000 in a year or 2. So should I consider buying the Palma brass? Thanks Dale

[DalesCarpentry]

I just found this on the net. It is interesting.
http://www.lapua.com/fileadmin/user_upload/esitteet/Lapua308WinPalmaCase2010.pdf
It seems to be the same round and same case except it has a small rifle primer. I see that to decap the primer they say you should use a smaller diameter decapping rod. I am now thinking this might be the brass I should buy. I am still shooting a factory barrel but I will shoot it out or change it next summer. Thanks Dale

[JRiddle]

Dale,
If you're wanting to go long with the 308's, this is worth reading...lot's of good info
http://www.6mmbr.com/308win.html
JR

[JRiddle]

I'm sure getting the palma brass wont hurt anything, I think it's made to pretty high tolerences,,which probably most all of Lapua's brass is.  I don't know that you'll get the 'full effect' of the brass without having a palma chamber.  Which basically is just tighter tolerences and a shorter throat, since they only shoot 155 grainers.  Once you fire that 308 brass in your Rem700 chamber, it's gonna be fireformed to that chamber whether it's palma brass or just regular 308win.  Just my two cents worth 
JR

[DalesCarpentry]

I'm sure getting the palma brass wont hurt anything, I think it's made to pretty high tolerences,,which probably most all of Lapua's brass is.  I don't know that you'll get the 'full effect' of the brass without having a palma chamber.  Which basically is just tighter tolerences and a shorter throat, since they only shoot 155 grainers.  Once you fire that 308 brass in your Rem700 chamber, it's gonna be fireformed to that chamber whether it's palma brass or just regular 308win.  Just my two cents worth  
JR

I am still in the middle of reading the link you posted and is great reading so far. I just can't get my damn printer to print it right now. I hate my printer. I see I still have a lot of reading to do on this. I just learned about the 308 Palma tonight so all is good. Thanks Dale

[trotterlg]

If you are shooting a factory barrel just go with some inexpensive brass or some once fired brass.  By the time you shoot out the factory barrel and put a good one on the rifle you will have used up the brass, plus, you will then have to resize it to fit the new chamber.  Just buy a bunch of inexpensive brass, sort it by weight and throw out the high 10% and low 10% and you will be money ahead and won't be able to tell the difference.  Putting super premium ammo through a factory barrel just isn't going to be worth the cost or pain.  While shooting you can also toss all the brass that produces flyers, this works for a lot of people.  But then I am a cheap old guy, if you have the bucks just go the the good stuff.  Larry

[DalesCarpentry]

If you are shooting a factory barrel just go with some inexpensive brass or some once fired brass.  By the time you shoot out the factory barrel and put a good one on the rifle you will have used up the brass, plus, you will then have to resize it to fit the new chamber.  Just buy a bunch of inexpensive brass, sort it by weight and throw out the high 10% and low 10% and you will be money ahead and won't be able to tell the difference.  Putting super premium ammo through a factory barrel just isn't going to be worth the cost or pain.  While shooting you can also toss all the brass that produces flyers, this works for a lot of people.  But then I am a cheap old guy, if you have the bucks just go the the good stuff.  Larry

I am pretty cheap at times too. I never could figure out why when I measure every grain of powder to a tenth of a grain and when I am at the range shooting I have a bullet land a good inch outside my group. Are you saying I should toss that piece of brass? Do you think it is just a bad piece of brass? This whole thing has just come up tonight so I have a lot of research to do because I have learned you can't believe(not meaning you at all) everyone on the net. I will take what I hear here along with what I read and come up with my own conclusion.

[trotterlg]

Brass is so cheap that it isn't worth not tossing it.  Brass is all about consistancy, good expensive brass is all the same, each piece has the same capacity and all that stuff.  You can sort cheap brass the same way, it just takes some more time and effort.  If you shoot a flyer, it could be the bullet but it could be the brass (never you), so just toss out the flyer brass and move on.  I think you will find this theory is valid, or at least believed to be valid by some.  If my gun throws a flyer for no good reason, I just toss the brass, it isn't worth the effort to give another try, life is too short to use bad stuff that is worth a dime.  Larry

[quickdtoo]

Nosler makes some pretty good brass.

Tim

http://www.nosler.com/brass/custom-brass.aspx

[DalesCarpentry]

Dale,
If you're wanting to go long with the 308's, this is worth reading...lot's of good info
http://www.6mmbr.com/308win.html
JR

I just wanted to thank you for that article. I just finished reading it and learned alot from it. It really is everything you wanted to know about the 308 Win. If any of you have any other good articles on the 308 Win. please post a link because I would like to read them. Thanks and take care Dale

[DannoBoone]

Speaking of "flyers", I've noticed that differences in neck tension can cause a bullet to impact out of a group. Am now
separating rounds by how easy/hard it is to seat the bullets. I've had this problem with virgin brass, brass needing annealing
and annealed brass, from everything cheap (Rem) to expensive (Norma). I've found Norma brass to be harder than most
while I've used Lapua only to size .223's to Tac 20. I preferred IMI over Lapua for this, but have not been able to get it
for years.

I've also found that if one takes case prep to the point of anal, neither Norma or Lapua is quite done. I've found variances in
primer pocket depth and the case mouths need to be touched up with both types. A VLD reamer needs to come to their
rescue, and there is not much less of a burring on the outside of the case mouth than the cheapy cases.