You far right people, what would your perfect country look like?

[powderman]

BEERBELLY. Right you are, I've seen it too. Some will just hand their card over to somebody for 1/2 of what it's worth then they give the card back when the moneys is gone. POWDERMAN. 

[billy_56081]

How much wealth and power is enough? 10 million; a 100 million, 1 billion dollars ??...??...?? Money=influence.  Flat tax is the ultimate regressive tax and feudalism...kiss the middle class good-bye forever; disregard the propaganda. Progressive taxation is one of the only ways the common man can keep any 'influence and power' in an alleged Democracy.


..TM7
.

Wealth is not taxed income is. Are you jealous that someone has more than you so you think the government should pushish them by taking thier money?

[Haywire Haywood]

Yes, good question.  How much is enough.  Better question is who gets to determine that and why.  If I am Bill Gates smart and have the wherewithal to make a billion dollars, why does a 90 IQ ditch digger get to tell me that I have too much?

Ian

[skarke]

Over 90% of millionaires in the US are first generation (self made) millionaires.  Why risk bankruptcy, tort action, government regulation, crappy employee attitudes, etc., if there is limits on rewards for furthering his business?  America used to give credit and praise to entrepreneurs, and their spirit.  Now, the attitude goes something like this, "Oh, he's driving a BMW, I wonder what poor person he stepped on to get that fine ride?  Let's sue him.  We'll win because everybody on our current jury pools knows that if he is rich, he MUST be evil!!!!"

This country should strive for equal opportunity, not equal outcome.  We should make being poor uncomfortable for people otherwise fit to work, and we should make people suffering from ailments beyond their control (physical disability, mental retardation, etc.) extremely comfortable and well cared for.

Welfare should be time limited, drug tested, and accompanied by skills training, or be unavailable.

[nomosendero]

Over 90% of millionaires in the US are first generation (self made) millionaires.  Why risk bankruptcy, tort action, government regulation, crappy employee attitudes, etc., if there is limits on rewards for furthering his business?  America used to give credit and praise to entrepreneurs, and their spirit.  Now, the attitude goes something like this, "Oh, he's driving a BMW, I wonder what poor person he stepped on to get that fine ride?  Let's sue him.  We'll win because everybody on our current jury pools knows that if he is rich, he MUST be evil!!!!"

This country should strive for equal opportunity, not equal outcome.  We should make being poor uncomfortable for people otherwise fit to work, and we should make people suffering from ailments beyond their control (physical disability, mental retardation, etc.) extremely comfortable and well cared for.

Welfare should be time limited, drug tested, and accompanied by skills training, or be unavailable.

Amen to all of that!!  P2## on "Progressive crap"

[williamlayton]

TM
I have seen no such breakdown as you seem to.
Where is your breakdown coming from?
Blessings

[Haywire Haywood]

TM, There is no prerequisite for folk in congress to have smarts.  I wish there was.  I wish all candidates for state and federal government had to take an IQ test and unless they score 120 or better, no dice.

Ian

[powderman]

TM
I have seen no such breakdown as you seem to.
Where is your breakdown coming from?
Blessings



HEH. WILLIAM, I'd love to answer that, but I better not. POWDERMAN. 

[SHOOTALL]

Yes, good question.  How much is enough.  Better question is who gets to determine that and why.  If I am Bill Gates smart and have the wherewithal to make a billion dollars, why does a 90 IQ ditch digger get to tell me that I have too much?

Ian

Ditch diggers don't make up tax law, nor should wealthy folks .... somebody with some smarts in government does as a matter of fair policy and benefit of we-the-people.


Skarke...

...Flat Tax, although on the surface appearing fair and equal is essentially a Trojan Horse, and will be the death of the middle class once and for all, and will turn the USA into a feudal rich-poor state. By the Flat Tax proposals groups under a certain income pay no tax..i.e. working poor and non-working. Wealthy folk have incomes mostly from, insurances, capital gains, and dividends..these are not taxed as well, and so-called income is just taxed at a fixed rate say 17%....(in fact capital gains is only taxed at 15% under current 'progressive' tax codes, as Wall Streeters now have bonuses classified). Interest payments on homes are not deductible, too, or investment expenses for business. Net result is a simplified tax code that ends the income tax industry once and for all....that is true. However, since the poor escape taxes, AND the wealthy escape taxes...this puts taxation squarely on the shoulders of the middle class,,,which it is currently (and all too much already I would suggest). Housing deductions are ended, too. Essentially, the middle class gets to subsidize the poor and wealthy. Sooo, what a Flat Tax does is create a permanent under class and wealthy class with no middle class. The wealth class continues to ascend to dizzying heights while the middle class spins it's wheels and eventually descends into poverty with no chance of aspiring up the ladder....Think about it. Flat tax and other such schemes are propaganda of the influence-wealth class to further run away with the entire picnic basket.  If you like violent revolutions create a flat tax....Think about it.


..TM7



.

Wild this is much different than what was presented back in college , but that was 1975 before the libs got bold . Funny thing is 17% was what was suggested and (sit down) No cooprate taxs at all.

[Dixie Dude]

Corporate taxes are always passed on to the customer.  Let me tell you about Natural gas.  Drillers who drill the well sell the gas to a pipeline company.  It is taxed as profit for the driller (passes on the tax to the pipeline company).  Pipeline company sells the gas to a local distribution company.  His profit is taxed so it is passed on to the distribution company.  Distribution company sells it to the customers.  His tax is passed on to the customer.  From well head to producer it is about 5 times what the well head driller sold it for, mostly in tax increases.  Gasoline is the same way.  Farmers get taxed on their cotton profits, cotton fabric manufacturers get taxed on their profit, sewing manufacturers get taxed on their profits, department stores get taxed when they sell you the clothes.  Either have a flat tax on personal income only, or have a sales tax as things are sold down the line.  Sales tax would be like a flat tax.  A company might want to use its income to reinvest in new equipment or pay its workers a better wage.  You pay the tax only when you buy something.  Food could be exempt except at restaurants.  You don't have to eat out.   

[SHOOTALL]

any profit from any source is taxed in a flat rate system. Why do you think otherwise ? Cooperations are leaving because they can make and keep more profit in other places , its called being business savy . Taxing a company is nothing but a hidden tax on the people. Whats wrong with a system where you know your tax before you make a income ? Its better than a system where your income is taken and you have to give reasons to get it back. I don't believe any of the short commings are based on facts .

[Dixie Dude]

I say we must tax all imported goods at least 20%.  If China let their currency float, the Chinese made products would automatically go up about 20%.  We also need to tax imported oil per barrel and not tax American produced oil.  Algae may be the future of oil, but the government is not encouraging its production, because they are against "big oil".  The big oil companies are the ones who would make the Algae oil.  They can't even get a refinery built in the US now because of environmental regulations.  They have built new ones across the border in Mexico and in Canada and we are importing the refined gasoline and diesel.  The libs all want us to drive electric golf cart cars and live in an 800 sq ft house powered by solar.  I for one, don't want to do that.  If I want to drive my Expedition, I will. 

[SHOOTALL]

Shootall: 

Cooperations are leaving because they can make and keep more profit in other places , its called being business savy

Yes...it may be considered 'business savy'....it may also be considered traitorous. What your saying is there is no hope for American big business to remain here.  No wonder they want a Flat Tax which excludes income from foreign sources....a globalist ieconomics idea.  Corps and individuals indeed know their tax obligations beforehand...they also know how to escape their obligations. I haven't overpayed Fed Tax in many years thanx to my accountant....I do not like making no interest loans to the government. Yes, it is true that our current system needs reform and streamlining, but I maintain it should remain entirely 'progressive' for the sake of fairness and economics. Regressive taxation schemes are purely feudal and unfair. I rank the Flat-Fair Tax movement up there with the recent Healthcare reform boondoogle....watch out..!!


..TM7
.

Pure BS , who said no tax on imports ? Traitorus , right why didn't you scream that when the auto makers were selling us junk ? Our govt. allows people to set up shop in this country and not pay taxes for 7 years but it will not allow Americans the same. Now that's traitor .

[mcwoodduck]

I say we must tax all imported goods at least 20%.  If China let their currency float, the Chinese made products would automatically go up about 20%.  We also need to tax imported oil per barrel and not tax American produced oil.  Algae may be the future of oil, but the government is not encouraging its production, because they are against "big oil".  The big oil companies are the ones who would make the Algae oil.  They can't even get a refinery built in the US now because of environmental regulations.  They have built new ones across the border in Mexico and in Canada and we are importing the refined gasoline and diesel.  The libs all want us to drive electric golf cart cars and live in an 800 sq ft house powered by solar.  I for one, don't want to do that.  If I want to drive my Expedition, I will. 

Unfortunatly tarrifs do not protect the American worker.
Much the opposite.  All a Tarriff does is raise all prices, not the targeted goods.
With higher prices less is consumed and then less is produced. 
With less being produced more jobs are driven off shore and we are in a deeper ressession. 
Hey just what the Communists want.
The best thing to do is reduce government restrictions and produce what the people want not what Government tells them to make, where to dig, what to dig.
What really get me is if the green idiots really thought about it they would want everything made in the US.

[SHOOTALL]

Macwoodduck, Tarrifs have a use when other markets don't play fair but your post is right about getting out the way and letting us compete.

[mcwoodduck]

History has shown Americans can make it Better, cheaper, and cleaner.
We have also shown with knowledge and consumer choices we do not need regulations.
Ducks Unlimited and Dolphin Safe Tuna are proof of it.
When swamps were being drained Ducks Unlimited formed and Bought the swamps and kept them,
When thousands of Dolphins were being killed in drift nets people said we only want tuna cought in rod and reel in little Johnny's lunch.
No laws were needed not regulations.  People using thier money to change the markets.
Our country is the mother of invention, the free sprit that made us what we are.
The silly rules, regulations, Green Morons that think they know how best to run your company or do your job never having been in the field, and the ones that think they are intitled to an EQUAL or Greater share then the people that took the risk to make the product/ comapny/ or service, are what has choked our economy.  The silly laws that some yuts that is not qualified to be the city dog catcher is now a Senator and is voting or worse writting laws on how to run the US economy.  Look at the Medical, banking, realestate or Other crisis you can trace it's origins to some dolt making a law.
I still think we should have an Economics test before you can vote in the senate.
Don't pass the test, can't vote.

[Dixie Dude]

Free trade is fine, but if a country is artificially holding down their currency, or they are subsidizing an industry to drive ours out of business, then yes slap a tarriff, at least equivilent to the artificial price. China is subsidizing their steel industry to drive ours out of business right now.  China is also artificially holding down their currency.  China has no corporate income tax, no social security, no work week laws, ect.  Also, by putting a tarriff on imported oil from OPEC nations, we can break their stranglehold.  If China only allowed their currency to float, I've read that half our trade deficit would disappear with them.  Also, if we didn't import oil, that is half our total trade deficit.  We need to get a balanced trade or have more coming into this country for us to turn around.  Dealing with China and the oil imports would go a long ways in improving our economy.  Hard choices, but simple solutions.  Money floats or tarriff, their choice.  Less oil form OPEC, more produced here.  Switching fleets to natural gas would cut 40% of the imported oil.  

[SHOOTALL]

Any income that an American would be taxed on the flat rate no matter where he made it . And I mentioned the cars because its just as much a traitor to sell your countrymen junk at a top price and profit from it.
 And yes on flating taxes but still under the we take it and you prove you should get back rules it proves nothing. Consider if you knew your exact tax bill with every bit of your income as you made it. You could plan and invest as you wanted in a more secure mannor. And where do you get the idea the rich don't pay ?

[SHOOTALL]

With flat rate it could all be reformed ! And your ideas on the IRS are very creative to say the least .

[mcwoodduck]

TM7,
I agree with you to a point.
Flat taxes will effect all.
Flat taxes will get rid of the social design that Congress has that has skewed the free markets.
Flat taxes will eliminate the loopholes.
Flat Tax rates will allow upward and downward movements of poeple.
Somehting the Wealth class does not want.  People like the kennedy's always want to be in control of wealth and there for in power.
Death taxes and the loopholes involved with it make sure noone can accumulate wealth but makes sure those with is keep it.
The Death tax is what killed the family farms in the mid west in the 80's  Remember "Farm Aid" it was to come up with $ to pay death taxes on farms.
The IRS is just a collection agency.
What I find funny is some of the laws/ rules conflict and if you get advise from the IRS to do your taxes, it can hurt you in an audit.

[Dixie Dude]

I prefer to get rid of income tax altogether.  Have a national sales tax.  So you want to help the poor, leave it off food except restaurants.  Rich will definately pay more when they buy expensive items.   Exempt primary homes.  Exempt education expenses.  I've heard a 1% national sales tax would bring in more than the income tax.  You can keep your money, save it, invest it, make it grow with the economy, then when you spend it you pay tax.  I also think the sales tax would hurt the rich more than the poor since what they buy is more expensive, like cars, boats, 2nd homes, etc. 

[SHOOTALL]

If our money can't be controled by govt we will not be allowed to have it , plastic is on the way to replace cash anyway.

[Oldshooter]

Heck, even the crooks and drugdealers would pay taxes if it was a sales tax. Ya know the "bling" and the "cribs" and the "rides"

[SHOOTALL]

Drug dealers , what will they do when cash is gone.

[mcwoodduck]

Drug dealers , what will they do when cash is gone.

Easy they will just strong arm a local store to run the Plastic and to credit their plastic.
Suprised it is not already happening.

[SHOOTALL]

But you forget by then the store will have a govt. control on inventory with set pricing and every thing must match 

[mcwoodduck]

But you forget by then the store will have a govt. control on inventory with set pricing and every thing must match 

You are not far off.
In coin laundries, they state matches your water and gas bill and estamates how many washes and drys that should be and sends an income bill.

[MGMorden]

But you forget by then the store will have a govt. control on inventory with set pricing and every thing must match 

You are not far off.
In coin laundries, they state matches your water and gas bill and estamates how many washes and drys that should be and sends an income bill.

A lot of credit card merchants are doing detailed transactions now.  The transaction sent back to the bank contains details of all the items in the transaction.  It's good for businesses, as you can audit usage of a company credit card that way and make sure in appropriate items aren't being purchased.   For regular people the privacy aspect of it is somewhat worrying.  Not so much from government, but from insurance companies.  I'm sure the day isn't far off when your health insurance premiums will go up because you've been buying too much bacon and ham lately.

That said, privacy concerns or no, debit cards are too convenient for me to not use .   I typically go months between occasions when I have real honest-to-goodness physical money in my pocket.

[BBF]

But you forget by then the store will have a govt. control on inventory with set pricing and every thing must match  

..................  I typically go months between occasions when I have real honest-to-goodness physical money in my pocket.

 About the same here.

I'm trying to remember how we managed to get through a weekend without Debit Cards or ATM's

[SwampThing762]

I am going to add my input to this thread which has had some good ideas.

In my perfect country, the president will be a man elected on his principles and not party affiliation.  This country's political and legislative systems have been corrupted by party labels, and as such I would have party affiliations removed from the ballot forms.  This measure would ensure people truly think before casting their vote rather than choosing a D or R.   Also,  I would also have certain ethics rules for the presidency similar to those that apply to Congress, in efforts to prevent malignment and slanderings of persons, professions, or organizations.

The military of my perfect country will be strong and have clear mandates as to their duties and rules of engagement.  The ROE will simply state if someone fires on you or brandishes any weapon at you, shoot to kill.    Too many of our soldiers have died needlessly.   I would also authorize a Federal Militia Act to establish citizen defense organizations that can support the military and National Guard units.     Service in one of the three organizations would be encouraged, but not required.

Immigration policies would be very strong and rigidly enforced.    The borders along Canada and Mexico will be closed with the exception of selected access points.    Federal laws would then be enacted to specify deceitfully and unlawfully entering this country will constitute an act of espionage, punishable by death.   All persons entering this country legally to work as day laborers or for long term employment or wishing to become citizens shall be interviewed at the border and enrolled into Census records with name and occupational information with the intention of assistance in finding work.   Private companies will be encouraged by statute and contract to employ immigrant workers who come legally to America.

Social services programs will be left to the states as those rights are enumerated to the states under the 10th Amendment.   The federal Departments of Energy, Education, Labor, Transportation, and Health and Human Services will be abolished.  They are not needed and are a drain on Federal resources.    Federal food stamps and welfare will be abolished.  If you are able to work, get off your ass and find a job!   I would allow the programs of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid to remain but would be under jurisdiction of the Treasury Department.  These three programs would be in place for the elderly population and those people who have suffered traumatic injury (legs blown off, etc.) that prevents them from having means to support themselves and are high healthcare risks.   Regulations regarding charitable donations and organizations shall be enhanced to provide more capacity and reward for helping the less fortunate.

Educational policies shall be left to the States, it is not a Federal matter.   Enough said.

Tax policy is a tricky subject.  Personally, I believe in taxes on consumption rather than income.    I would implement a Federal sales tax on all purchases within and across state lines of 9%.    This would include Internet sales as well.    All sales tax exemptions would be lifted from grocery items.    Sin taxes would remain intact on alcohol tobacco and and other items regulated by vice taxes.  The IRS would be abolished as well as personal and corporate income taxes.    The gasoline tax will remain intact for highway maintenance.   A tariff and customs system will be in place for imported foreign goods.   Also, the Constitution will have a Balanced Budget Amendment and will be reinforced by an Enumerated Powers Act.     

The economy of my perfect country shall be largely deregulated and the market allowed to govern and correct itself.  Antitrust laws shall be placed as well as anti-TARP laws.  If a company fails, it fails.   Surviving companies in an industry will absorb the market vacancy and its resources and capital.   I believe in economic Darwinism and that a man's wealth comes from the strength of his back and the sweat of his brow.     Let the market determine the winners and losers.  I also favor tax programs that keep American jobs in America.

Special legislative programs added and removed.   I could go on all day, but I will choose only a few for this post.  The first item to go is nationalized healthcare.    My health care and concerns is nobody's business but mine, and the federal government has no enumerated constitutional mandate.     I would also see the McCain-Feingold Act repealed.    I would also have the Wall Street reform act repealed, as well as the credit card reform act repealed.  The CC Reform Act I would replace with a standard set of federal financial and usury laws that would establish maximum interest rates and grievance protocols without imposing a burden on the financial sector.    Laws that I would see added are States Rights Recognition Act, enhanced Federal Firearms Freedom Act, Federal Energy Independence Act (legislation toward making America energy independent across the board and special incentives to work towards energy independence).

Foreign policy for me is pretty simple.   Keep our nose out of affairs of other nations and encourage trade relationships  with our global partners.  I also favor withdrawing from the UN and kicking them the hell out of America since they hate us anyway.

Trade policy goes with foreign policy.   Establish trade systems and tariff rates to govern those relationships.

That is my ideal of a perfect country.  You succeed or fail by the level of your own industry. take care of your own, live and let live.

Sorry for the long diatribe but the OP did ask my ideas.

ST762