What is the heavest bullet you can shoot out of a 1 in 12" barrel?

[DalesCarpentry]

I have trade off my 22-250 for a Remington 700 VLS 308 Win. I have been spending some time looking around on the Internet for different type bullets I would like to shoot out of it. I think I am going to start with the Sierra 155 grain Palma HPBT Match bullets. I am still wondering what the heavest bullet you can shoot out of it. I kind of think with a 1 in 12" twist barrel that a 168 would be about it. Am I right or will it shoot a 180 grain? Also could you guys recomend a good weight and well built bullet for White Tail Deer? Thanks Dale

[necchi]

Well if yer gonna shoot Sierra Match bullets too tune and get to know your rifle,,it's not a big step to move to the Seirra GameKings for game.
I'm shooting a 308 w/1-10 twist and it doesn't like 150-155's at all I had to step up to the 165-168 for decent groups so I'm guessing your slower twist will be happy with the 150-155's,,personal opinion, anything bigger than the 168 is kinda un-neccesary for White tail

[shot1]

43 to 44 grs IMR 4895 and a 150 gr Sierra SP or Nosler ballistic tip works well on deer.

If you really want a deer thumper. 46 grs IMR 4895 and a 125 Nosler ballistic tip. I have been using this load for whitetail deer for the past few years. Killed between 20 & 30 from 50 to 300 yards and have not had a single one take a step after taking the 125 BT to the front shoulder.

You should be able to shoot a 180 gr bullet in your 12 twist. 

[GH1]

Is twist rate the only factor to consider or does bore size come into play aw well?
GH1

[Dill45]

Twist rate in combination with bore size will tell you not only how heavy of a bullet can be shot, but how long it can be as well.  The longer or heavier a bullet is, the more twist you will need to get it going.

http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_2-3_Twist.htm

Scroll down to about the middle of the page, it gives you the tables on twist rates.

[trotterlg]

It really has to do with the length and diameter of the bullet and how many Revolutions per second it is rotating.  Velocity has very much to do with getting a bullet stable.  A bullet that will not be stable out of a .223 at maximum speed may be more than stable out of a 22-250 at max velocity with the same twist rate barrel.  If you have trouble getting a bullet stable just try driving it a little faster and see if that helps.  Larry

[DalesCarpentry]

Well if yer gonna shoot Sierra Match bullets too tune and get to know your rifle,,it's not a big step to move to the Seirra GameKings for game.
I'm shooting a 308 w/1-10 twist and it doesn't like 150-155's at all I had to step up to the 165-168 for decent groups so I'm guessing your slower twist will be happy with the 150-155's,,personal opinion, anything bigger than the 168 is kinda un-neccesary for White tail

Yea the Sierra 155 grain HPBT bullets will be for punching paper. I just may go to the Game Kings for a Deer bullet seeing as they make them also in 155 grains and should shoot simular to the HPBT bullets. Thanks Dale

[ole 5 hole group]

Paper punching with a 308 and a 168 grain matchking is usually done with a 1:14 twist.  You really have to be unlucky to get a 1:14 barrel that will not handle a 168 grain.  A 1:12 twist is very safe for the 168 grain and is close to the edge with a 180/190 matchking but I'm betting it'll be just fine- 200 grain would be pushing it tho.

[DalesCarpentry]

Paper punching with a 308 and a 168 grain matchking is usually done with a 1:14 twist.  You really have to be unlucky to get a 1:14 barrel that will not handle a 168 grain.  A 1:12 twist is very safe for the 168 grain and is close to the edge with a 180/190 matchking but I'm betting it'll be just fine- 200 grain would be pushing it tho.

So you feel it should be able to shoot 180 Match Kings then. I spoke with the guy I am getting it off tonight and he say it shoots 175 grain bullets very well. I am pretty excited to be getting this rifle I am looking forward to doing some long range shooting with it. Thanks Dale

[shot1]

Between the two 180 MK and 175 MK the 175 MK is a much better bullet. It has much better numbers than the 180.

[simplicity]

I've been doing something very similar as well I have VTR 24" un-ported(1-12 twist) and it shoots 168 match (hornady and seirras) very well but won't shoot 165's to beat hell don't know why it's a difference of a.250 center to center group to a 1.5 center to center. It also shoots 175 MK very well to usually I have been getting right around .200 center to center out of it. I've tryed 180 gr ballistic tips and it won't shoot them worth a darn. For hunting I got some 168gr berger vld's and they shoot great and they're a hunting bullet to boot. I know they are a bit exspensive $43 for 100 but if you look at accubonds that go for $30 for 50, or in fact any barnes bullet they aren't to bad. and I only use them for hunting application. I use the hornady 168's and the 175mk's for punching paper. I've found that in my rifle IMR4895 shoots better then anything else I've tried so I stick with it. Also as far as the twist goes the slower twist ie 1-12 stablises the longer match bullets better then a 1-10 but the 1-10 works better when used with shorter hunting bullets of the heavier weight. PLus for woodchuck fun the 1-12 shoots the hornady 110grn vmax very well to. I know that kinda really goes against what that chart stated but I have more then one rifle that proves alot of that chart to be wrong, maybe I just have the oddball rifles of the bunch. Hope this helps.

[DalesCarpentry]

I've been doing something very similar as well I have VTR 24" un-ported(1-12 twist) and it shoots 168 match (hornady and seirras) very well but won't shoot 165's to beat hell don't know why it's a difference of a.250 center to center group to a 1.5 center to center. It also shoots 175 MK very well to usually I have been getting right around .200 center to center out of it. I've tryed 180 gr ballistic tips and it won't shoot them worth a darn. For hunting I got some 168gr berger vld's and they shoot great and they're a hunting bullet to boot. I know they are a bit exspensive $43 for 100 but if you look at accubonds that go for $30 for 50, or in fact any barnes bullet they aren't to bad. and I only use them for hunting application. I use the hornady 168's and the 175mk's for punching paper. I've found that in my rifle IMR4895 shoots better then anything else I've tried so I stick with it. Also as far as the twist goes the slower twist ie 1-12 stablises the longer match bullets better then a 1-10 but the 1-10 works better when used with shorter hunting bullets of the heavier weight. PLus for woodchuck fun the 1-12 shoots the hornady 110grn vmax very well to. I know that kinda really goes against what that chart stated but I have more then one rifle that proves alot of that chart to be wrong, maybe I just have the oddball rifles of the bunch. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the heads up on the 110 grain V-Max's. I do a lot of Groundhog hunting and was wondering if I would be able to get them to shoot out of this rifle. I will give them a try and see how they shoot. Heck if they shoot well enough I would prefer to shoot paper with them rather than a heavier bullet just due to the extra recoil you get from heavier bullets. Thanks Dale

[necchi]

  but I have more then one rifle that proves alot of that chart to be wrong, maybe I just have the oddball rifles of the bunch.

Problem with that chart is it's based on the Greenhill formula, and while it's good as a general guide, modern ballistics wheren't considered possible at the time. It was designed and applied to Navel cannon.

[the jigger]

IMHO shot1 is spot on. My 308 deer load is 49.5gr of Varget and 125gr NBT. Every one that I have shot with this load has had 100% penetration. Eastern whitetail deer are thin-skinned. How many do you suppose have been taken with 100gr 6mm or 257 bullets?
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

[DalesCarpentry]

I think you guys have just talked me into the White Tail Deer bullet I am going to try to use if it shoots out of my rifle good. For those of you that have not read the reviews of this bullet you should. It does sound like a deer stomper for sure. Here is a link to the bullet and reviews of it over at Midway.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=741609
I heard a fellow in one of the reviews using it on Groundhogs also. I shoot a bunch of them aroud here and is my favorite pass time durring the summer. It would be nice to have one bullet to do both jobs. Thanks Dale

[Larry Gibson]

The 12" twist is the standard twist for the .308W cartridge.  It is the twist used by Winchester when they introduced the cartridge and the twist used by the military in 7.62 M14s, M21s and MGs.  The 12" twist will easily stabilize a 200 gr SP out of a 20" barrel and will stabilized a 220 RN out of a 22" barrel.  Of course the longer the barrel the higher the velocity so stabilization is not an issue there.  The 12" twist also is optimum for the 175 gr MK which is a better LR bullet than the Palma.  The actual measurement of a bullets BC in flight is the best measurement of stability.  I've done considerable testing of .308Ws with 10, 12 and 14" twist barrels.  The 12" twist gives the highest BCs (I measure them via an Oehler M43) with bullets of 150 - 180 gr bullets.  The 10" twist gives better BCs with heavier bullets and the 14" twist gives better BC with lighter weight bullets.  The 175 gr MK over a 45 gr charge of Varget in WW cases out of my 26" barrel M70 target rifle with 12" twist gets BCs in the .525 - .530 range.  In both the 10 and 14" twists the BC for the same bullet/load run .475 - .490.  That is a difference that is going to show up at long range; the .525 BC bullets are more stabile and are more accurate and less wind sensitive.  If you want to shoot the lighter weight bullets go with a 26, preferebly 28-30" barrel with a 13 or 14" twist.  These are referred to as "Palma Barrels".  However, if you want the best of both worlds in a sporter package go with a 26" barrel with a 12" twist.

Larry Gibson

[DalesCarpentry]

The 12" twist is the standard twist for the .308W cartridge.  It is the twist used by Winchester when they introduced the cartridge and the twist used by the military in 7.62 M14s, M21s and MGs.  The 12" twist will easily stabilize a 200 gr SP out of a 20" barrel and will stabilized a 220 RN out of a 22" barrel.  Of course the longer the barrel the higher the velocity so stabilization is not an issue there.  The 12" twist also is optimum for the 175 gr MK which is a better LR bullet than the Palma.  The actual measurement of a bullets BC in flight is the best measurement of stability.  I've done considerable testing of .308Ws with 10, 12 and 14" twist barrels.  The 12" twist gives the highest BCs (I measure them via an Oehler M43) with bullets of 150 - 180 gr bullets.  The 10" twist gives better BCs with heavier bullets and the 14" twist gives better BC with lighter weight bullets.  The 175 gr MK over a 45 gr charge of Varget in WW cases out of my 26" barrel M70 target rifle with 12" twist gets BCs in the .525 - .530 range.  In both the 10 and 14" twists the BC for the same bullet/load run .475 - .490.  That is a difference that is going to show up at long range; the .525 BC bullets are more stabile and are more accurate and less wind sensitive.  If you want to shoot the lighter weight bullets go with a 26, preferebly 28-30" barrel with a 13 or 14" twist.  These are referred to as "Palma Barrels".  However, if you want the best of both worlds in a sporter package go with a 26" barrel with a 12" twist.

Larry Gibson

Thank you for your very detailed answer. When I do get a chance to shoot long range I will play around with some 175 MK'S. The rifle I have traded for has a 26" barrel in the 1 in 12" so I should be in very good shape to shoot those bullets. Thanks Dale