Author Topic: FINALLY Found A 500 (Read 1070 times)

pruhdlr · « **on:** September 30, 2010, 05:31:50 AM »

Finally found a 500 and it's on it's way. Now I have a few questions if I may.

* I will be reloading for this weapon. I plan to use the med weight bullets(350-400gr)and was wondering if H110 will give me the medium velocities ?? This,relizeing that with H-110 you gotta use a full charge.
* Is a Handi scope base strong enough given that I will be using a small scope or a smallish red dot sight ??
* Is there a Limbsaver that will fit the stock even if it is cut down to a LOP of 13.25" ??
* I have a 45-70 Handi that has a LOP of 13.25" and the bbl has been chopped to 18". I shoot near max loads outta it. What will the recoil be like compairing this to the 500,set up the same way with med-hot'ish loads ??

Thanks for your responses.---SAWMAN

Spanky · « **Reply #1 on:** September 30, 2010, 05:46:45 AM »

Just curious... why did you go for the 500 if you already have a 45-70?

The scope base is the same for all handi's so there's no problem with the 500.
You might try a small slip on limbsaver or get a grind to fit pad.

Someone who has a 500 will have to help out with the other questions.

Spanky

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** September 30, 2010, 05:50:10 AM »

Congrats on the new Handi!

Recoil pads are pretty well covered in the FAQs. As Spanky said, the factory base will work fine when properly mounted per the FAQs, I've got nearly 200 rounds of heavy loads thru mine with a Nikon Prostaff 2-7x32 shotgun scope on it with no problems.

Tim

pruhdlr · « **Reply #3 on:** September 30, 2010, 07:24:29 AM »

Thanks guys. Will re-read the FAQ's. Was just wondering if there was anything that I was not awhare of that might be coming at me that some of the 500 owners might have expieranced.

As stated,will be reloading for it as I do another 14 chamberings and have quite a bit of H110 on hand. Would like to continue to use that if possible. Also have heard that CCI350's were the primer to use.

Hornady vs Starline brass ?? One better than the other or 'bout the same ?? Will definately take a look at the longer eye relief scopes. ---SAWMAN

Dill45 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 30, 2010, 12:20:44 PM »

As far as recoil goes...the 500 will recoil quicker and a bit harder compared to the slower push of the 45-70. The 500 uses quicker powders than the 45-70 and thus the acceleration is a bit quicker feeling more like a quick jab than a push. I found that the muzzle doesn't rise as much on the 500 compared to the 45-70, but that's my personally experience. With the shorter barrel you might have a bit more recoil, I'm not sure though. Mines the standard length barrel.

As far as powders go, what do you define as medium? H110 is for full house loads, DO NOT REDUCE H110. It has some of the highest velocities out there, next to Lil'Gun. A quicker powder with a lighter charge would work best for a middle of the road deal. I personally use Long Shot for middle loads. I can push a 400gr lead slug at 1400-1500 FPS compared to the full house of nearly 1800 (It can be pushed harder, but I've found this to be the sweet spot accuracy wise). For lighter loads I turn to trail boss, 14.5gr's behind the same lead slug does around 1000 FPS and the recoil is almost nonexistent. There is no problem is using H110, it will just be a hot load. In fact some of my most accurate loads with the 500 have been with H110.

As far as primers go, Large Rifle is what new brass is designed for. When the cartridge originally came out it was using Large Pistol primers, but they changed in 04-05 I believe. So as long as you're using new ammo/brass, they would be using Large Rifle primers.

Edit: As far as brass goes, I've heard Hornady is a bit thinner than Starline but I haven't really checked myself to confirm that. I use both Hornady and Starline, but keep them separated. The Hornady's are into their 7th reloading (all hot) and the Starline are into their 5th (all hot) and neither have any stress marks on them.

tacklebury · « **Reply #5 on:** September 30, 2010, 01:07:56 PM »

Quote from: pruhdlr on September 30, 2010, 07:24:29 AM

Thanks guys. Will re-read the FAQ's. Was just wondering if there was anything that I was not awhare of that might be coming at me that some of the 500 owners might have expieranced.
As stated,will be reloading for it as I do another 14 chamberings and have quite a bit of H110 on hand. Would like to continue to use that if possible. Also have heard that CCI350's were the primer to use. Hornady vs Starline brass ?? One better than the other or 'bout the same ?? Will definately take a look at the longer eye relief scopes. ---SAWMAN

I didn't like the heavy H110 loads in my .45 colt. I started loading up using Reloader7 for my BC .45 Colt and have been getting stellar results. RL7 works well in straight wall cartridges as long as the barrel is longer than 14". Your only gray area is that there isn't a specific starting spot, however, since RL7 isn't sensitive to lower loads, ie. I load from 34.3 to 52 in my .45-70 with it, you can just use the same starting charge of 25 gr. as the one which has been proven safe in the .45 colt. The .50 is a good bit more voluminous case, so it will most likely work up to a much higher max. As you sound like an experienced reloader, working up a load is probably nothing new for you.

Anyway, with the slower burning rifle powder, the .45 Colt is literally transformed. Instead of shoulder busting H-110 loads, you can get very good and even much better velocities without all the kick. For me I also like the fact that I only stock 3 powders total and reload for all my cartridges. Unique, RL7 and H-110, and I only use the H-110 for flatter trajectory in my 5.5" Blackhawk using Loads developed from Linebaugh's starting charges. The is the article that made me decide to try the RL7 in the new waters. Enjoy.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

pruhdlr · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2010, 02:59:30 AM »

Another question if I may.........
I have a plastic stock "layin' around" and was wondering if it would handle the repeated recoil of the <400gr bullets outta the 500, that was loaded to ......saaaaaay......80% of it's potential ??

To answer the "why did you go for the 500 if you already have a 45-70?" question.......well

?? ---->
* I happen to like Handi's
* I happen to like the 500S&W chambering
* I am a continuos "tinker'er"
* I suspect that I will only pass this way once
* I have more money than GOD and I gotta spend it on something

If that question is to "debate" the 500 vs 45-70 thing........I give,you win. ---SAWMAN

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2010, 12:53:45 PM »

Like others have said, the recoil is a little sharper, or snappy, than the 45-70. I have loaded H110 from the middle of the published Hodgdon data and the results were pretty good with 385s and the recoil not too bad. Lately, I mostly use Lil Gun in just on the hot side of moderate loads for the Hornady FTX. Pretty accurate. Have also used 4227 with 375 grain cast performance bullets. All pretty good. Lil Gun is my favorite. Mine is a shorty now - light to carry and a blast to shoot. You probably don't gain much in velocity beyond 16.5 inches of barrel anyway in this cal. Enjoy.

Big Blue · « **Reply #8 on:** October 03, 2010, 01:20:45 PM »

I wanted to go with cast bullets so I'm using Cast Performance 440gr. over Lil'Gun. Mine is also chopped to 16.5". Recoil is more of a punch and less of the push you would associate with the 45/70. I added a Limbsaver recoil pad and use Dednutz Game Reaper scope mount with a Leupold 3X scope. I also own a 45/70 and enjoy shooting both guns.
Don

pruhdlr · « **Reply #9 on:** October 03, 2010, 01:40:07 PM »

Thanks for the info/replys folks.

My bbl is going down to 18". For me it is....#1 handiness and #2 balance. especially with the stock trimmed to a 13.00-13.25" LOP.

May I ask sir,what Leupold are you using ?? Didn't know they made a 3X. Been hashin' over what scope/sight to use. #1 is something that will stay outta my eye socket. #2 is everything else. Mainly something for close range. This will be a 50yd MAX gun. My eyes are tired so open sights will not do. BUT.....am considering a red dot or a 1X. At the most, a 1X-5X variable.

Wondering how one of the cheaper red dots would hold up. Given the inertia thing I know they wont come off the base but what will happen internally. Any insight into this would be most appreciated. I have a Tasco and a Tru-Glo that I could give a try. Both are the small,open red dot style. ---SAWMAN

Big Blue · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2010, 02:04:47 PM »

Quote from: pruhdlr on October 03, 2010, 01:40:07 PM

May I ask sir,what Leupold are you using ?? Didn't know they made a 3X. Been hashin' over what scope/sight to use. #1 is something that will stay outta my eye socket. #2 is everything else. Mainly something for close range. This will be a 50yd MAX gun. My eyes are tired so open sights will not do.

It's an old M8-3X that I bought attached to a Marlin .444. I sold the rifle for the same price I paid for it and kept the scope! I don't get too many deals that good. I just saw one sell for $180 on Gunbroker. I have no idea how old it is, but I had sent it back to Leupold for a free check up and all is well. Between age and diabetes, my eyes aren't up to open sights any more either. I also plan to use my .500 S&W as a 50 yard brush gun.
Don

pruhdlr · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2010, 03:05:17 PM »

I have used PowerBelt ML bullets outta my 50Beowulf. I was wondering if anybody has tried them outta a 500S&W Mag ??

I might had outta give the PB people a call and ask their "take" on the somewhat higher velocities,huh ??

245gr,295gr,348gr.......anyone

---SAWMAN

Dinny · « **Reply #12 on:** October 03, 2010, 03:09:38 PM »

Quote from: pruhdlr on October 03, 2010, 02:59:30 AM

* I have more money than GOD and I gotta spend it on something

There's our wounded warriors to contribute to.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,215176.0.html

Thanks, Dinny

pruhdlr · « **Reply #13 on:** October 06, 2010, 03:44:14 AM »

GOT IT !! My 500 arrived yesterday. Several problems that could/will be/are overlooked were --->
* front sight fiber optic was cut in half with a small piece missing.
* front sight was extremely loose. Could move it back and forth with finger pressure. The fiber optic top piece was not installed correctly or took a very hard hit after packaging(no evidence from the box). It was torqued badly. almost out of the dovetail.
* rear sight was extremely loose. Could move it easily with finger pressure.
* muzzle end had a strange looking "goo" on it. Borrowed some WD-40 from the dealer and it was easily removed.
* bottom of butt stock between the recoil pad and the sling swivel was pretty badly dinged.

BUT.......front sight is removed and filed in the circular file. Rear sight was removed and filler screws were installed.(they went with the front sights). All I had was stainless but they look pretty....?....different/good. Butt stock will be chopped so the dings will be gone.

All in all.....pretty happy. It will go to the gun shop today for the "NEF makeover". Like my 444 and 45-70,it will emerge......ready to go to work. ---SAWMAN

searlock · « **Reply #14 on:** October 06, 2010, 02:28:22 PM »

Was able to shoot my t/c custom shop 26" 500 s&w yesterday over my chrony. Speer #14 manual max load of lil gun 350 grain soft point. Highest velocity 2356 fps lowest velocity 2311fps. Ten rounds and my shoulder was tired. Speer states max pressure for 500 is 60000psi but their load data is less than max. Have ordered some aa1680 to test with speer data. Hope that my 26" barrel will give me more velocity. My encore handels the recoil well and dosen't torque as bad as my 500 handi did.I have some 400 grain jacketed and some 275 grain all copper hollow points to try next. I like the lil gun powder.

pruhdlr · « **Reply #15 on:** October 07, 2010, 02:10:50 AM »

When contemplating a 500S&W I looked hard at both the 20" Katahdin bbl(for my Pro Hunter)and a somewhat longer custom bbl from T/C or others in the full bull(1.00") configuration. With the bull bbl I wasn't sure about how the balance point would be effected buy the length of the bbl.

I still will eventually get the T/C bbl after some pondering of the "problem". To me,just guessing,a bbl of about 22 inches would be good. I currently have the Katahdin bbl chambered in .45-70 and it shoots absolutely great.

I will never give up my Handi 500 for it's compactness and it's fast handling characteristics.

Seems that looking thru the 500 data that is out there,every powder and bullet maker wants to keep the pressures <52K. Understanding the liabilities thing,it still makes me wonder what the TRUE potential of the 500S&W really is. A 350gr @ 2356 is starting up the ladder of the "higher" pressures but seems that you still have a way to go. I would be very interested in how the velocities directly relate to the increase in pressures. I have also read somewhere that the max pressure for the 500 is 65K. Although I have no reason to approach even 60K.....it is still interesting to ponder.

Please keep us posted with your findings. ---SAWMAN

Dill45 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 07, 2010, 10:34:24 AM »

I believe the MAP for the 500 is 60K PSI, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

But as you said, most loadings I see are around the 50K range, makes me wonder how much KaBoom this round really has.

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #17 on:** October 07, 2010, 11:55:13 AM »

Have not seen any data specific to the 500 S&W, but other big bore handgun cartridges start to lose velocity or don't gain any after the first 16.5 inches of barrel. This is based on an actual study where pistol caliber rifle barrels were cut back incrementally and the same loads chronographed. Granted, the 500 case is big, but by and large, most folks are using faster rifle (4227) or pistol powders because that is what the published load data uses. Don't really see the point of a longer barrel in this caliber, unless you are a very experienced handloader and willing to venture into the uncharted territory of somewhat slower powders. Certainly would not even want to begin in that direction without at least some very good ballistics software.

Big Blue · « **Reply #18 on:** October 07, 2010, 12:08:45 PM »

Quote from: pruhdlr on October 06, 2010, 03:44:14 AM

GOT IT !! My 500 arrived yesterday. Several problems that could/will be/are overlooked were --->
* front sight fiber optic was cut in half with a small piece missing.
* front sight was extremely loose. Could move it back and forth with finger pressure. The fiber optic top piece was not installed correctly or took a very hard hit after packaging(no evidence from the box). It was torqued badly. almost out of the dovetail.---SAWMAN

My .500s front sight came in a similar condition. After looking over the sights, I decided they did me a favor. I don't think they would have held up well anyway.
Don

Dill45 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 07, 2010, 12:56:58 PM »

Quote from: guns-o-fun on October 07, 2010, 11:55:13 AM

Have not seen any data specific to the 500 S&W, but other big bore handgun cartridges start to lose velocity or don't gain any after the first 16.5 inches of barrel. This is based on an actual study where pistol caliber rifle barrels were cut back incrementally and the same loads chronographed. Granted, the 500 case is big, but by and large, most folks are using faster rifle (4227) or pistol powders because that is what the published load data uses. Don't really see the point of a longer barrel in this caliber, unless you are a very experienced handloader and willing to venture into the uncharted territory of somewhat slower powders. Certainly would not even want to begin in that direction without at least some very good ballistics software.

I think it has a lot to do with the amount of powder in the case. I know that the 460 Mag picks up a lot of velocity out of a rifle with a 24 inch barrel. I'd be curious to see how much it picked up out of a 16.5 inch barrel. The 500 on the other hand doesn't pick up nearly the velocity the 460 seems to pick up. Most I've seen a 500 pick up was around 450 FPS, while the most I've seen out of the 460 is around 800 FPS. But I digress, I do enjoy short barrels on rifles, and if this were the case, I wouldn't feel nearly as bad wanting to chop the last 6 inches off my Handi.

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #20 on:** October 07, 2010, 04:15:12 PM »

Here is a link to the article summarizing the results of testing. It has been posted on this site before. The particular ammo or load plays a role too (as you would expect).

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html

PS: you will notice that there is no simple trend. Velocities rise and fall a little, and for some ammo, there even seems to be a sweet spot in terms of length. Man, I really need to chrony my 500!