Author Topic: You folks can stop your speculation.. (Read 10626 times)

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #30 on:** January 03, 2011, 11:08:23 AM »

PAT/Rick , that building was full of men just like you with respect to the oath they took . I would think it would be hard to cover something like is suggested up. Not saying it could not happen but it would take more control than has been exibited by Govt. in a long while.

williamlayton · « **Reply #31 on:** January 03, 2011, 01:55:58 PM »

No one can see anything clearly with that much sand in their eyes.
C'mon TM---you have a problem with it and the problem lies within your brain.
Blessings

billy_56081 · « **Reply #32 on:** January 03, 2011, 02:05:28 PM »

As I said before, my cousin saw an airliner coming in very very low in the direction of the pentagon. Right after that he heard the impact and saw smoke. He said there was no way that plane could have pulled up without him seeing it again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEWtcMtG0DQ Here is an example of security camera footage. I guess it was robots who robbed this McDonalds.

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #33 on:** January 03, 2011, 05:29:30 PM »

Shootall, absolutely. Thats why I have a hard time with saying it was or wasn't like A or B. I'll always remain sceptical on this topic until I have an absolute proof of which way or what exactly happened. Exactly what happened, I have no idea and cannot judge on the evidence given, for me just too much conflicting evidence I guess. I'm willing to listen/research to both sides before I make up my mind on any topic, seems this one will remain in limbo for me/us. I think it sad that our nation can/cannot, will/will not, give us factual information on a fatefull day where so many of our countrymen were killed. Heck, maybe I just shouldn't worry about it, not being able to change it but it will sure bother me for a long while I think.

Shu · « **Reply #34 on:** January 04, 2011, 02:24:02 AM »

So you are saying it was an ALCM (air luanched cruise missile also known as a tomahawk) it carries a 500 lb warhead, and has JP 10 fuel in its tanks. The fuel is not kerosene or diesel nor does it smell like it. Witnesses say they smelled kerosene remember. The ALCM does not have any cloaking technology, there just isn't room for it inside its fuselage. It is packed pretty tight in there. It looks more like a flying telephone pole regardless of it's paint job. This is a serious weapon, tracked in ordnance inventories, by serial number. It would take a lot of people to be involved for one to go missing.
Thats what hit the pentagon? Since it is air luanched what fired it? Please don't say the stealth bomber or stealth fighter, those can still be with eye and those arre watched very closely also.
Since all this evidence is out there , I would still like to know. Tomahawk is not topsecret anymore and hasn't been for awhile. So no oath violations.
I would just like some facts before I decide. I have watched the grainy videos several times and am not convinced.

Shu · « **Reply #35 on:** January 04, 2011, 08:43:41 AM »

No ALCM of the production line, Ok Then what was the missile, and how was it cloaked. Other than some very theoritical stuff, it hasn't happened and why did it stop with it's cloaking moments before impact?

Also George Bush in office for approximately 9 months before this happened. Most Americans would call him the stupidest president ever, and he supposedly was the mastermind?

The two towers, someone planted explosives inside? Do you know this would take several weeks and have to be done on multiple floors.

The logistics of this conspiracy is just a bit difficult to believe. I would love to believe it just not seeing it.

squirrellluck · « **Reply #36 on:** January 04, 2011, 10:00:45 AM »

[quote author=TM7
.
The Official Theory adherents are primarily conspiracy theorist that are dual loyalist, and they will always block investigation and knowledge of this event. They will never get this and always block real investigations lest they be found out and their agenda thwarted, mostly lower level ridicule,,,, right up to the day the real perps are led to the gallows. These people need to be purged as well.

..TM7
.
[/quote]So as long as we don't use names but descriptions only as you do in this post it is all good right?

williamlayton · « **Reply #37 on:** January 04, 2011, 12:22:32 PM »

Sure , If I were baiting. I posted an opinion---don't really see how that is baiting---but if you think so I will refrain.
Blessings

Shu · « **Reply #38 on:** January 04, 2011, 01:21:26 PM »

Wow, I was sure I read something about cloaked missiles. I think there is a conspiracy out to get the new guy on the conspiracy forum. Some group of people had to have deleted any posts but mine regarding cloaking technology. Well I can see I am not big enough to play in this sand box. I'll just lurk about and refrain from asking questions.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #39 on:** January 04, 2011, 01:58:32 PM »

I know my cousin said the plane headed for the pentagon was not cloaked. He saw he could see it was a standard passenger liner and he had never seen one so low without being near the airport.

Cloaked, that sounds like something right out of Star Trek, Klingons I guess.

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #40 on:** January 04, 2011, 02:30:38 PM »

ALCM/CALCM are not the same as a Tomahawk.Tomahawk (used by the Navy) has a higher payload than the ALCM. ALCM are nukes. CALCM is the same platform as ALCM but with conventional warhead in lieu of nukes. That C warhead is 250Lbs HE. Source: USAF Ammo Troop who served alongside USAF Missle troops who worked on ALCM/CALCMs every day at Fairchild AFB, Spokane, WA. The CALCM's that were painted to resemble civilian airliners were painted like that to be launched at taliban and al quida, as a here's your airliners back, "in your face" gesture. The tail numbers of those four planes, were painted on the CALCM's, they were launched from a B-52H. I guess we're a bit closer to rounding up the truth about Cruise missiles. There are other nations besides the US that use air launched cruise missiles. The rest remains unanswered. Oh well.

Shu · « **Reply #41 on:** January 04, 2011, 05:38:01 PM »

ALCM, GLCM, etc came out at the same time Tomahawk did. In fact they shared cool things like TERCOM guidance, and other acronyms such for air launched cruise missile, ground luanched cruise missile etc. The Tomahawk is round so it facilitates tube launches from a submarine and has multiple warhead options. The air force version is a B52 launch job.

Anyway, it was my bad calling the ALCM from the Airforce a Naval Tomahawk.

You all have a good new year and stay in good health.

williamlayton · « **Reply #42 on:** January 08, 2011, 03:42:39 AM »

Like any investigation---the investigator cannot go back in time to review the event as a fly on the wall---it comes down to solid evidence---not gut feelings, distrust of the actors involved, personal prejudices, magic of the mind---solid evidence.
The solid evidence at hand are independent eye witnesses both outside the Pentagon and within.
No one could stage a scenerio wherein a plane would fly directly over a target at the exact same time that the missle would hit the Pentagon.
There are eyewitnesses of the carnage after the impact---and all---ALL--saw the details of the wreckage as that being of an airplane.
What do you do about the forensics of people aboard that plane, which were found in the wreckage and used to identify the passengers on the plane.
What about the reports of the airline that lost the plane.
All of the evidence points directly at the airliner---Directly.
Any other thought is pointed directly at sand in the eyes, head in the sand and magic of the mind.
Blessings

billy_56081 · « **Reply #43 on:** January 08, 2011, 07:23:04 AM »

WL, the sad thing about these conspiracy theorists is they do not want to believe the credible evidence. As we all see with TM here he tries to spin what my cousin saw, but is open to believe the completly outlandish. And these conspiracy folks get upset if we doubt them. We can see this by how the moderator here deleted some post which contained information which is agianst what they believe.

ironglow · « **Reply #44 on:** January 08, 2011, 11:01:24 AM »

One thing we must understand... With conspiracy theorists it is clearly " don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up" !

It would matter little to a con-theorist if you presented they with clear photos, videos, 100@ eyewitnesses or a written confession by a criminal or perhaps their own observation of an event. They have little images riding around in their heads... and these little pictures are stronger and speak louder to them than all the security cameras, forensic evidence or signed confessions anyone could possibly show them !

Casull · « **Reply #45 on:** January 08, 2011, 11:15:52 AM »

Quote

As you know perhaps, eyewitness testimony is considered the least reliable in a court of law.

Quote

I would certainly be able to post just as many, if not more, posts from eye wittneses' that saw no hit,

Sooooo, nothing happened.

williamlayton · « **Reply #46 on:** January 08, 2011, 08:11:12 PM »

The evidence of the existance of the plane is the missing plane and the body count.
The physical evidence of the plane was found inside the building.
Now, I uspose that the terriorist could have been killed somewhere else and the evidence of their body could have been put into the Pentagon--after the fact---maybe even put into the missle----but then again a missle is not a transport vehicle and does not have room for all the people lost during this episode.
Like God---you can deny til the cows come home---just don't add up when you piece it together.
Blessings

Casull · « **Reply #47 on:** January 09, 2011, 11:00:20 AM »

Quote

Really, as far as 911 investigators are concerned, the Pentacon is a huge smoking gun...almost equal to the WTC #7 demoliton.

Interesting show on the History channel today. Blows a HUGE hole in the truthers' demolition theory on WTC #7. Like the fact that it was on fire for over 8 hours before it fell. Like the fact that it WAS studied by demolition experts for weeks afterward (with thousands of photographs taken). No evidence of demolition found. Like the fact that there were numerous diesel fuel tanks within the building to run numbers of generators. Like the fact that the design of the building (hollow lower floors) made the collapse not at all surprising. Like the fact that #7 was damaged by flying debris more than 8 hours prior to its collapse. Oh well, facts aren't going to change their minds.

Casull · « **Reply #48 on:** January 09, 2011, 01:45:35 PM »

Quote

Oh well, facts aren't going to change their minds.

See.

williamlayton · « **Reply #49 on:** January 09, 2011, 03:11:04 PM »

If there were not dna---oh--that is right there was not any dna---nor plane reported lost or interviews with family---or folks seeing a plane flying too low to the ground just as a blck smoke appeared.
In the case of eyewitness reports--in identifying people, you are correct---in seeing a plane buzz the top of your head---well---I can take that as evidence.
It is a fun spin though, I agree---I love hocus pocus and imagination.
Good discussion.
Blessings

Casull · « **Reply #50 on:** January 10, 2011, 11:28:11 AM »

TM, try watching the show. I know it's not like your usual sources. It's a pretty well recognized station and the people they have on acually have jobs, educations, real names and such, but maybe you'll see something there that's not on tinfoilhat.com.

williamlayton · « **Reply #51 on:** January 10, 2011, 12:57:30 PM »

I just do not know how to say this.
I will leave with this thought---everbody must sort it out for teirownselves.
When people, with an overwhelming desire to deny, even at the risk of being labeled unstable in character, distort facts beyond any and all reasonable defensable position--and refuse--in the face of undeniable and documented testimony--to acknowledge the legitimate deaths of 366 human beings + the prepitators--call their families liars and discredit their names for the soul sake of establishing a lie for reasons unknown and unimaginable---is beyond my ability to reason.
Blessings

billy_56081 · « **Reply #52 on:** January 10, 2011, 03:23:38 PM »

Kero Demlition inc.? No such thing.

WL I think you have said it perfectly. If TM talked to my cousin personally he would take what he said as a lie because it does not fit his agenda.

powderman · « **Reply #53 on:** January 10, 2011, 04:07:45 PM »

WILLIAM, BILLY. Well said. POWDERMAN.

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #54 on:** January 10, 2011, 07:30:34 PM »

After spending a few hours taking more of an in depth look, I would ask why only 5 frames of pentagon security film were released? Doesn't seem prudent nor concisive to a complete investigation. I will question this for a long while probably. Those who said they SAW the plane? I will not doubt them.

Shu · « **Reply #55 on:** January 11, 2011, 07:25:22 AM »

What I do know about kerosene... well a pit 15 feet in diameter and 6 inches deep will burn in about 20 minutes with temperatures spiking around 1500 degrees farenheight. Not enough to melt steel but weaken it. Also there are several small firestorms that happen. The small vortexes of fire see temperatures hot enough to melt steel. When you have several of them acting together they feed off of each other increasing in heat until all the fuel is gone. With several small firestorms raging through the floors there can be alot of super heated areas that would melt steel. Not the perfect demolition scenario but is very plausible.

There were 2 other bombings of the WTC in history using actual explosives, neither brought the buildings down. Huge impacts and firestorms inside the building are a very plausible explanation.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #56 on:** January 11, 2011, 10:55:32 AM »

Here we go again TM what is thermite? Obviously you do not know.

powderman · « **Reply #57 on:** January 11, 2011, 12:02:34 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on January 11, 2011, 10:55:32 AM

Here we go again TM what is thermite? Obviously you do not know.

Billy. Thermite??? Everybody knows those are muslim termites. POWDERMAN.

Shu · « **Reply #58 on:** January 11, 2011, 05:26:42 PM »

Wikipedia as a source well... considering anyone can edit it.

Anyway insensitive munitions tests requires a weapon withstand 1500f for 15 minutes with no pieces thrown over 50ft. The test is suspend a weapon 4 feet above a pool of kerosene 20 ft in diameter and 6 inches deep. Temperatures are taken though out the test. Guess what kerosene will reach that temperature of 1500 F.

Thermite is a reaction between aluminum and iron oxide. When it burns it will cut steel.

A huge pool of kerosene in an office building even 1 inch deep over an acre, temperatures had to be well over 549.5 F. The small flame vortexes would dance through igniting carpets, papers, furmiture etc.

I did go to a plane wreck once. The first responder was sure the pilot ejected becuase he saw no body. The other emergency services people gloved up and got ziplock baggies to put the remains in. Yep sandwich size baggies.

Shu · « **Reply #59 on:** January 11, 2011, 05:30:58 PM »

Also I wanted to add that Japanese pilots crashing into US Naval vessels did alot of damage. A small fighter plane carrying 500 lbs of explosive pretty much took the USS Intrepid out of action. The filight deck was fouled, emergency crews were killed by the second plane crashing in. Crashing a plane into something seems pretty effective. I wonder if there was a conspiracy between Bin Laden and Admiral Hirohito?