The Death of American Manned Space Flight

[skarke]

Today the final nail was driven into the coffin of US Manned Space Flight.  I live about a mile from Johnson Space Center, and have had the privilege of associating with some of the finest, most intelligent and productive minds in the world.  I grew up around here during Apollo, and Gene Kranz and his fine family lived just a few houses down.

I learned this morning at Bible Study that two of our group are part of the layoffs, already cut.  Regardless of how you feel about NASA, it is undeniable that the Agency has assembled the finest group of aeronautical engineers and scientists the world has ever seen.  There are thousands of truly brilliant people working in this space center who are being discarded as so much useless chaff.  It saddens me.  What saddens me even more is that we the people of the USA are willingly forfeiting our technological superiority in this critical area.  The job offers are already coming from India, Japan, and even China.  My friends are left with the choice of pursuing their passion for space flight with most likely a foriegn power, or spending the remaining ten working years calculating the flow of Parkay Margerine on the production line, or some other worthwhile, but hardly comparable to the Space Program, field.

Coupled with that, I learned that our division will also be laying off about 2/3rds of our team (375).  The once vibrant, explosively successful medical industry is on the ropes.  Reasearch has all but stopped, and most in my field are left to pick up our marbles and leave, or be broken by the new system.

I just don't know how much more of this Summer of Recovery I can take.   

[P.A. Myers]

My 'ol dad the the Air Force pilot, still thinks the space program is waste of time and money. We never have agreed on this. We agree that NASA has always been too political. Policy problems have cost lives and fortunes. If NASA survives it should be privatized.

I think man on the moon was an historic gesture and a worthy accomplishment. However, I think deep space is better left to robots. Ballard noticed that during a dive miles underwater, that the scientists with him were looking at the monitors, not out the window. He now uses only robots. Non-bio probes solve most of the  logisical problems of manned exploration.

 I have always believed that the exploration of God's creation is the most nobel pursuit of mankind. I have alays feared that hands would reach up out of the mud and drag us back to earth. The doors are closing. Is this a manifestation of the collapse of civilization?
  I pray not.


P.A.

 

[Victor3]

 Things are tough all over, skarke...



 Don't give up hope in the face of change though



 Spacex, which has been very successful (especially for a rocket company only around since 2002), is planning on manned space flight in the not too distant future. They have a presence at Johnson, and along with similar private firms are picking up a lot of previously NASA employed folks to work at multiple facilities located in the US. I know a few of them, and the company I work for is a subcontractor for all of these firms.

 It can't be a completely bad thing to reduce the cost of a launch by 90% (Spacex's goal) while still manufacturing vehicles in the US. I'm sorry for your friends' job losses, but NASA is a bloated organizaton that isn't sustainable in today's economy.

http://www.spacex.com/company.php

 As far as medical manufacturing goes, I worked as a manufacturing engineer for a CA orthopedic implant manufacturer five years ago. Back then, the industry was booming in the US, and overall is still doing well compared to most other US manufacturing sectors. Seems that while many Americans will accept a foreign coffee maker, they're not as apt to go for an artificial heart stamped 'Made in China.'

 And not to worry... A ton of Aerospace and medical device manufacturers are located in CA. They're leaving in droves due to the horrible business climate here and they have to go somewhere. Texas is much more friendly to them. 







 

[Oldshooter]

I just don't know how much more of this Summer of Recovery I can take.

My Dad told me once that the Lord does not give you more than you can take. Dad died in 99, He never heard of obama.

There will be a lot of waste and destruction before this era is over. I hope the light at the end of the tunnel isnt a train.

[Land_Owner]

I live 2 miles from the 225 square mile Kennedy Space Center's south gate and work for a 900-man, US based, Engineering and Architecture Corporation, 65 associates of which including me, design, outfit, retrofit, and modify Space Launch Complexes (among other things) for NASA, USAF, and Private and Public "Space Ports".  When you saw Apollo and see the Shuttle launch, EVERYTHING that is not a rocket or the concrete deck was originally designed, construction managed, outfitted, retrofitted, and modified by my firm (and I have helped these past 23 consecutive Shuttle years post-Challenger).  You don't leave Earth on an American Rocket that we didn't get you from VAB to the Pad and then boost you along.  

Yesterday, a LOT of people, primarily from NASA's Contractors, lost their livelihood and sustaining employment and were sent into the night to an uncertain future.  
These people REMEMBER and they VOTE!

United Space Alliance (USA) / Johnson Space Center laid off 333 employees with an additional 400 being laid off at aerospace firms all around the area
Jacobs Engineering laid off 129 employees
USA laid off an additional 1,222 employees in Florida and Alabama. Almost 800 were terminated at Cape Canaveral.  The next layoff is in January for another 200 to 300.
Lockheed Martin / New Orleans terminated 800 shuttle program employees at the Michoud Assembly Facility
ATK Aerospace Systems/Utah laid off 414 engineers, factory workers and other employees

Deeper and more severe Space Program layoffs are looming in October/November 2010 while NASA Administrator Bolden apologizes to the Muslims and makes them "feel good" about their contributions to the United State's Space Program and World Science (HA!).  The reason there are no Arabs on Start Trek is because Star Trek is in the FUTURE.

This Nation can no longer put a man on the Moon, get a man beyond Low Earth Orbit, or find Klingons circling Uranus!  You may claim "Glut" exists in the politically charged US Space Program, and it certainly may, but thank your lucky stars that the US Space Program continues to exist to contribute to the ease of American Life:

For every dollar the U.S. spends on R and D in the space program, it receives $7 back in the form of corporate and personal income taxes from increased jobs and economic growth.

(apparently that's worth "killing" under the Obama Administration's "redistribution of wealth" Hope and Change).  No thanks, Keep the Change!

...one key spinoff that we did not get was a viable private manned space industry, at least so far. One is developing, but it’s not there yet.

[BUGEYE]

my brother works at kennedy as a guard and when there's nothing left to guard, I guess he'll be out of a job.
if anyone wants to by a house around titusville, they're cheap right now.  thanks obama

[yellowtail3]

Sorry those NASA guys/contractors got laid off. It hurts. But they made great money while it lasted, and no doubt their skills will be utilized elsewhere.

[lakota]

They have to free up budget for the new mission they have been given by the one.

[Empty Quiver]

It is a shame that so much talent will be leaving. I am afraid we might have to give up bragging rights to manned space flight.

I am not convinced that manned space exploration is the best utilization of resources. What is a man going to tell you about space that sensors and other robotics cannot? With the increasing distances and time required a human is a drag on the mission.

If information about the cosmos is the goal then unmanned projects interest me. If weightless endurance is the goal then the apparatus is in place already. We went to the moon, quickly found out that other than the first time it was largly boring. I will not deny that much was learned.

After Magellen circumnavigated the globe it wasn't long that it became routine and little new about navigating was learned. There are no plans to "trade" among other planets. Until that time simple exploration can be more economically done with unmanned systems.

Maybe a new breed of engineer will take the place of those leaving, let's hope so.

[powderman]

They have to free up budget for the new mission they have been given by the one.

LAKOTA. YEP, the islamization of America, and to weaken our military. 2 of osamas goals.  POWDERMAN. 

[skarke]

Just an FYI, the entire "savings" to the federal budget will be eaten up by growth in entitlement spending before the end of this year.  God knows it is certainly more productive use of federal revenue to fund ACORN, the aclu, planned parenthood, abortion, etc.  Unreconciled transactions alone in the federal budget (stuff we paid for but didn't get) is about twice the last NASA budget.

No, in my opinion it's not a cost savings issue, it is a political club to punish primarily red states, where most of NASA's facilities and employees exist and work.  Barney Frank's Fannie, Freddie debacle, had it not occurred, would have funded the Space program for the next 35 years.

We used to reward excellence, now we reward laziness.

 

[powderman]

We used to reward excellence, now we reward laziness.

 


Worse yet the welfare state encourages it. I knew a woman on welfare several years ago who found a job paying $6 per hr. She was overjoyed. The welfare folks pro  rated her earning before she got her first check. Took away her check, food stamps, and medical cards for herself and her daughter, all before she even got a check. Her paycheck wouldn't pay her rent and buy groceries let alone provide medical care for herself and child. She quit and  went back on welfare. She cried and cried, she really wanted to work. Seems there should be a bit of incentive to help folks willing to try their best to help themselves and become independent. POWDERMAN. 

[Swampman]

I hate to see any jobs lost.  That's the worst part of it all.

[Oldshooter]

I'll be glad to see the turn around in November and the Rebirth(of my Fathers country) in 2012! This administration has to go! What in heck was this country thinking?

Drilling is in moratorium, The space program is down, The private sector is almost dead!, Health care is about to be extinct, at least as we knew it! Taxes are going through the roof in 2011, China is going to own most of this countries debt. Automobile unions running Detroit, Illegal aliens are coming by droves and the president is suing to stop Arizona from protecting its borders and bringing in that mexican pimp to lecture us at the capitol building.
Hmmmmmmm!.................. let me see did I freaking miss sumpn? 

And I dont really think its an accident.

Yea Buddy! This hope and change is a good thing, ya think?   





 

[torpedoman]

Real world leaders rent their rides just ask the pres. seems like a "presidential solution" to me

[powderman]

OLDSHOOTER. Well said and true. I'll believe osamas goons are gone when I see it. I didn't think Americans were stooooopid enough to elect clinton once, but they did it TWICE. POWDERMAN. 

[billy_56081]

I'll be glad to see the turn around in November and the Rebirth(of my Fathers country) in 2012! This administration has to go! What in heck was this country thinking?

Drilling is in moratorium, The space program is down, The private sector is almost dead!, Health care is about to be extinct, at least as we knew it! Taxes are going through the roof in 2011, China is going to own most of this countries debt. Automobile unions running Detroit, Illegal aliens are coming by droves and the president is suing to stop Arizona from protecting its borders and bringing in that mexican pimp to lecture us at the capitol building.
Hmmmmmmm!.................. let me see did I freaking miss sumpn? 

And I dont really think its an accident.

Yea Buddy! This hope and change is a good thing, ya think?   

I hope we see a turnaround in November, but from what I have seen in the past, I'm starting to think no matter who gets in, it will be more of the same. If so, maybe the muslim animals can do us all a favor and nuke DC when all the parasites are there and we can finally get a fresh start.

[Victor3]

Sorry those NASA guys/contractors got laid off. It hurts. ...and no doubt their skills will be utilized elsewhere.

 This is partly what I was trying to convey.

 I'm not unsympathetic toward people losing their jobs. Far from it; my heart goes out to them, especially the older folks. My division laid off nearly 50% of our workforce (~2200 aerospace manufacturing and support positions) over the last two years.

 But for the grace of God, there went my job and it's still not secure by any means. I've been layed off from aerospace twice during my career and had to find work in other industries for 14 of my 27 years in manufacturing. I've often worked two jobs in order to keep enough money coming in. Been a part time teacher, auto mechanic and longshoreman among other things. Does it suck working 80-100 hrs/wk? Yes.

 My Father worked as a quality engineer at Hughes Aircraft for 42 years and ate Valium like candy every time a project finished, wondering if he was going to be working the following week. One thing I learned from him, even before I started working in the business myself, was that big aerospace has historically been terribly wasteful. Little accountability, triple redundancy of employees, pefectly good hardware tossed into the dumpster because of simple paperwork errors, and LABOR UNIONS (one of the main reasons manufacturing work is going away). Without new blood within the industry to create healthy competition, not much will be different in the future.

 Things change and it's prudent to try to be prepared. Unless you're employed by Fabbrica d'Armi Pietro Beretta (established 1526), there's a good chance you won't be working for the same company your Great x4 Grandfather did. I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that CA is turning into a 3rd world basket case that will soon produce nothing more complex than oranges.

 As far as a new bunch in Congress, what would you like folks, hard poop or runny poop?

 I'm still hopefull for new defense work though.



 

[yellowtail3]

No, in my opinion it's not a cost savings issue, it is a political club to punish primarily red states, where most of NASA's facilities and employees exist and work. 

Ouch - there might be some of that.

I knew a woman on welfare several years ago who found a job paying $6 per hr. She was overjoyed. The welfare folks pro  rated her earning before she got her first check. Took away her check, food stamps, and medical cards for herself and her daughter, all before she even got a check. Her paycheck wouldn't pay her rent and buy groceries let alone provide medical care for herself and child. She quit and  went back on welfare. She cried and cried, she really wanted to work. Seems there should be a bit of incentive to help folks willing to try their best to help themselves and become independent. POWDERMAN. 

Now that just sucks; a disincentive to work and effort. I hate it.

Things change and it's prudent to try to be prepared. Unless you're employed by Fabbrica d'Armi Pietro Beretta (established 1526), there's a good chance you won't be working for the same company your Great x4 Grandfather did. ... I'm still hopefull for new defense work though.

If there has to be some - and there does - I hope you get it. But I'm hoping we can do with less; we've had a wartime-sized military, most of the time, for the past 70 years or so. We've got more Navy than all potential enemies combined. Expensive.

[slim rem 7]

 its a sad thing skark..
 old shooter i too,, will believe obama,or one like him is out ,when i see it..
a free people are free to make thier choice.. they ll have to live with the consequences ,of thier choices..
 we all will..
 what to do.. pray ,vote ,,endure..
 perhaps next ,it will be the carriers or submarine fleets that will be mothballed..
somebody just does not appear to be on our side..old kruchev used to say something to the effect of ,,
 the old U.S. is an like an old workhorse.. it will destroy its own greatness,,from within..
 sure hope he was wrong..but its not looking good,, to my eyes..
 his will,, will be done though..
 what nation in history withstood prosperity..even rome,,really fell from within..then the predators were there to take advantage of it,, an enjoy the spoils..its repeated itself ,many times in history..
 i sure hope im wrong,,though. theres always hope,in a merciful father..
 ah just go on tony .. try an make a good day out of this one..it is a gift ,,afterall.

[wreckhog]

Private industry is sending more satellites, and people into space than ever. Military too. No, it ain't the moon, but believe me, there are a lot of employed folks doing this. Moon tourism will happen at some point. Time to let private industry take the reins.

This is from the Virgin Airlines guy. But tons of Americans are working on it. A friend worked on marketing this as a class at Columbia MBA school.

http://www.virgingalactic.com/booking/