Author Topic: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?  (Read 1050 times)

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Offline Jghoat

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What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« on: October 03, 2010, 06:27:37 AM »
 I have a 44mag shorty on the way from the smith. Now I want to put together a short(16 1/2") barrel handie as a winter project to match the 44 mag, I want a regular rifle cartridge but which ones make better short barrel rifles. I was thinking 30-30 or 7mm08 but would be open to others, not looking at 45-70 sorry.
 What I wanted to make it with NDS peep sights and no scope if that makes a deference. It would be used as a deer gun up to 150 yards.
Thanks
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2010, 07:23:33 AM »
Jghoat,

I have a 30-06 shorty, 18 3/8" that I like a lot.  It will shoot right at 1" @ 100 yards (scoped) with 165 grain Speer Spitzer on top of 47 grain IMR 3031.  I plan to take it to Michigan in November to hunt whitetail.  With that said, you are probably correct to want a shorty with a smaller case capacity cartridge, reduce the chance of a grass fire. ;D  Also, most of the rimless H&R chamberings are not drilled and tapped for a front sight.

BB 
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Offline guns-o-fun

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 08:28:28 AM »
Well, just remember that velocity loss/inch is proportional to the original cartridges typical velocity.  So, bigger and slower lose less per inch.  And like BB says, the higher capacity cases do breath fire in a short barrel.  Even your 7mm08 will likely have a muzzle flash in something like an 18 inch barrel.  I know because I cut down a 24-inch bull 243 (ok, I can hear the moans and groans already  :-[) so that I could have a rifle turkey gun (big around here for Fall) without having to reduce loads to a dangerously light level.  Don't want to turn one into instant turkey salad, after all.

PS:  My favorite shorty (about 16.5 inches) is my 500 S&W handi.  That is almost a big bore rifle round anyway and I think at 25 yards with a medium weight bullet, it would probably knock down a brick wall.  ;D

Offline moorepower

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2010, 08:33:25 AM »
.30-30

Offline guns-o-fun

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2010, 08:37:42 AM »
Don't tempt me.  My 30-30 is in the corner shaking right now. :D

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2010, 08:45:37 AM »
Although I don't have a shorty 30-30, I do have a shorty 38-55, and am really looking forward to hunting with it in less than 2 weeks!! ;D Look at all the shorty 30-30 levergun lovers!!


Tim

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Offline gendoc

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2010, 10:09:36 AM »
i gotta .223 thats great for them critters out to bout 125yrds when i use the sb-2 receiver.
it would make a fine whitetail head machine with hornady spsx 55gr !!!!
mainly i use this with reduced loads for yard critters with the nickle HG-II receiver.


then i gotta 44mag thats jus plain fun and up close deadly (50yrd) with 255gr wfnpb
had'nt had a notion to go out any further.


then the ol'tractor-blaster 45/410 survivor :o... don't let the accuracy rumors deceive you !!!! ;)
with the right tricks, the .451 bullet can perform very well.
she's took lottsa kiyots at night from a combine. and a few hawgs from tha tractor.


its not a centerfire, but i jus thought i'd throw it in..... tha 17hm2 tree-rat eliminator ;D


theres a couple more. but i ain't got them handi rat now.....

you gunna enjoy that mag shorty...   its a blast ;D



sea-ya.....
in tha meen time, i'm wait'n for tha  7th trumpet ta sound !!!

gotta big green tractor ana diesel truck, my idea of heaven's chasin whitetail bucks and asa country boy, you know i can survive............

hey boy, hit this mason jar one time...
burn ya lil'bit did'nt it. ya ever been snipe hunt'n ?  come on...

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Offline Jghoat

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2010, 10:51:28 AM »
Thanks guys
I think 30-30 is the way to go I never owned one and it's a classic. Quickdtoo, The link help eased my mind that it was not just a wild hair.
Gendoc nice pics. my 44mag is getting a stock set near to that, but the for-end is different.  I love the straight stocks.
All my fathers scatter guns had straight stocks so now pistol grip stocks just don't look right to me.
You never know what I'll come home with but havin an idea is a good start.
Thanks
Old Ghoat
 
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Offline necchi

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2010, 10:53:22 AM »
I think 22"s is short already!  :o

So with that I'm shooting 308, 7-08 and 223 out of short barrels  :D
found elsewhere

Offline bilmac

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2010, 11:20:32 AM »
30-30

Offline manatee1947

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2010, 01:19:35 PM »
Lets look at this logically. Any bottle neck cartridge is designed by constricting the bore diameter to increase pressure, and for a longer time, therefore increasing velocity. The more constriction, the higher the pressure needs to be. That is why they refer to "overbore" cartridges, such as the ultra mags, weatherbys etc. There is a specific relationship between bore, barrel length, and powder capacity, any time you adjust one, they all must be accounted for. If you increase the powder charge, you must make it slower or risk dangerous pressures, or you can increase the bore diameter. If you shorten the barrel, you must increase the burn rate of the powder to use it within the barrel length. Therefore, to use a short barrel efficiently you must use a medium to small capacity case, and if you want a higher velocity bullet, a larger bore. For example, try shooting a 150 gr 7mm bullet from a 7mm08 with an 18 " barrel, check pressure and velocity. Now, take the same case, a 308 variant, neck it up and shoot a 158 gr 357 bullet in a 358 winchester, same barrel lenght, and look at the specs. That is why in short barrels larger bore in relation to case capacity is usually better, together with medium charges of faster burning powder. Given your options, the 30/30 looks best. 
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Offline Big Blue

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2010, 01:30:24 PM »
Don't tempt me.  My 30-30 is in the corner shaking right now. :D

LOL!! Now that some funny stuff!!
Don

Offline Big Blue

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2010, 01:42:00 PM »
In a shorter barrel, I think the 30-30 will lose less velocity than most others. Of course the 30-30 has less velocity to begin with and the more velocity, the greater the loss per inch of barrel length. That said there sure are a lot of short barreled .223s and 5.56s being sold in ARs and they seem to do just fine. For the 150 yard distance you mentioned, I don't think you would have a problem with any choice. Personally, I'd choose a .308! It would retain more velocity in a 16.5" barrel than the 30-30 would have in a 22" barrel.
Don

Offline gendoc

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2010, 01:56:18 PM »
your right big blue... my 17" .223 ain't lost no speed or accuracy wif 5" chopped off.
shoots the same at the distance it originally was sighted in for and at its new shorty life !!
no adjustments in elevation was needed with full load. heck, i don't even think i did any windage
either....
kinda don't make since.... but ya know how none are the same.
no matter what the books say ;)
sea-ya.....
in tha meen time, i'm wait'n for tha  7th trumpet ta sound !!!

gotta big green tractor ana diesel truck, my idea of heaven's chasin whitetail bucks and asa country boy, you know i can survive............

hey boy, hit this mason jar one time...
burn ya lil'bit did'nt it. ya ever been snipe hunt'n ?  come on...

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

Offline guns-o-fun

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2010, 02:12:43 PM »
Hey, H&R make a 30-30 Talo - do they not?

Offline guns-o-fun

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2010, 02:16:32 PM »
I take it back.  Looks like those are just 357 and 44 mag...and 45-70.

Offline dave29

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2010, 02:37:36 PM »
Here's another vote for a .223 or .308. Like said earlier, look at all of the 16" barreled AR's in .223 and .308, and they shoot great.

Offline petemi

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2010, 02:48:55 PM »
Although I don't have a shorty 30-30, I do have a shorty 38-55, and am really looking forward to hunting with it in less than 2 weeks!! ;D Look at all the shorty 30-30 levergun lovers!!


Tim

http://www.gunblast.com/RKCampbell-Tracker.htm

I've got Tim's 18 inch .38-55's twin sister on a nice BC Carbine stock set, and I think I'm gonna love it.  I also have a 16.5 inch Maxie that I use more than anything.  I'm having a problem with one of my .38-55 dies and not having time to fix it......Broken tractor, broken fences, horses out, wife's birthday, etc. etc.  But, I still have 6 weeks to get the wrinkles out.

I think my next shortie would be .223 or .30-30.........but I already have three .30-30s. :'(

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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2010, 04:10:06 PM »
If you handload, velocity lost by a short barrel can be recouped by using a faster powder, been down that road with the 20" 260 Rem Superlight, IMR4064 and IMR4320 provided substantially better velocity in the short barrel than H4350 or RL17 using the same bullets, powder burn rate charts are your friend!!  ;D

Tim
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Offline ihookem

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2010, 05:05:51 PM »
Good posts just in time. I saw a H&R in .308 win. with a laminate stock in the used section today for 199 bucks. Thought it was new, not a scratch on it. Long lop though. I will shorten the stock  a few inches and might take 4" off the barrel. My kid will use it for deer, bear, crows and whatever he sees that needs to die at the time. His H&R in .243 super light just won't pan out. I had the trigger worked on. It was a 7.12 pound pull. Now it's 3.75-4 lb. pull. I put on an "O" ring and that helped, but at 50 yds it is only good for 3" @ 50 yds at best. Still good enough for deer @ 50 yds but the day will come when he needs something more accurate. I think the .308 will fit the bill. Back to you in a week or so if I get the new gun. Any more suggestions on the .243 super light would be appreciated. Thanks.

Offline Kal52

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2010, 05:32:08 PM »
ive got shorties in 30-30 and 22 hornet, love them both.

Dave

Offline poncaguy

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2010, 05:58:35 PM »
7-08 and 308 would be my choices..........45-40 and 45 Colt next

Offline Spanky

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2010, 06:26:22 PM »
I just got a good laugh when I read reply #10... funny stuff for sure. ;)
Funny how the logic don't apply to the 270 and 25-06... the larger bored 270 runs at higher pressure than the "constricted" 25-06. Same parent case and all... the 270 has higher saami specs. I guess "logic" don't always follow the rules. :-\

FWIW... the pistol cartridge Handi's seem to make good shorty's.



Spanky

Offline tykempster

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2010, 06:36:00 PM »
Anything can be accurate with a short barrel, a non overbore cartridge will lose the least velocity though.

Offline BBF

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2010, 07:29:52 PM »


          444 Marlin
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Offline pruhdlr

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Re: What rifle cartridges do good as shorties?
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2010, 02:48:11 AM »
Here's another vote for the 444Marlin.
 
It will/can use the same bullets as your 44Mag(you did not say if this will be a "reloaders gun" or not).
It will retain the same(or more) energy out at 150yds as some of the "rifle chamberings".
It will hit in the same place and will be just as easy to put a bullet on target as a any other cartridge with proper scope zero/adjustment.

If not this, my second vote would be for a .308Win cased round(308,7-08,243)

I just finished a 444Marlin Handi(18" bbl,13.25" LOP) and it shoots and carries like a dream.
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