Making a new barrel

[Darreld Walton]

The wife and I went on a road trip last November that put us at the doorsteps of the Montana Rifle Company in Kalispel.  I ended up purchasing an AR barrel while there, and two barrel blanks, one a 1-12 .375, the other a 1-7 .224 bore.
Has anyone had a replacement barrel made up from a blank utilizing the block that houses the extractor by removing it from another barrel and having it welded onto a contoured blank?
Not in love with the idea of doing a stub job.
What I have in mind is a .38-55 carbine.  That blank that I picked up with the .375 bore would finish up at 20".
http://www.montanarifleman.com/

[necchi]

Welding has inherant heat/warping problems. Rifled barrels are destroyed in the process.
Many, many stub jobs are successfully done. 

[Smokin Joe]

How do you justify that statement, knowing that factory barrels have a welded lug?

[Spanky]

How do you justify that statement, knowing that factory barrels have a welded lug?

Took the words right out of my mouth.



Spanky

[quickdtoo]

3 years ago I sent a rifle barrel stub and a Shilen match 6.5mm blank to site sponsor Wayne York of Oregunsmithing, he had the intention of doing just that, cut the underlug off the donor barrel, turn the blank down to 1.1", and weld the underlug to the blank and finish it. After much contemplation and thought on the matter as to to complexity of building the tooling required to maintain the alignment of the two parts, he chose to do a stub instead, much more practical, he built me a 6.5x55. No one makes H&R barrels except H&R, there was a company that did, but they went out of business 5 years ago.

Tim

[trotterlg]

?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=42683

[petemi]

What Tim didn't mention, and he's the one that has done it.....why not just get a .38-55 barrel, cut it to carbine length and sell your other one?  Tim did two 18 inchers, one for him and one for me.  I would think a lot less expensive in cash and labor.

Pete

[quickdtoo]

?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=42683

Never said it couldn't be done, it's just not practical, a stub is much easier to do, you know that yourself.

Tim

[necchi]

I here by recind my advise too not weld on a barrel,, you guy's go ahead an crank up them stick welders an tape measures an have at it. 
 I just kinda figuered  anyone that had ta ask isn't a machinist or tig welder.
The tools are the name of the game, wasn't there someone offering this service, or attempting to do so, a few months back? The thread was long, technical and debated.

[gjdykeman]

I have enough stuff to keep me busy, my muzzleloader project is still not good. 1 week from the season. I like looking. On Numrich gun parts I saw a barrel blank, 45 cal 26" long, 1"+ in dia. A tube. 77.00. What you could do with that. 45 colt chamber. ACP, 460 454, What ever. Stub. I have experience with a good machinist and a shop in the garage at the deer camp. What would I do with a 45ACP? The disease.

[manatee1947]

makes me wonder why H&R never put out a barrel stub with a 10 ga chamber cut and then just make barrels to sleeve into it ? that would seem to be pretty doable.

[Fred M]

This is a well put together article how to make an H&R barrel.
Also if I wanted to have a custom caliber in an H&R rifle I would
go with a H&R 223 bull barrel and have it rebored and cut rifled.

Before that I would machine the barrel octagone to relieve as much stress as possible and then do the rebore job. As you may know H&R barrels are not stress relieved. Hence the octagon before the rebore. Cut rifling does not induce any stress.

I have two such rifles and they are both dead nuts accurate.
The cost would be comparable to a new barrel as above. That is if I do most of the work myself. Doing all my own stock work too
I ended up with two good looking rifles. There are some fine smith out there that do very nice cut rifled bores, and the H&R
barrel steel is exelent.

Never the less I done a considerable amount of accurizing the whole system to mke them shoot well.

[PHATINJUN]

Hi Fred . I know one of them is your .257 what's the other? I drool over those stocks every time I see them. Great work. Kurt

[Fred M]

Hi Kurt.
The top is the 257 Roberts, the bottom is a 6x47 (222Rem Mag to 6mm) I did this to clean up the 223 chamber, other wise a 6x45 would be just fine too, with the 223 chamber as is.

With limited equipment and welding skills the above rebarreling, contouring and chambering could get quite costly if the work has to be farmed out. Getting the barrel made to spec is a good way to do it.

Making the lug and jigs and welding is another story. It is however good way to make a custom barrel for the H&R platform.

[NFG]

There are many types of welding and many ways to weld...some are OK to use and some are just plain wrong.

Obviously the underlug is attached to the barrel with some form of weldment, all you have to do is look at it.  But the simplistic arguments that have been presented really whizz me off as far as safety is concerned.  The fact that some damphool reading these arguments might try to actually do it and get hurt or worse in the process makes me want to throttle some individuals for their shortsightedness.

The difference is knowing how and using the correct proceedure.  Trying to explain to people that don't understand the difference is like talking to a wall...it "might" be a good idea done right, but the implementation is another world totally.

ANY welding shop with the right equipment and expertice can do the job...it is knowing what NOT to do separates the men from the boys.  I can do it in my shop because I KNOW the theory behind welding, I have a 2 year degree in welding technology anong other things and 20 odd years as a welder, X-ray, unlimited, stainless, tig, mig, plasma etc...which is the reason I DON'T.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek055.html ...for those interested in EDM and why NEF probably isn't a good candidate...the cost of doing it right.

AND...the cost of liability...most people get the fact of "could" mixed up with the fact of "SHOULD", and the facts of productions costs vs profitability vs customer base.

If there was a customer niche out there for making NEF barrels in any caliber you wanted, SOMEONE would have jumped on it all ready.  There are several who do T/C Contender and Encore aftermarket barrels and I guarantee if there was a market for doing  complete NEF aftermarket barrels  they, already having the technology and setups to step into the market,  would already BE in the market.  

Right now a stub barrel is the simplest, easiest and quickest way to get what you want...no harder that doing a rebarrel/rechamber on a bolt gun.  Why would you want to get any more complicated than that!!  
 
There are several ways to solve the "shim" problem, but who in their right mind would spend the time and money to develope a process to sell when the customer base is so small.

The NEF might be a very good basis for a multi-caliber system, but it is also cheap which is why it is relatively popular.  But even with it's poplularity it is on the ragged edge of disappearing from production...when it no longer makes a profit Rem will drop it like freshman French.

Lets keep the K.I.S.S. principle in mind when dealing with the NEF...I certainly don't want this to turn into an auction that drives the price of barrels sky hi.

Luck

[Darreld Walton]

Thanks for all the responses. 
Just trying to find a use for this blank, and was pondering what to do with it.
Firing up the ol' AC Lincoln and a handful of 6013 was NOT the plan!  I do have a 'fair' amount of experience fabbing up equipment that kept aircraft up reliably, and ICBM's 'in the green'.  Unfortunately, the equipment and resources I had on hand stayed on the base when I retired, and didn't follow me home.
Biggest problem I see with a truly interchangeable barrel system on the NEF guns is a distinct lack of consistent tolerances between receivers.
I get carried away sometimes, trying my best to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

[GreenMachine79]

Darreld, look at it this way, you now have a good excuse to purchase some more equipment.

[moorepower]

Hey Fred, I talked with the guys at MMI Tru Tech and the salt bath nitriding DOES stress relieve the barrel, makes the interior smoother and is very hard, so it really increases barrel life, and they are self lubricating, so velocity usually goes up. When the barrels are done, they look kind of like a polished blue job. I read about it on the 6mmbr site and it is catching on with br shooters and guys shooting barrel burners.

[Fred M]

Morepower.
Yes I read about the process. But sending gun parts accross the border is just a big pain. So we do things that works not too bad.
Many US factories don't want to deal in Canada because the need
permits from Wasghington and these permits are not cheap.

If I can produce a 3/8" H&R hunting rifle I am a happy camper, if I don't have to go to the US. I would be more than happy if we could buy any of the US stuff without Gov. interferance. Alas them days are gone and Obama is of no help to us. Besides I am too old to worry.

[moorepower]

Yes I forgot about the border thing. I am going to send a couple of barrels down, one being my 17 furball, which I think it will really help in rounds down the tube lifespan. It started out as a .17hm2, so it may be a little soft right now. It shoots lights out with factory ammo, so this one will be a good test.

[Darreld Walton]

When I was stationed at Malmstrom AFB, in Great Falls, I worked part time on my off duty working at Morris Sporting Goods, down on Central Ave.  That was back in the '70's.  I remember well, folks coming down from Calgary and even Edmonton to spend the weekend in Great Falls shopping.  We mostly sold reloading components and accessories, but at that time, firearms could go back and forth by declaring them.  I also remember hearing some of those folks mentioning that they could make the trip, pay the duty, and still end up with the goods for less than they'd have paid up there.
Biggest mistake I EVER made in my life was accepting an invitation from a busload of Aussie tourists, who'd got together with some mates from Alberta, and we all went drinking.  VERY bad.  I thought I could hold my own, but I was under the table in the first hour.........................

[ihookem]

What exactly is a stubbed barrel?

[briannmilewis]

Biggest mistake I EVER made in my life was accepting an invitation from a busload of Aussie tourists, who'd got together with some mates from Alberta, and we all went drinking.  VERY bad.  I thought I could hold my own, but I was under the table in the first hour.........................

As an Australian, I can verify that this story has been repeated countless times since WWII US GIs started taking R&R in Australia! The beer that the Aussies grow up on is about 2x the alcohol content of US beer! A very simple explanation for apparent he-man, mythical, physical capabilities of the average Australian male.

[Darreld Walton]

As an Australian, I can verify that this story has been repeated countless times since WWII US GIs started taking R&R in Australia! The beer that the Aussies grow up on is about 2x the alcohol content of US beer! A very simple explanation for apparent he-man, mythical, physical capabilities of the average Australian male.

Well, in an attempt to erase my shame from that evening, I decided to start building my tolerance.  This involved a half pint of Wild Turkey each evening to the point that I no longer felt any effect.  Then progressed to boilermakers, and then close to a fifth a day, and then, moonshine from a little still up in the foothills west of town.  Thar jist waren't 'nuff "O"'s in smoooooooth!
Glad to say that I'm now 20 years sober!  I also remember back then, that at 5'8", and 130 pounds, that two shots made me ten foot tall, bulletproof and absolutely irresistible to any and all women!!!!  It never did make me unsusceptible to black eyes, bloody knuckles,  and broken ribs, nor from busted truck windows and dented fenders, for some reason........................

[Darreld Walton]

What exactly is a stubbed barrel?

A "stubbed" barrel is made by taking an undesirable barrel, cutting it off ahead of the lug, drilling and reaming through the old barrel, then mating a new barrel of the desired characteristics to that 'stub', and securing it in and chambering, finishing, etc.
It is a form of 'sleeving' a barrel, just without the entire length of the original barrel, and several methods of securing it in have been done, from threading through, threading through with a lock nut, like a Savage 110, or machining a collar on the breach end of the new barrel and threading or soldering it in place.
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,113860.0.html

[AtlLaw]

at 5'8", and 130 pounds, that two shots made me ten foot tall, bulletproof and absolutely irresistible to any and all women!!!!  It never did make me unsusceptible to black eyes, bloody knuckles,  and broken ribs, nor from busted truck windows and dented fenders, for some reason........................

  You would have to have been there - done that to really appreciate the truth of this statement!