Author Topic: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns  (Read 3047 times)

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Offline lgm270

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The Dept. of Homeland Security has seized a new born baby from the parents on the grounds that the father owned guns and was a member of the "Oath Keeper" organization. They just took the  new born baby girl without even allowing its mother the chance to hold it.

This is a scary story that is still developing, but preliminary reports appear to confirm the story and a copy of a Motion to change venue has been obtained and put on line.  The gist of this is that owning guns and having conservative political beliefs is now considered good cause to take your children from you.  

It appears that the DHS is working with the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) on this operation. The SPLC is a spy organization controlled that goes after loyal Americans, smears them and in some cases sues them.   The main stream media has given the SPLC, a  nominally private organization, a kind if semi-official power to designate and smear  Americans as "hate groups," and "bigots."

Do you own guns?  Do you belong to "Oath Keepers?"  Do you belong to the NRA?  Do you participate in Tea Party and other activism?  

We always feared gun confiscation.  Now it appears that they will confiscate our children and then  make surrendering our  guns a condition of getting visitation rights  or custody of our own children. This is monstrous.


http://www.prisonplanet.com/government-seizes-newborn-baby-over-political-beliefs-of-parents.html

http://www.rightsidenews.com/2010100811841/us/homeland-security/is-the-department-of-homeland-security-targeting-qoath-keepersq.html?utm_source=Right+Side+News&utm_campaign=3c75d7380c-daily-rss-newsletter&utm_medium=email

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&p=153858

http://www.americanpatrol.com/

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/146237


Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2010, 11:19:00 AM »
Don't be jumping the gun so to speak. A little internet searching is showing that there may be much more background to this.
GuzziJohn

Offline lgm270

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2010, 11:27:54 AM »
Don't be jumping the gun so to speak. A little internet searching is showing that there may be much more background to this.
GuzziJohn

I hope you are right. Nothing would please me more than to be shown wrong. 

Offline Hooker

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2010, 05:08:22 PM »
I don't know it looks like we have some of the usual suspects.
Homeland Security- An illegal entity bent on violating rights and turning the country into a police state.
DHS- white slavery sponsored by the government.
SPLC- The every heterosexual white man is a bigot wing of the ACLU.

No conspiracy here ::)

Pat


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Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2010, 07:09:04 PM »
I smell a rat.  The one kept by the "new bolsheviks".

If the dad is such a bad person as the articles are insinuating, why isn't he incarcerated?

The state needs to worry about affairs that concern the state. Stop butting their corrupt noses into our Liberty.

Offline MGMorden

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2010, 08:18:05 PM »
There's more to this story than these sites are letting on.

One of the sites apparently obtained the original affidavit and published PART of it online.  The other part they censored because it contained "serious allegations" and they wanted to "protect the privacy of the parents".  Translated: there's some other stuff going down.  We'll wait and see what comes of it.

I did see it referenced in at least one other location that the couple's other two kids had previously been removed from their custody due to violence and neglect towards the kids (and the father ordered by a court to attend anger management classes, which he failed to do). 

I'll wait until I have more info before passing judgement, but something smells fishy about this.

Offline wreckhog

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2010, 10:10:40 PM »
They lost 2 kids already and chose to have #3. I suggest that you folks send your kids to stay with J. Irish for the holidays if you believe the original poster....lol 21 months. Termination of Family Rights. Neglect. Sounds like #1 Dad to me, not.

Offline myronman3

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2010, 02:55:10 AM »
i will be damned......i  think i actually found a post of wreck's that i can agree with!   

   

Offline nhnef

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2010, 03:57:09 AM »
I live here in NH and I'm very proud of our local news channel.  They did a very fair peace on this couple just this morning.  They didn't smear the oath keepers but they did comment that the couple had two other children that have been removed due to negligence.  There was no jumping to conclusions or blaming an organization.

I'm heading up to Concord anyway and I'll drive by just to see who is showing up to help them protest.  Right now they are camped outside the hospital where the child was removed.

Offline beerbelly

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2010, 05:06:26 AM »
You say that the couple had two other children that have been removed due to negligence. Negligence covers a lot of territory, sounds a lot like some of the BS I have seen DHS pull before!
    We need to know a lot more about this case.
                                 Beerbelly

Offline powderman

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2010, 05:15:55 AM »
NHNEF. Keep us posted for new developments. I have no idea what an oathkeeper is. Please explain. POWDERMAN.  ??? ???
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2010, 05:37:25 AM »
NHNEF. Keep us posted for new developments. I have no idea what an oathkeeper is. Please explain. POWDERMAN.  ??? ???

From what I read (only prompted by this article), it's an organization that consists of military members, law enforcement, etc which solicits vows/oaths etc that they will not follow certain types of orders if given (mostly stuff that would violate the constitution).

The organization itself, doesn't seem all that out of the ordinary.  DSS varies from location to location, but from what I've typically seen, a lot has to happen for them to seize custody.  There's a lot more to this story that I'm sure will come out within a week or so. 

Offline lgm270

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2010, 07:12:24 AM »
Update from World Net Daily:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=213149

If their other children were removed for "negligence", whatever that means, of what relevance was it to include in the affidavit his purported membership in Oath Keepers.  

Bear in mind there is a significant part of the ruling class, i.e. academics, social scientists, social workers, etc., who thing that possession of fire arms is a symptom of mental illness per se and that children should not be allowed in a home with firearms.

Several years ago gun owners in New Zealand (as I recall) boycotted a business that lobbied for more restrictive gun laws.  In NZ you need a mental exam to have a permit to possess firearms.   Well the  politically active gun owners were singled out for special handling, as it were, on the grounds that switching  their consumer dollars  away from one business to another was a sign of mental instability, i.e. "intolerance" and "hostility."   

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2010, 08:15:19 AM »
I think that they solicit the types of people mostley who have already taken the vow. Military,LEO, and even politicos take a vow to protect and defend the Constitution against all aggressors, both foreign and domestic. the gov't has a problem with this and old vets because they/we know that the oath specifically is defense of our Constitution, and NOT the bastardization of said Constitution by corrupt politicos. There is no emphasis put on who the domestic aggressor may be. The gooberment would have the sheeple believe it to be gun toting bible clinging Americans. Yes I added my name to their list, when I was honorably discharged,nobody told me to disregard the oath I took.

Offline saddlebum

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2010, 05:32:03 PM »
This is what The Blaze had to say about it today. Written in part by the AP. I think it adds a little more clarity to the story. Still some questions to be answered though.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/did-state-take-child-because-dad-belongs-to-oath-keepers/
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Offline mrussel

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2010, 08:06:08 PM »
You say that the couple had two other children that have been removed due to negligence. Negligence covers a lot of territory, sounds a lot like some of the BS I have seen DHS pull before!
    We need to know a lot more about this case.
                                 Beerbelly

 The only reason you think hes innocent of any wrong doing is becuase he is a member of a organization you like. The fact is,we know nothing right now,either that hes innocent of any wrongdoing or that hes guilty. If it was some liberal activist that had their children taken you would either ignore it or be going on about how these people dont have any morality and abuse their children. Why not see what really happened first.

Offline saddlebum

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2010, 08:45:48 PM »
My, don't we have a chip on our liberal defending shoulder tonight!   ;D
" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

“OUR CONSTITUTION WAS MADE ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ANY OTHER."           John Adams

Offline mrussel

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2010, 09:07:22 PM »
My, don't we have a chip on our liberal defending shoulder tonight!   ;D

Im just saying,if your a member of any right wing organization,and you run into legal trouble,your right wing supporters will be sure to come to your aid declaring your innocence. Its like when Michael Jackson was arrested for molesting children and all his little fan boys and girls were holding vigils and going on about what a great person he was and how he is certainly innocent and that they themselves would trust him with their children even though they had never even met him in person. I pose to you the same question, with this family,being under suspicion of abusing their child,and having her taken away,would you trust your children around them. Thats right,of course you wouldn't because you know nothing about him other than the fact that he is under a cloud of suspicion for child abuse. Ill say this though,Ive known people over the years that had run ins with the law over neglecting or abusing their children,and usually as they are telling me how they are being persecuted or their Grandmother just has a grudge against her husband and lied to the police,Im thinking "its about damn time becuase I was ready to call them myself" Most parents that abuse their children and have them taken away have some sort of sob story about how its all a bunch of lies,but the bruises usually tell a different story.

 I think its far more likely that this guy abuses his children and it has nothing to do with his political affiliations. In fact,unfortunately child abuse is common enough,if your organization gets big enough,chances are someones smacking around his kid and hopefully someone will come in and deal with it. (or should we devise some sort of hands off,no government involvement,free market based system to prevent child abuse? I'm open to suggestions,but until then,I'm probably going to remain convinced that its an appropriate use of government power so long as due process is respected.)

Offline saddlebum

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2010, 09:29:15 PM »
It appears that everyone feels the need to know more about this case before we know for sure if they removed the child because of Oathkeepers. Even Beerbelly said so.

If I jumped to an improper conclusion about the chip on your shoulder, it's because I just came over here from replying to your accusations on the other thread. If I'm wrong, I apologize.    :-*
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" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

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Offline williamlayton

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2010, 03:53:17 AM »
We have no proofs from any side---only accusations.
I pray that the gov. is not overreaching but due to some recent events I am not sure that they are not.
This should be a state and local agenda---why are we wasting federal money on a local issue?
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Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2010, 08:28:58 AM »
I have NEVER seen where OathKeepers has presented itself as a militia organization. I wonder where The Blaze got that info at  ???

Offline mrussel

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2010, 08:36:00 AM »
It appears that everyone feels the need to know more about this case before we know for sure if they removed the child because of Oathkeepers. Even Beerbelly said so.

If I jumped to an improper conclusion about the chip on your shoulder, it's because I just came over here from replying to your accusations on the other thread. If I'm wrong, I apologize.   ;D

 Fair enough.

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2010, 08:37:18 AM »
We have no proofs from any side---only accusations.
I pray that the gov. is not overreaching but due to some recent events I am not sure that they are not.
This should be a state and local agenda---why are we wasting federal money on a local issue?
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Offline saddlebum

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2010, 08:43:41 AM »
I have NEVER seen where OathKeepers has presented itself as a militia organization. I wonder where The Blaze got that info at  ???

If you are reading the word "militia" in the article, notice the quotation marks. They are quoting the petition of abuse papers filed against the father. In the video he reads it straight from the petition. They are not a "militia" but are refered to as one in the petition of abuse.
" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

“OUR CONSTITUTION WAS MADE ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ANY OTHER."           John Adams

Offline MGMorden

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2010, 09:15:59 AM »
This should be a state and local agenda---why are we wasting federal money on a local issue?

By the looks of it, it was state government.  From one of the articles:

Quote
a newborn baby was ripped from its mother’s arms by officials from the New Hampshire Division of Family Child Services

People will end saying "Federal Government" because often times I'm not sure they even check to see which division is doing what.  I'm also convinced that many don't really even know the distinction.  "Federal Government" just becomes a replacement for the word "government" in general.  Kinda like the kids in the school cafeteria who called what we got on our plates at school "Chicken McNuggets".  If you're not at McDonalds, they're not McNuggets, but some just get so used to saying it they don't realize there's a distinction.

After it changes hands a few times on the net there's not telling how twisted the story gets.

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2010, 10:09:41 AM »
I have NEVER seen where OathKeepers has presented itself as a militia organization. I wonder where The Blaze got that info at  ???

If you are reading the word "militia" in the article, notice the quotation marks. They are quoting the petition of abuse papers filed against the father. In the video he reads it straight from the petition. They are not a "militia" but are refered to as one in the petition of abuse.
Thanks saddlebum. Boy did I miss that part. A while back cps took children away from the parents of a church group. It didn't take long for them to give them back after the first court sessions. IIRC that was in Portland ,OR. The CPS has a bad record there, a couple of years ago a child was killed because the "agent"(?) from CPS was derilict in their supervised visitation,i.e. not doing their job. IMO the CPS of several areas need to be investigated and policies "normalized". Another part of our broken system.

Offline mrussel

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2010, 11:01:34 AM »
I have NEVER seen where OathKeepers has presented itself as a militia organization. I wonder where The Blaze got that info at  ???

If you are reading the word "militia" in the article, notice the quotation marks. They are quoting the petition of abuse papers filed against the father. In the video he reads it straight from the petition. They are not a "militia" but are refered to as one in the petition of abuse.
Thanks saddlebum. Boy did I miss that part. A while back cps took children away from the parents of a church group. It didn't take long for them to give them back after the first court sessions. IIRC that was in Portland ,OR. The CPS has a bad record there, a couple of years ago a child was killed because the "agent"(?) from CPS was derilict in their supervised visitation,i.e. not doing their job. IMO the CPS of several areas need to be investigated and policies "normalized". Another part of our broken system.

Like anything that's basically a lot of people doing their jobs,there are flaws. The question is,what should happen when a child goes to a teacher and tells her that she is being sexually abused by her father and has physical injuries to prove it. I dont think anyone here will argue that social workers and police should show up at the door and take the children somewhere safe and that's what usually happens. The real question is how do you balance due process and the rights of the accused with that.
  On the one hand you dont want to leave any children in that situation. On the other you dont want to take any peoples children away based on false accusations from people who are carrying a grudge. The problem is,the only way to do the former is to act on any accusation as if it were true without bothering with supporting evidence. The only way to do the latter is to simply ignore ALL accusations. Its a balancing act,and the initial act of taking the children away to a safe place pending a court hearing is probably the best thing that anyone can come up with. As you mentioned,those children taken away in Portland were returned after a court hearing. I dont see that as the system not working,but in fact working as it should. If it were not working,the parents would have proved their case,the judge would have said "The prosecution doesn't really have any evidence,but I dont really feel comfortable returning your children just in case".That would have been a failure of the system.

 Of course I'm sure people can bring up tons of anecdotes of people who have had their children taken wrongfully and their lives turned upside down by CPS (or whatever its called in their jurisdiction). The problem is,there are very few people that abused or neglected their children that will say "Oh yea,I used to beat the little bastard,CPS was spot in taking him away!" They are allways the victim. They allways talk about how it was "Grandma that had a grudge" or "Some teacher that felt that I shouldn't spank my kid" (Turns out spanking was with a claw hammer) They all have some excuse why the system wronged them and that's all you hear. In other words,its meaningless when you hear the professions of innocence without having access to actual evidence against them because everyone,innocent or guilty says they are innocent. Unless you actually have that file in front of you to read,or the courts dropped it all and gave the children back,there is no way of knowing if they really are innocent or just making excuses. I agree with the idea of "Innocent until proven guilty" but would you let your neighbor who just had her child taken away by CPS watch your children based on that and her protestations of innocence?

 Its all a balancing act and sometimes mistakes WILL be made. There is NO way around it. If the system where you are is more flawed that it should be,it should be fixed,but that probably has little relevance to the system in other locations. Some I'm sure are well oiled machines,some I'm sure are just the opposite. Its just like police departments,some are badly broken,some work very well.

Offline Mikey

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2010, 02:07:03 AM »
Wait a dang minute, the southern poverty law center is a commie front for a liberal socialist organization.  Has everyone here forgotten how to light a match???  If their change of address soon becomes their license plate number it will be kinda tough for them to make much headway, ya know.......

Offline wreckhog

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Re: Fed Gov Seizes New Born Child of '"Oath Keeper" Who Owns Guns
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2010, 03:13:12 AM »
How come no Oathkeepers have offered to let their kids stay with Irish for a few months as part of a show of support? Time to put up.

Offline saddlebum

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" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

“OUR CONSTITUTION WAS MADE ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ANY OTHER."           John Adams