Author Topic: Wheels and Axle (Read 2823 times)

robbob · « **on:** October 11, 2010, 02:48:26 AM »

My half scale barrel will arrive this week! The stock is cut, and I will cut the cheeks after the barrel arrives. I will be buying 30" wheels. I'm not sure if I should get wheels with bushings or not. It seems that most of the places that sell wheels say you can use black pipe for the axle, I don't think that is the best idea.

Should I get wheels with bushings?
What should I use for the axle? (My plans call for the axle tree to be 2.25" square)
How should the axle tree be attached to the stock and cheeks? There is no indication in the plans I have.

Rob

Zulu · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2010, 04:07:50 AM »

Hi Rob,
First of all, what plans do you have? They should clearly show how the stock sits on the axle tree.
The stock is notched to fit over the axle housing as are the cheeks. The axle housing will be held to the bottom of the cheeks with iron straps. The cheeks will also be wrapped with iron straps which overlap the axle housing straps in the front. The trunnion cap bolts will run vertically through the cheeks and through holes in the iron straps. This will strongly tie everything together.
I would use a 1" round iron bar for an axle but this decision must be based on what your wheel hubs are. Personally, I don't think bushings or bearings are necessary, though they certainly will make the wheels roll more easily. But for the most part, you are not likely to be rolling the carriage for any sustained distance.
Find out what provision there is for an axle in the wheels you are ordering.
Hope this helps.
Zulu

Notice the notch that goes over the axle housing in this roughed out trail.

This is a split trail carriage but the theory is the same. Notice how the iron straps on the cheeks overlap the straps on the axle housing. A bolt runs vertically through the cheek to secure these straps. The top of the bolt is modified (flattened and cut for a trunnion key) so it won't pull through the straps.

Hard to tell in this picture but you can see the trunnion keys inserted into the "flattened" end of the vertical bolts.

moose53 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2010, 07:07:24 AM »

The big advantage of bearings in your wheels is not to make it roll better , its so you can take up the clearance in the wheels and not have them randomly move when you shoot your cannon.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2010, 09:02:49 AM »

I think I may have taken this pic quite some time ago

when some guys were working on a full scale 3-inch Parrott build. I know that a channel is cut in the axle bed and the iron axle was placed in the channel; but then what steps (if any) were taken to secure the axle in the bed before the straps fastened the bed to the carriage?

Zulu · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2010, 09:44:00 AM »

Quote from: Boom J on October 11, 2010, 09:02:49 AM

I think I may have taken this pic quite some time ago when some guys were working on a full scale 3-inch Parrott build. I know that a channel is cut in the axle bed and the iron axle was placed in the channel; but then what steps (if any) were taken to secure the axle in the bed before the straps fastened the bed to the carriage?

Boom J,
That's a good picture for this conversation.
The axle has a 3/4" nub welded on it in the top center. This nub fits into a hole in the axle housing. This prevents side to side movement. The axle housing bands including the end bands (not yet installed in your picture) hold everything in place.
I wasn't quite sure about this so I looked it up in my AOP book #12.
A field limber for a #1 carriage has a totally different set up. I could try to explain this if anyone has any interest. I have built two full scale limbers and since its axle housing lacks any banding in the middle, like in your picture, there were different provisions to hold the axle in place.
I have always been facinated with the ingenuity necessary to make these things.
Zulu

robbob · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2010, 01:57:38 PM »

Thanks for the input guys. The plans I am using came from Jerry Clement for the 1/4 scale Parrott. The wheels I was looking at require 7/8" axle IIRC. The plans show the iron wrapping around the cheeks and the axle tree, but I wasn't sure if that was all there is to it. The front of the stock will be notched as will the cheeks. If the iron wraps around the cheeks and axle tree it will fasten the cheeks to the axle, but what holds the stock to the axle tree?

Rob

Zulu · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2010, 02:42:01 PM »

Quote from: robbob on October 11, 2010, 01:57:38 PM

Thanks for the input guys. The plans I am using came from Jerry Clement for the 1/4 scale Parrott. The wheels I was looking at require 7/8" axle IIRC. The plans show the iron wrapping around the cheeks and the axle tree, but I wasn't sure if that was all there is to it. The front of the stock will be notched as will the cheeks. If the iron wraps around the cheeks and axle tree it will fasten the cheeks to the axle, but what holds the stock to the axle tree?

Rob

robbob,
Check out the pictures.
Zulu

robbob · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2010, 03:02:15 PM »

Now I see it!

There is more iron work on the bottom.

Zulu · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2010, 03:05:46 PM »

Quote from: robbob on October 11, 2010, 03:02:15 PM

Now I see it! There is more iron work on the bottom.

That is the piece that holds your sponge bucket.
Zulu

Double D · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2010, 04:16:30 PM »

The Clement drawings are I believe actually William Green drawings. If so the Scale is 1/4 inch scale not 1/4 scale.

The axle in the drawing is simply a straight round rod that sits in a sqaure groove in the axle tree. It is secured by axle strap.

This link is to the full size drawing.

http://www.fototime.com/33868D6338DFCA1/orig.jpg

I have an unfinished Parrot rifle made from these plans, that I should finish some day.

The of course these may not be the Clement plans, In which case all I have done is increase my post count.

Zulu · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2010, 04:30:23 PM »

I think you are aiming for 9000 posts!

Zulu

Double D · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2010, 04:33:11 PM »

hey cool, I didn't notice that...2 to go!

dan610324 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2010, 04:48:14 PM »

no just one now

Cannoneer · « **Reply #13 on:** October 11, 2010, 08:33:24 PM »

Okay, so there's a projection on the metal axle that fits into a recess on the interior of the wood bed to prevent the axle from sliding in the bed, and the whole bed is attached to the trail and cheeks with three bands, and there is also an iron band on each end of the axle bed to secure the metal axle inside the wood bed.
Is the metal axle exposed on the bottom of the wood bed, or is it covered by a piece of wood that fits in the cut channel?

http://www.hatchergun.com/Cannons/Trunnion_Iron_Finished.JPG

robbob · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2010, 02:47:03 AM »

Quote from: Double D on October 11, 2010, 04:16:30 PM

The Clement drawings are I believe actually William Green drawings. If so the Scale is 1/4 inch scale not 1/4 scale.

The axle in the drawing is simply a straight round rod that sits in a square groove in the axle tree. It is secured by axle strap.

These are the plans that I have. The finished gun is one quarter scale according to the plans. I have doubled all the dimensions for my carriage. I see the piece on the plans now for the axle strap. I didn't quite understand all the metal pieces on the plans. I have already talked to Dom about making the cheek straps and trunnion caps. I guess I'll have to add to the list of materials I need from him.

(Are you listening Dom?

)

Zulu · « **Reply #15 on:** October 12, 2010, 03:13:23 AM »

Quote from: Boom J on October 11, 2010, 08:33:24 PM

Okay, so there's a projection on the metal axle that fits into a recess on the interior of the wood bed to prevent the axle from sliding in the bed, and the whole bed is attached to the trail and cheeks with three bands, and there is also an iron band on each end of the axle bed to secure the metal axle inside the wood bed.
Is the metal axle exposed on the bottom of the wood bed, or is it covered by a piece of wood that fits in the cut channel?

http://www.hatchergun.com/Cannons/Trunnion_Iron_Finished.JPG

Boom J,
Another good picture.
The axle is exposed on the bottom of the axle housing.
Zulu

Max Caliber · « **Reply #16 on:** October 12, 2010, 03:14:24 AM »

Quote from: Boom J on October 11, 2010, 08:33:24 PM

Okay, so there's a projection on the metal axle that fits into a recess on the interior of the wood bed to prevent the axle from sliding in the bed, and the whole bed is attached to the trail and cheeks with three bands, and there is also an iron band on each end of the axle bed to secure the metal axle inside the wood bed.
Is the metal axle exposed on the bottom of the wood bed, or is it covered by a piece of wood that fits in the cut channel?

http://www.hatchergun.com/Cannons/Trunnion_Iron_Finished.JPG

The bottom of the steel axle is flush with, or extends a bit below the bottom of the axle tree so the metal straps bear on the steel axle and not bear on the wood axle tree.

Zulu · « **Reply #17 on:** October 12, 2010, 04:01:25 AM »

Here is a side view of the axle housing. The axle it shows is the type with the tapered ends that slide into a wheel hub.
Zulu

Cannoneer · « **Reply #18 on:** October 12, 2010, 06:49:00 AM »

Thanks, Zulu and Max.

These photos show the spindle weld, and checking the angle of the wheels on a reproduction carriage build.

http://www.hatchergun.com/Cannons/Axle-Wheels.JPG

http://www.hatchergun.com/Cannons/Spindle_Welded.JPG