Uglyest Ingots I'll Ever Love

[Land_Owner]

Learned a few things smelting on Saturday.

1. Overall, it went WELL!  Nothing burned/spilled/ruined and got some ingots - UGLY BEASTS too!
2. The "free" burner has issues, the first is it's fittings are too small for the 250 gallon in-ground tank connections.
3. Not to worry, the gas grill is already hooked to that in-ground tank.
4. The steel smelting pot (cut-off 25-gal propane tank) is a HUGE heat sink.
5. The BBQ grill does NOT produce sufficient BTU's to adequately heat BOTH the lead AND the steel pot.
6. Dross FLOATS!  Way cool.  Took two hours to make 6 ingots in 85 degree heat.  Not too good yet.
7. While pouring ingots, cooling effects in both the steel pot and the ingot moulds was difficult to overcome.
8. The melted lead was "grainy" like it was mixed with sand - but it wasn't.  
9. The last portion of the "melt" left in the steel pot cooled and "crumbled" when still hot.
10. It was "easy" to tell the smelted ingots were harder than the virgin lead.  

They're UGLY, but I like 'em.

[45-70.gov]

Land Owner
If it was easy, anybody could do it!

i copied  and  pasted  your signature....hahaha

sounds  like it didn't get  hot enough
try  to  ring  the cooker  with some  fire bricks
did  you pour  the lead  or use a laddle??

[Tommyt]

Glad no Burns thats a Plus
8. The melted lead was "grainy" like it was mixed with sand - but it wasn't. 

Did you Flux ?

Tommyt

[Range Rider]

A fellow who is retireing and moving to Texas gave me some lead.  I went out to his ranch to pick it up. Turns out it was 1,200 lbs of range lead. I have 12  5 gal buckets of lead and 50 lbs of linotype.  I could not turn it down being free for the taking.  I can melt down 30 lbs at time so I will be busy for a while.  I have a commercial bullet company here that will melt it into ingots for half the weight.  I am thinking on this one.

RR

[powderman]

Did you Flux ?




That was the first thing I thought of, I hope he did. POWDERMAN. 

[Land_Owner]

Guys, when you ask me if I "fluxed"...several things come to mind (the first one is "floss", and the 2nd, well, let's don't go there).  I poured the lead into the ingot moulds.

I used "some" of the candle wax that D.Crockett provided.  Marble sized balls.  Maybe 10-15 times over 2 hours.  It just melted, took a while really, smoked, and "disappeared".  If I was supposed to keep that cauldron smokin', then I didn't.  I know the heat was too low.  Nothing I could do about that after I got started Saturday.  Just keep moving forward.

I thought I was using too much flux.  Maybe more is better than not enough.  Learning here.  Is there anything wrong with the "grainy" lead?  I was going to remelt it, add more virgin lead and wheel weights, and pour more ingots.

[stimpylu32]

LO

A couple things here , one is you can't use too much flux ( or atleast I've never been able to ) and second , you can will re-flux as you melt to cast bullets so don't sweat the grainy ingots . 

Once you get your heat right , you'll be in great shape . 

stimpy

PS -- When you add the wax to flux make sure you mix it in well , not just let it melt on top .

[mrussel]

A fellow who is retireing and moving to Texas gave me some lead.  I went out to his ranch to pick it up. Turns out it was 1,200 lbs of range lead. I have 12  5 gal buckets of lead and 50 lbs of linotype.  I could not turn it down being free for the taking.  I can melt down 30 lbs at time so I will be busy for a while.  I have a commercial bullet company here that will melt it into ingots for half the weight.  I am thinking on this one.

RR

 Thats 36500 rounds 230gr 45 ACP. Im jealous.

[Tommyt]

A fellow who is retireing and moving to Texas gave me some lead.  I went out to his ranch to pick it up. Turns out it was 1,200 lbs of range lead. I have 12  5 gal buckets of lead and 50 lbs of linotype.  I could not turn it down being free for the taking.  I can melt down 30 lbs at time so I will be busy for a while.  I have a commercial bullet company here that will melt it into ingots for half the weight.  I am thinking on this one.

RR

Do you want to sell some of the lino

Tommyt

LO
The only thing I can come up with is YES your correct about the Heat was Low
I never had that Problem but maybe someone can Give some in put on it
and connect it too the Grainy look
If done correct it should have looked like Molten Silver Real Nice Shine too it
Yes Dcrocket has flux and when you do it again try stirring the pot a bit when
you add the flux if hot (MINE) lit in its own some say it should be lit
I think this is for safety reasons the smoke is toxic

Good Luck

Tommyt

[D Crockett]

land_Owner here is what I think is the problem (1) not enough heat (2) you did not say whether you stirred the flux in the mix or not you have to stir it with a metal rod or something (3)  3 is a safety problem DO NOT PICK UP THAT POT I SENT YOU WITH MORE THAN 1 INCH OF MELTED LEAD IN THE BOTTOM get your self a good ladle to pour the lead with (4) I think you need to get your self a turkey fryer to melt your lead with and if you need any help just call me D Crockett

[SHOOTALL]

Land owner a good flux is wax rings used under water closets . Lowe's etc sell them cheap. Most are bees wax. Plumbers have used it for years. A cast Iron pot is best IMHO . You need a fence around the pot leaving about an inch between it and the pot all the way around to hold the heat to the pot. I like the fence about 1/2 inch below the top of the pot. As an aside lead pot or stew pot when you cut the heat and remove the fence you can touch the bottom of the pot and it will be cool so it is important to keep the heat on the pot. A laddle is the way to handle hot lead , be sure to heat the big spoon and keep it hot. We hang the big spoon handle down on the pot where the bowl will heat and the holding end won't. Try to get a spoon large enough to handle your biggest pour so you won't have a cold joint in your work. Both plumbing and welding supplies are good places to buy latdde and pot. Although I cast all my lead ML bullets I have just started casting bullets for handgus, That said over the years since 1972 I have poured tons of lead and worked and sodered lead. Its all in keeping your heat right and lead clean. I have a lead stove set up I have used for years that screws onto a speical tank but if i were buying a set up i think it would be a turkey fryer and cut the botton out the pot and use it as the fence.

[Land_Owner]

All great suggestions.  I did stir the flux into the molten lead.  The WW and virgin lead amalgam became a silver, almost mercury consistency, molten mass.

My "setup" was to hang the smelting pot on an inverted "V" chain that is bolted to the sides of the pot.  That setup was then hoisted with light block and tackle from the rafters above and the BBQ grill rolled under the pot.  When there was about 25-30 pounds of melted lead and all of the weight was always on the block/tackle, the blocks were hoisted, the pot lifted off the grill, the handle I fitted to the pot upended, and the pour spout directed into the ingot moulds that were waiting on an immediately adjacent table.

The moulds poured sluggishly from the pot.  The pot cooled quickly, the lead solidified and the pour did too so there was a Law of Diminishing Return at work.  Work quickly or lose the heat and start over.

There are cold joints throughout the ingots.  There is dribbling down the sides of the moulds, there is dribbling hanging from the ingots, there is lead on the adjacent table.  

I had a BALL; made a mess that cleaned up easily, and made some of the ugliest ingots I will ever love.

Like the "Rasta" said in "The Fifth Element"...give it some heat!  We need some heat here Man!  I am fairly certain that with additional heat I should be in better business next time.

[Tommyt]

There are cold joints throughout the ingots.  There is dribbling down the sides of the moulds, there is dribbling hanging from the ingots, there is lead on the adjacent table.

Be very Careful when remelting the voids will hold moisture and could bring on The demon Fairy
If your have what you need in the pot and then they are heated I'd say the moisture will go
but if you add a Ingot to a Molten pot you may Get the fairy I know cause I did
it was small explosion and I did not get burned
I thought about how it could have happened  all day and night then the Light went on the ingots had
voids and I'm guessing there was H20 in one and was enough to cause a small Burst
I now look closer to what I'm adding to the Molten Pot

Its all good

Tommyt

[mrussel]

There are cold joints throughout the ingots.  There is dribbling down the sides of the moulds, there is dribbling hanging from the ingots, there is lead on the adjacent table.

Be very Careful when remelting the voids will hold moisture and could bring on The demon Fairy
If your have what you need in the pot and then they are heated I'd say the moisture will go
but if you add a Ingot to a Molten pot you may Get the fairy I know cause I did
it was small explosion and I did not get burned
I thought about how it could have happened  all day and night then the Light went on the ingots had
voids and I'm guessing there was H20 in one and was enough to cause a small Burst
I now look closer to what I'm adding to the Molten Pot

Its all good

Tommyt

 Get a facesheild. They dont cost much and you will be thankfull if somethign happens. If your melting large quanities of metal,dress like your going to arc weld with leather or heavy cloth covering everything but replace the welding mask with a full facesheild. (Welding mask itself could be ok in a pinch if you can see out of it,like if its autodarkening.)

[SHOOTALL]

Best thing to do with cold/wet lead is set it near the pot and warm/dry before putting in pot. With the plumbers pot we hang it on the heat shield . Moisture can cause a bad thing. As example ( I have seen this done and would not do it ) you can wet a finger and quickly dip it in the hot lead. The moisture will push the hot lead away from the finger. So any moisture in the cold lead will push the hot lead out the pot in what looks like an explosion . Two stories- When I was a helper i saw a guy do the dip the finger thing , a drunk was also watching and he just stuck his finger in the pot with out wetting it. He pulled back a finger with nothing but bone on the last joint. Also when a helper I yarned a joint and packed it . The joint was in a closet in a new school that was under construction. The mech I was working with said break time and we could pour the joint later. Well someone relieved themself in the dark clost and filled the joint. Well the area was wet anyway so I did not see the "moisture" in the joint . This was back in 78 so safety was non existant ( no face or eye protection). Hot lead burned thru my eye lid . Both examples are to stress the danger that needs to be addressed and control and attention needed.

[Land_Owner]

shootall (et al)...yeah, I heard and read about the "Tinsel Fairy" and the effect of high velocity superheated steam within a molten pot of lead.  Not a pretty sight and sight, beyond disfigurement, is an essential of the "human condition".  I HEAR YOUR WARNINGS.  I dressed as if I were performing FULL PEN-WELDS.  Now I am going to get a full face shield and preheat those ingots before use.

[45-70.gov]

little  over a year  ago  i was  feeding lead  pipe into the pot

i  assume  it was a spider  that  caused the problem

that  hot  lead  also  HITS  hard  too

i  don't use the  face shield....but  think  i  will start

[SHOOTALL]

shootall (et al)...yeah, I heard and read about the "Tinsel Fairy" and the effect of high velocity superheated steam within a molten pot of lead.  Not a pretty sight and sight, beyond disfigurement, is an essential of the "human condition".  I HEAR YOUR WARNINGS.  I dressed as if I were performing FULL PEN-WELDS.  Now I am going to get a full face shield and preheat those ingots before use.

We never wore full shields really , we did keep the pot at arms length and wear glasses. We also had on all cotton ( very important) to keep from turnning into a torch like nylon and such can do. Gloves can be both a blessing and curse If i wear them its on the hand holding the laddle but not the other as in an accident the lead can find its way into the glove ( please trust me on this ) also pants should cover the top of BOOT well . ANY RING IS AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN ( yea first finger experince here also ).
 It is a dangerous task but I find working with lead rewarding casting bullets or on the job. But I like steam work also. Guess once you get comfortable its no big deal.

Enjoy you lead !

[Range Rider]

mrusell yes that is a lot of .45s.  I decided to go with the 50/50 split and have the commercial out fit clean and mold into ingots.  They run 500 lbs at one time.  By your numbers it will still be a lot of bullets.  They also gave me 1,000 of their gas checked linotype 44 grs .225 flat nose bullets today. It seems that line has been dropped and they were just melting them down.  I am going to try them in my old Mdl 53 S&W Rem Jet.

RR