Author Topic: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE  (Read 2215 times)

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Offline IOWA DON

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NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« on: October 11, 2010, 10:03:39 AM »
According to some anthropologists lately, all humans on earth are of the same race because any male and female human can mate and have fertile offspring. This is currently being taught in colleges and it will no doubt come to high schools.  Does this sound familiar, social-activists changing definitions of words in the name of making the world better, at least in their mind? In the case of “marriage” the definition is being changed by judges, lawyers, gay proponents or others. That is expected. However, the definition of “race” is being changed by anthropologists who I thought were supposed to be more or less scientists. Scientists should not bend science as a way to make social progress. And I do not believe making race a meaningless word will solve race problems.

In the past, two animals were not considered the same species if they could not mate and produce fertile offspring. The exact definition was somewhat blurred as there are some animals considered separate species that may be able to mate and produce fertile offspring. However, they are too different in their lifestyles to be considered the same species, for example the coyote and wolf. They can mate and produce fertile offspring but the wolf mates at various times of the year and the coyote only in the spring. Wolves hunt in packs but coyotes either alone, as a mated couple, or as a family until the pups leave.

Like with the species category, the long time definition of the human races was also a little fuzzy. I think it was based more on visual impact than purely scientific data. That is, a person from the middle of China far from where his ancestors would have mated with Caucasians or Negroes (at least very often) would likely have a very Oriental appearance. Likewise, a person from the middle of Denmark far from where his ancestors would have mated with Negroes or Orientals (at least very often) would likely have a very Caucasian appearance. Of course where different racial groups were in close proximity the people there would often have a mixed racial appearance as the races would have interbred.

The imperfection of the traditional race classification is that although two groups by appearance are of the same race, one group may have particular genes more in common with a group from what appears to be another race. However, because races have mingled and bred, does that mean we should scrap any knowledge gained using a less than perfect system of classification? I think the new definition of race is even less perfect. For example with the new definition of race, if two animals can mate and produce fertile offspring they are not only of the same species but of the same race. So by this new definition coyotes and wolves would not only be the same species but the same race.

Again, I think this is a way of trying to solve racial problems by getting ride of the word race as it has been defined for a lot of years. The race classification may be a little fuzzy, and goal may be good, but the method is very questionable. In some ways it is like when “the church” butted into science and said the earth is flat and the center of the universe. The goal may have been good, but was it worth tainting science? The big difference now is that science is being tainted by a group of people who should act like scientists, not social engineers.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2010, 11:13:41 AM »
Well, everyone knows I don't argue unless I'm getting paid for it so I will not dissect your post.  And, even though I rarely state my own opinion, I will say that they're right, you're wrong.   :D  Further research and study may be in order.  ;)

I know I'm gonna be sorry I posted this...  :-\

EDIT:  I will say that they're right, you're wrong. ...  This was unartfully stated...  :-[  It should say something more along the line of "I disagree with you and am sure that you would come to agree with the majority of the scientific community after a more in depth study of this subject."
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2010, 11:26:16 AM »
AtlLaw why ? I watched a show some time back about DNA . Seems this woman was found in an ice bank. She was 1000's of years old. The people working on her were able to get DNA from her . They also took samples from all over the world. Those who had decended from her were in fact all over the world. They were Native American , African ( black) , white etc. The fact we are learning more is not bad is it ?
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Offline BBF

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2010, 12:37:30 PM »
Similar TV program called I believe The Original Adam , This man's DNA was supposed to be found in darn near every male . Guy came from Africa. Tell me how a red head in Iceland can have African DNA ?? Bullcrap IMO
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2010, 06:26:29 AM »
selective breeding  ;D

I think you will find dominate and suppressive genes play a big part . It is not unsual for a trait to stay burried in the genetic make up only to surface in a later generation when a dominate gene is not present or in the match it is the dominate gene.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2010, 08:12:46 AM »
It's been a LOOOOOOONG time since I studied such things in biology classes but I don't think that race is a classification applied to anything on earth except humans.

All animal species are divided by many different categories but I don't think race is one of them. It is something artificial made up to suit some ulterior motive. I recognize ONLY one race that being the human race. In fact on my Census Form this time under the category of race that is what I listed.

Now having said that I will also say there are some folks running around out there that just by looking at them I'm not at all sure they are in fact members of the human race.

Now I've also heard about the rat race but I think that only humans participate in that so maybe those who to me don't look like humans are really the rats in the rat race. :o


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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2010, 08:55:12 AM »
GB by definition 1-it is a breeding stock of animals . 2-A family , tribe, people or nation belonging to the same stock.
a class or kind of people unified by community of intrests , habits or charcteristics.
3-an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species.
it goes on saying a division of mankind possesing traits that are transmissible by descent and sufficent to characterise it as a distinct trait. from Webster's .
It is a broad definition indeed.
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Offline Gary G

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2010, 06:06:30 PM »
Now, I thought that we all came from Noah. :)
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Offline Mohawk

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2010, 04:14:42 PM »
If Adam was our original father then there is no debate. Right? We all have numerous races in us, like it or not. Why the difference in appearances? Don't know. Sure would love to find out.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2010, 04:34:35 PM »
At one time on earth there were 2 seperate "races" od homo sapien. Homo sapien sapien, and homo sapien neanderthalensis. That is if you believe what they teach in anthropology. In reality we are all human beings, diffences in climate caused us to adapt to fit our environment. I would imagine some selective breeding and inbreeding in history also caused alot of traits in different areas ofthe world.
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Offline Mikey

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2010, 02:34:35 AM »
"According to some anthropologists lately, all humans on earth are of the same race because any male and female human can mate and have fertile offspring". 

Well, I'll just betcha that none of those anthropologists are fat al sharpton, 'hands on' jesse jackson, whoever the head of the naacp is these days, whoever heads the black panthers these days, whoever is of spanish or latin, mexican or puerto rican heritage or who heads up the old brown panther party, whoever might be swedish, german, french, norwegian, russian, members of some african nations, british, irish, japanese, chinese or members of sarah palins family. 

And, of course, there is the arguement that God wanted us as diverse as we are and so he created all the different races of people so we would not be the same, much like the story of the tower of babble, yes????, although many 'races' disagree on their own origins.  And so we are going to listen to some antropologist who tries to put a fertility spin on creation and re-define it?  I don't know, said with a deep sigh, but I'll also just betcha that I doubt any muslim scholars would consider us all one race - if there was there would not be a living infidels - right?? 

And fer da luva gawd, what 'bout Rednecks?

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2010, 05:16:45 AM »
And fer da luva gawd, what 'bout Rednecks?

 :D  a thousand and ONE races!   :D
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Offline Scibaer

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2010, 05:35:46 AM »
I have a BA in Anthropology.. and yes all humans are of one race biologically speaking. this is nothing new.
this definition has nothing to do with heritage ( i'm 100% Scot, by the way ) or ethnic diversity or personal opinion.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2010, 06:11:50 AM »
Yup, true, an outmoded, indefinable term.

But, just for grins, I think the next time I fill out something that asks "race" I'll do what Mikey suggested and put down "Redneck."   :D  If someone asks for clarification I'll tell him "Georgia Redneck!"  Simply because there are GA rednecks, AL rednecks, MS rednecks, all kinds of rednecks!   ;D

'course I have heared tell that some folks are sayin that "Rednecks" originated or evolved in the north...   :-\  Now think about that sports fans... these folk are saying that we southern rednecks are related to these original rednecks!  That we are all one species!   ::)  That we evolved from them!  :o  That we evolved from... from... yankees!?   >:(

I just can't go on...  the thought is to tramatic...  and to think... they let them teach this stuff in schools...  :'(
Richard
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Offline squirrellluck

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2010, 10:10:11 AM »
AltLaw that  is just WRONG!

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2010, 02:07:53 AM »
Some say it (redneck) came about in West Va. in a union - non union war in the coal mines . Others say WVa. was neutral in the War of Northern Aggresion so it is de-bait-able about rednecks being yankees  ;D
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Offline jlwilliams

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2010, 02:45:56 AM »
  Next time I click on this thread, I'm bringin' popcorn.

Offline scootrd

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2010, 03:03:24 AM »
I'm still angry the reclassified Pluto as a non planet  ;D
There goes all that forced homework time I am never going to get back
having spent memorizing our solar system planets.
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Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2011, 10:40:52 AM »
New Definition Of Race?   Keeping writers and publishers of text books employed? Keeping grant money coming to colleges?  ;)

Offline Graybeard

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2011, 10:52:49 AM »
I recognize only two races the rat race which I left when I retired back in '95 and the human race. In fact that's what I marked on my Census Form under race I put HUMAN.

Now I will say I've seen some folks running around claiming to be humans which I have some real serious doubts they really are.

Those neanderthals can't be extinct cuz I see them in GEICO commercials all the time. they are usually kinda skinny tho so they might not be doing well and could become extinct eventually if they don't learn to eat modern food.


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Offline Casull

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2011, 11:47:28 AM »
Frankly, I think that GB's and AtlLaw's statements are really nothing more than a blurring of the terms "race" and "species".  Yes, we are all human.  Yes, we can interbreed.  I think of race more along the lines of "breed" or "subspecies".  With dogs, we have Beagles, Rottweilers, Labs, etc.  Different breeds, but all are dogs.  All can interbreed.  The offspring are also dogs.  I've also read that there are at least 4 or 5 subspecies of whitetail deer.  All can interbreed, but are considered subspecies due to differing traits or habitat (sound familiar?).  Whether by selective breeding (dogs) or natural breeding constraints (humans, deer), we have groups with difering traits.  Yes, same species, but different in some ways.  As I understood it, the term "race" was used to describe these differences.  But, I guess sometimes it's not politically correct to state the obvious.
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Offline XD40SC

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2011, 04:47:53 AM »
Frankly, I think that GB's and AtlLaw's statements are really nothing more than a blurring of the terms "race" and "species".  Yes, we are all human.  Yes, we can interbreed.  I think of race more along the lines of "breed" or "subspecies".  With dogs, we have Beagles, Rottweilers, Labs, etc.  Different breeds, but all are dogs.  All can interbreed.  The offspring are also dogs.  I've also read that there are at least 4 or 5 subspecies of whitetail deer.  All can interbreed, but are considered subspecies due to differing traits or habitat (sound familiar?).  Whether by selective breeding (dogs) or natural breeding constraints (humans, deer), we have groups with difering traits.  Yes, same species, but different in some ways.  As I understood it, the term "race" was used to describe these differences.  But, I guess sometimes it's not politically correct to state the obvious.

You are 100% correct. The order goes Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family ,Genus, Species ,{Subspecies or Race or Breed}

Offline XD40SC

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2011, 04:51:40 AM »
If Adam was our original father then there is no debate. Right? We all have numerous races in us, like it or not. Why the difference in appearances? Don't know. Sure would love to find out.

Because of genetic variations that are hidden until they match up with the same triait from another person. That is why some couples with brown hair and brown eyes have children with blonde hair and blue eyes.

Offline XD40SC

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2011, 04:53:25 AM »
Similar TV program called I believe The Original Adam , This man's DNA was supposed to be found in darn near every male . Guy came from Africa. Tell me how a red head in Iceland can have African DNA ?? Bullcrap IMO
Because of genetic variations , environtmental factors and migration from Africa.

Offline P.A. Myers

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2011, 12:20:23 AM »
Some very real medical problems [sickle cell, tay sachs, etc] are only found in specific 'races'.  Not all anthropologists were created equal.
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Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2011, 10:26:06 AM »
Since I collect guns, I suppose I'm a member of the arms race.  ;D ;D ;D

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: NEW DEFINITION OF RACE
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2011, 03:52:30 AM »
Since I collect guns, I suppose I'm a member of the arms race.  ;D ;D ;D




DANG! You fellow's hurt my head! I woke up this morning and felt almost human. Now I don't know what I am >:(
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