Author Topic: Bolt Action - American Made (Read 4606 times)

Swampman · « **Reply #30 on:** October 28, 2010, 02:18:03 AM »

The new FN Model 70s are as accurate as a Model 700. They are nice.

Bowjack · « **Reply #31 on:** October 28, 2010, 03:24:53 AM »

Swampy,

The new ones are very nice too, but this Model 70 is about 15 years old.

Swampman · « **Reply #32 on:** October 28, 2010, 05:51:40 AM »

With some work they can shoot MOA too.

Brithunter · « **Reply #33 on:** October 28, 2010, 07:06:49 AM »

Now no body tell Swampman but when talking to a gunsmith last night when mentioned being at the proof house when a shipment of Remington's were being unpacked prior to proofing (required by law here). The point of origin stencilled on the crates :-

Istanbul

Seems that Remington is out-sourcing production which might explain some of the real shoddy 700's appearing here in the UK.. No longer American made it seems

.

MGMorden · « **Reply #34 on:** October 28, 2010, 09:48:35 AM »

Quote from: Brithunter on October 28, 2010, 07:06:49 AM

Now no body tell Swampman but when talking to a gunsmith last night when mentioned being at the proof house when a shipment of Remington's were being unpacked prior to proofing (required by law here). The point of origin stencilled on the crates :-

Istanbul

Seems that Remington is out-sourcing production which might explain some of the real shoddy 700's appearing here in the UK.. No longer American made it seems .

The 700's are still american made. They have outsourced production of some items though.

That said, in case anybody missed it, CNBC actually ran a story on Remington's LONG defective safety system about a week ago. It seems to have been fixed in 2006 or so, but between the 1940's and then they apparently have had tens of thousands of rifles slip out of the factory that can fire when disengaging the safety.

At this point they're running into a lot of lawsuits involved from that, and a recall after having ignored the problem for so long would bankrupt the company at this point. It's a shame, because apparently one of the engineers many DECADES ago brought the issue to Remington's attention. Would have cost around 7.5 CENTS per rifle built to fix at that time, and they shrugged his suggestion off. Now they're looking at an issue that through recalls or lawsuits, may well destroy the company.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #35 on:** October 28, 2010, 10:22:17 AM »

Most any company can build a good rifle moa even. When ya get one then to use it to its fullest ya need a good scope . Fact is you could have a MOA rifle and not know it if you have a junk scope and mounts

. I have a mod 70 that shoots 1.5-2 inch groups never done better . Got a 700 that with a good scope will make one hole at 100 yards if wind is not bad. a 77 that will also match or exceed the 700. The 70 and 700 have both taken deer the 77 is not legal to small cal. To date the only work on the three is both the 700 and 70 had triggers adjusted and the 77 is box stock. When you choose try to figure out which company has the highest number of tack drivers per run ( ie what will they say and stand behind as far as group size ) or get a easy to work on rifle.

Swampman · « **Reply #36 on:** October 28, 2010, 01:15:15 PM »

Quote from: MGMorden on October 28, 2010, 09:48:35 AM

At this point they're running into a lot of lawsuits involved from that, and a recall after having ignored the problem for so long would bankrupt the company at this point. It's a shame, because apparently one of the engineers many DECADES ago brought the issue to Remington's attention. Would have cost around 7.5 CENTS per rifle built to fix at that time, and they shrugged his suggestion off. Now they're looking at an issue that through recalls or lawsuits, may well destroy the company.

You can't seriously believe this. It's ancient news and was never Remington's fault in the first place.

MGMorden · « **Reply #37 on:** October 28, 2010, 04:14:21 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 28, 2010, 01:15:15 PM

You can't seriously believe this. It's ancient news and was never Remington's fault in the first place.

Whether it's "ancient news" is irrelevant. Whether we're agree or not, legally they are still responsible for the safety of their products. A fairly significant number of their pre-2006 Model 700 guns (about 1%, but that's still tens of thousands) can be made to fire when disengaging the safety. That, plain and simple, will lose them any lawsuit that comes against them for mishaps that can be tied back to that. It's literally open and shut on that regard.

There is a fix (they themselves have switched the design now, but after over 60 years), but at this point they CAN'T do a recall of the older rifles. They simply don't have the money. Enough lawsuits as a result of this will also do the company in. The position they're in now, is essentially to roll the dice. They're hoping that this issue doesn't rear it's head in enough cases to drive them out of business. If they're lucky, they'll survive. If they're not, they won't. Simple as that.

Swampman · « **Reply #38 on:** October 28, 2010, 04:47:55 PM »

You have to be joking......was the kool-aid good?

They've given people some money to shut them up. There isn't and never was a safety issue.

Mulehell · « **Reply #39 on:** October 29, 2010, 01:52:19 PM »

The internal memos tell a different story.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Sections/CNBC_TV/CNBC_US/Shows/_Documentaries_Specials/Remington_Under_Fire/Documents/Rem_Doc_03.pdf
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Sections/CNBC_TV/CNBC_US/Shows/_Documentaries_Specials/Remington_Under_Fire/Documents/Rem_Doc_09.pdf
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Sections/CNBC_TV/CNBC_US/Shows/_Documentaries_Specials/Remington_Under_Fire/Documents/Rem_Doc_08.pdf
http://www.drinnonlaw.com/docs/Remington-79-80-Memo.pdf

There is too much smoke here to be no fire. Take NBC out off the picture and just read Remington memos.

Specklebelly · « **Reply #40 on:** October 29, 2010, 02:41:12 PM »

Quote from: Mulehell on October 29, 2010, 01:52:19 PM

The internal memos tell a different story.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Sections/CNBC_TV/CNBC_US/Shows/_Documentaries_Specials/Remington_Under_Fire/Documents/Rem_Doc_03.pdf
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Sections/CNBC_TV/CNBC_US/Shows/_Documentaries_Specials/Remington_Under_Fire/Documents/Rem_Doc_09.pdf
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/CNBC/Sections/CNBC_TV/CNBC_US/Shows/_Documentaries_Specials/Remington_Under_Fire/Documents/Rem_Doc_08.pdf
http://www.drinnonlaw.com/docs/Remington-79-80-Memo.pdf

There is too much smoke here to be no fire. Take NBC out off the picture and just read Remington memos.

Three words: Statute of Limitations

MGMorden · « **Reply #41 on:** October 29, 2010, 02:50:29 PM »

Quote from: Specklebelly on October 29, 2010, 02:41:12 PM

Three words: Statute of Limitations

Some of the lawyer folk on the board would know for sure, but AFAIK that's more of an issue with Criminal Law. Lawsuits are a matter of civil law. Besides - when the memos were sent doesn't matter if the problem wasn't fixed IMMEDIATELY afterwards. All indicators point to Remington not changing this design until 2006 - just 4 years ago for the math impaired.

Swampman · « **Reply #42 on:** October 29, 2010, 05:49:28 PM »

Nothing is gonna happen. Remington is not at fault.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #43 on:** November 03, 2010, 03:22:10 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 29, 2010, 05:49:28 PM

Nothing is gonna happen. Remington is not at fault.

may be , but you and I both know a company can go broke defending themselves when they are not at fault .

Swampman · « **Reply #44 on:** November 03, 2010, 09:44:48 AM »

This is 1970s news and they ain't broke yet.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #45 on:** November 03, 2010, 10:43:37 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on November 03, 2010, 09:44:48 AM

This is 1970s news and they ain't broke yet.

Even they admit to poor earnings , reason for spartan guns and 870 express to name a few . Not all the trigger but still not good .

Cecil · « **Reply #46 on:** November 09, 2010, 03:55:01 AM »

I wonder if when Ceribus bought Remington if the law suits will carry over?

Swampman · « **Reply #47 on:** November 09, 2010, 07:35:59 AM »

They would if there were any.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #48 on:** November 09, 2010, 09:33:22 AM »

Quote from: Cecil on November 09, 2010, 03:55:01 AM

I wonder if when Ceribus bought Remington if the law suits will carry over?

It may be a point in the sale that these problems are either taken care of or bonded over . A fund set up to take care of them for a period of time. etc.

Swampman · « **Reply #49 on:** November 09, 2010, 09:48:14 AM »

All this happened many many years ago. The bogus suits were settled because it was cheaper.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #50 on:** November 12, 2010, 03:31:54 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on November 09, 2010, 09:48:14 AM

All this happened many many years ago. The bogus suits were settled because it was cheaper.

Actually, not. The Walker trigger is still used on some Remington models like the POS aka M770.

The simple fact is that Remington took a gamble with the Walker trigger and ignored known problems with it. As many as 50% of some rifle models went out the door with serious problems (M600 in particular, IIRC).

Remington put profits ahead of the safety of their customers, pure and simple.

Swampman · « **Reply #51 on:** November 12, 2010, 01:43:14 PM »

Nothing wrong with the so called "Walker Trigger." Remington puts accuracy ahead of all other companies. You can't stop a fool from hurting themselves and others.