Author Topic: One for the experts , DC and some of you other long time caster's  (Read 1059 times)

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Offline stimpylu32

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Or atleast you guys that have been doing this longer than I have .  :D ;) :D ;)

Will a cast bullet that has been Quenched after casting get harder if I Heat Treat it ?

Or will it do just the opisite ( spelling ) = Get softer , I'm using a mix of WW's and extra Tin to get around a 14 BH now , however I would like to get some in the 20 to 22 range for a Hair Brained idea that I have .

Any ideas or info would be very useful .

Thanks in advance .

stimpy
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline tacklebury

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Re: One for the experts , DC and some of you other long time caster's
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2010, 03:33:13 PM »
Water quenching would harden the bullets.  Heating and slow air cool will anneal or soften.  ;)
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Offline ButlerFord45

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Re: One for the experts , DC and some of you other long time caster's
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2010, 03:43:19 PM »
If there is a bit of Antimony and a touch of arsinic in the alloy, then proper heat treating (dumping in cold water) will increase the hardness regardless wether they were air cooled or water dropped initally.
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
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Offline D Crockett

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Re: One for the experts , DC and some of you other long time caster's
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 05:06:24 AM »
Stimpylu when I want my bullets harder I do one of 2 things (1) I quench them in ice water or (2) I mix lynotype with ww to get them hard. If you water quench them it takes a while for them to reach there hardest stage as to what you are trying to do I have never tried that . It would be good to know it it works or not  D Crockett

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: One for the experts , DC and some of you other long time caster's
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 05:21:36 AM »
I use 95-5 soder to make lead harder. Its not the best in cost but its aval. Most of the time you can add a roll ( one pound to 20 pounds lead.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: One for the experts , DC and some of you other long time caster's
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 09:43:04 AM »
Thanks for the input guys , I found some info on this in the LASC web site , it even gave temps and BHN numbers to boot .

http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm

I'm going to give it a try this weekend , I'm looking for a way to up the hardness of some of my 41 cal bullets to avoid using GC's in some of my 41 GNR loads .

stimpy
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline hillbill

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Re: One for the experts , DC and some of you other long time caster's
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2010, 03:55:17 PM »
how fast are yu wantin to push them 41's?jus curious.what powder are yu useing?im new to cast stuff and want to learn everything i can.

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: One for the experts , DC and some of you other long time caster's
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2010, 04:16:11 PM »
how fast are yu wantin to push them 41's?jus curious.what powder are yu useing?im new to cast stuff and want to learn everything i can.

I'm looking to take the 190s to about 2150 fps or somewere in that ball park .  :o I can do it with Jacketed and even GC'ed bullets but just looking at options now .

stimpy
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline ButlerFord45

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Re: One for the experts , DC and some of you other long time caster's
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2010, 03:33:36 AM »
Good project!  Keep us informed how it works and what ya did right and wrong!
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: One for the experts , DC and some of you other long time caster's
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2010, 02:38:03 AM »
just want to add that oven heat treating a bullet out of a given alloy that was water dropped will not come out any harder then if you oven heat treated a bullet you casted from the same alloy and didnt water drop.
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Offline Hank08

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Re: One for the experts , DC and some of you other long time caster's
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2010, 07:07:17 AM »
+1 on what Lloyd said, also I'll be very surprized if your able to get over about 1500 fps without leading unless you use a gas check.  Very hard bullets somtime don't expand to seal the bore and result in more leading rather than less.
H08

Offline BCB

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Re: One for the experts , DC and some of you other long time caster's
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2010, 02:29:14 PM »
stimpylu32,

I put my boolits in an old oven that I have in my garage.  But, what you first must do is see at what temperature the boolits begin to slump, i.e., the boolit begins to melt or soften...

Once you know what setting your oven takes to do this, you can turn it down 10 degrees or so (experimenting is necessary) and then you know the temperature setting...

I place my boolits in the oven when it is cold.  I then turn the thermostat to the pre-designated temperature.  (My oven is 450 degrees)  I then set the timer for 45 minutes...

When the time has expired, they are dumped into iced water.  I do most of mine in the winter as I can put snow in the bucket of water and when the boolits go through the snow that is floating on the top of the water, they are not distorted.  Remember, these boolits are at or near their melting point and are very easily corrupted if they hit solid objects.  I avoid ice for that reason...

I have achieved a SAECO hardness of 10+ with equates to BHN of 22-24+.  This hardness is not immediate, but takes several weeks, at least, to get there.  But they will be in the low 20's immediately...

The boolits must contain some arsenic and antimony to achieve this method of hardness with success.  I add a good handful of magnum type shot to the melt in the beginning with an alloy of 2-1...Wheel weights to #2 Lyman...

Sizing these critters is another ball game!  Not easy.  And some say that the hardness is only "skin deep" and sizing it removes it--that I don't know...

And finally, do you really think you need to go through all of this effort to get a boolit that is greater than say BHN of 14 or so?...

Good-luck...BCB

Offline retmech

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Re: One for the experts , DC and some of you other long time caster's
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2010, 02:00:45 PM »
Quote
Sizing these critters is another ball game!  Not easy.  And some say that the hardness is only "skin deep" and sizing it removes it--that I don't know...

Size them before you heat treat them, it will make things a lot easier.  Then lube them after the heat treat.