Author Topic: Which shotgun..  (Read 3951 times)

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Offline Swift One

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2010, 08:07:16 AM »
What did I miss?????
It's all a hot mess...........

Offline myronman3

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2010, 10:00:03 AM »
shootall ....you were starting up with another member in a way which i saw as disrespectful.  and the above post, is your opinion, dont try to pass it off as fact.   
   this forum is not going to decend into name calling or the other disrespectfullness i see in certain other forums.  other members had their posts edited because any trace of disrespect toward other members is not going to be tolerated here.....some of those posts were edited because they quoted the original post that started it.    we dont always have to agree, but we do have to be respectful. 
   the topic will remain open as long as it stays on discussion of the original topic and doesnt turn into a debate as to what and why things were edited....that isnt open for debate. 


Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2010, 10:41:54 AM »
With due respect , Cost is a factor i pointed that out but did not call names or cut someone down . Also in many cases when units are bid on they go to lowest bidder. The example of handgus was used because it has been printed in many articles about how the decision was made and is accepted as fact by most. It appears mcwoodduck backs my post.
 I didn't offer as fact that the mossy feels like a 2X4 with a pipe on it but as my opinion . Why I feel that way is I bird hunt and shoot clay targets and like a gun that responds fast and fits nicely. The 870 fits that well IMHO. The mossy does not for me .
 I will ask and follow the rules so is debate not allowed ? Will we not be allowed to point out faults as we see in guns/products . Can we express personal likes and dislikes ? And most important are we not allowed to question what apperars to be inaccurate statements ?
I would go back and review the above post but it was deleted but judging by Swift One's asking what he missed not so sure either he or I feel disrespected .
 
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline myronman3

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2010, 11:08:29 AM »
you know you can post your opinion on here, even if i dont agree with it.  but disrespect toward another's opinion wont be allowed.    nor will any of the other foolishness or outragous comments that happens on other forums happen here.    i have a hair trigger on the subject.  in fact, any more posts that dont respond to the original topic from here out are going to be deleted without warning or explanation.  

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2010, 11:20:35 AM »
I feel the 870 Remington Police Magnum Shotgun is the perfect shotgun for self defense or survival. It has better parts ,as decribed in their  cat.a few years ago, than the Express or Wingmaster. I like the side saddle and added one as I did a sling. I also switched the BBL to one with rifle sights for better shot placement . I also added a thread for rem chokes and keep a mod in the gun and a rifled tube close for use on long shots with sabot ammo.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2010, 12:25:55 PM »
Not sure how I got dragged into this.  But I agree with shootall, personal prefrence is part of these posts, costs are a concern.
Makes and models work better for some than others.  Some people like one brand or model over another.  (don't take this the wrong way Swampman) Swamp man is true to Remington and all of the companies owned by them.  While the Remington Model 11, Remington 11-48, Browning A5, Savage 720, and the Franchi AL48 are all the same guns and actions and parts are almost interchangale with out slight modifications Swampamn will tell you that the Remington guns are made to higher tolerances than the others.  May be true may not but that is his opinion and he can voice it here.  He will tell you that the Savage / Stevens stuff is not made as well.  I think there is no difference between the brownings, Stevens, and Remingtons, other than features.
Some like features on some guns that others do not think about.
My Father does not like the Ithaca 37, and the Browning BPS because they eat and poop out of the same hole.
The same hole is not a problem, the falling shells that land in your lap in a duck boat is what bothers him.  The fact that the side ejecting shells either hit others in the blind or off the wall and into him are not a concern to him.
I have owned both and either was not a factor to me.
up until a few years ago I would not own an 870, I thought the wrist on them was too thin and girly. Nothing wrong with the gun just a personal prefrence.  I stuck an M4 collapsing stock on it and did not have to deal with the thin wrist.  Again something that most people would not have noticed, ever. (sorry If i just made you look)
Had an uncle that tortured his Mossberg 500- called it "Rusty butt" and would use it to probe along the creek bed to make sure he did not fall into deep water in his waders.  He owned several shotguns but the clunky Rusty butt went duck hunting.
Dad has an 835 that goes on rainy days and his A5 or Red label stays home.
I bought a Benelli Nova so I would not screw up any of my wood and blued guns duck hunting in the salt flats. I wanted as much plastic as I could get.
Shotguns are like pickup trucks.  All work for the intended purpose, you can modify most to make it more to your liking or for the job at hand, some cost more that others but generally from the econo import to the Cadilac pickups are pickups.  Defense shotguns are defence shotguns.  You can make any scatter gun do as a home defense gun.  The questions are what do you want to add to the basic body to make it meet your needs.  And budget is almost everything.  
The $75 Steven 520 I have that was cut to 18" is a little butt heavy but would work to the $1200 Benelli M2 tacktical that I can not afford, but want, to the 870 I have that has an extended mag, pistol grip and side saddle for an extra 6 rounds that replaced my 1897 Winchester Riot model as the three gun, gun.  My thinking is, if in the middle of the night something goes bang I am not going to have any spare shells in my boxers and have some spare ammo already on the gun is a good idea.  But the post was not about a Home defense gun but a hunker down gun.  In that case all the 12ga scatter guns would be out of the safe and loaded, along with the handgun and the spare mags.
As far as the shotgun goes I really do not care who made it, I care about a few features and reliability.  The Rem Model 11 riot model I have, basically a Browning A5 but you need to push on the bolt release to load the gun.  To me not a good thing for a scatter gun in trying to top off the mag.  The Winchester 1897 to me is the perfect home defense gun.  Short, easy to load with two huge ports.  Smooth action and a short stroke as a pump.  The down sides are it only holds 5 and is the fastest pump gun I have ever owned.  I got the 870 to slow me down.  I have shot the 97 dry a few times becasue the 5 rounds goes fast and dumping 2 or three rounds at a target because it did not fall fast enough is why I went to the 870.  Had the shop had a Mossberg cheap it would have been a mossberg.
But almost any pump or semi auto can be easily turned into a home gun with a short barrel.  WIth shotgun like the 870, Nova, 1100 that I have simply buying a 18-20 inch barrel would do it along with pulling out the plug.
With some of the old guns I have 520, Reminton 11, Rem M10, S&W 3000, Beretta 301A, riot barrels may be available and taking them to the local gun smith to have them cut down is an option.  All I can say about cutting them down is they will require a larger front post or they will shoot high  You may want to slick up the recoil pad as well so it is smooth and comes up to your shoulder quickly and easily.
12, 16 or 20ga are all choices.  Bird shot, Buck, and slugs are all options, depending on the layout of the house and the yardage.
If you have up to 100 yards around the house then slugs are an option.
If you are in a complex bird shot may be what you want so it does not carry through walls and you do not have to worry about wounding a neighbor or family member when shooting in or into a hall way.


Offline Victor3

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2010, 06:02:18 PM »
If you are in a complex bird shot may be what you want so it does not carry through walls and you do not have to worry about wounding a neighbor or family member when shooting in or into a hall way.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

"We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds."

"A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this."

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline tacklebury

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2010, 06:07:21 PM »
Birdshot works ok if you aim for face & throat, groin or stomach...  These areas will be highly effective.  Just don't shoot arms, legs or back side...  Most people pull their shots consciously or subconsciously many times. 
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline don heath

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2010, 07:57:42 PM »
On Shot size...

AAA doesn't always penetrate the skull- even at close range. I picked up a well scratched friedn who failed to stop a leopard with a face full of AAA...I followed up and finished the leopard off. He had hit it full in the face at about three paces. Leopard lost an eye and alot of damage but nothing penetrated the skull.

Later i found the official report on why AAA was dropped as an option during our bush war- Wouldn't reliably penetrate a wet greycoat or a skull.

Hang a tight weave wet blanket loosley over a washing line and put a target inside...you would be surprised what it will stop (from first hand experience .38 S&W...) On a warm summers day, most things work reasonably well. On a cold stormy night...you need alot more penetration and I couldn't be bothered with having summer loads, rainy season loads and winter loads.  No 4 Buck (SSSG) will penetrate enough for most occasions and improves hit probability as the ranges open. In both my Mossberg and Wifes Benneli they pattern well enough to gain at least one hit out to 100m.. but so does SSG (No 2 Buck) in my shotgun...and that works under all conditions. Just wish I could find some 3" SSG shells. (I like to have a 3" in the chamber) 

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2010, 02:54:53 AM »
 In an effort to not cloud the facts with personal opinion I will only offer that anyone serious about using bird shot or buck shot check out " IN THE BOX " There you can see the effects in actual test.

 I will offer also what several instructors have said with regard to bird shot . If the purpose of bird shot is to not pass thru. sheetrock what good is it ? A fist can go thru. sheetrock with ease but never heard of one going thru. someones chest . This might have some merit like in the case of heavy leather coats etc. When we look at it in the light of the failure of bullets from carbines in Korea shooting # 1 buck dia. bullets at higher speed (1900 fps vs 1200 fps ) and failing to go thru. the quilted uniforms of the NK.

If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2010, 08:16:03 AM »
When I was looking for a home defense shotgun a few years back I was looking for a mossie 590 or a remmie 870. There are alot of good choices out there, looking at it from the wrong end I wouldn't care if it said whizbang on the receiver, all I would see is HOLE. I did figure cost in as well. I settled on a used 20" remmie 870 police gun with rifle sights and an IC bore,I like it, added a two shot extension and swivels. Its a 2 3/4" gun and thats fine. Its dialed for slugs at 100yds and 00 works well to about 30 yds. and starts to open up after that. Since then I have fired a benelli m-4, really liked it may never own one but..... I would like to fire a saiga, maybe I'll meet someone at the range some day that will let me test drive one.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2010, 08:33:46 AM »
Sorry for starting this.
I see 7.5 in the 1 1/8 oz loads as being inside the house defense loads.
I have seen them kill a deer at close range.  20 feet.  The longest distance in the house I was living when I took sheet rock and 2X4's out to the range and did some tests as to what would and would not go through and what would break balloons o nthe other side of the wall.  The test did two things told me what would go through a wall and what would not.  
At 20 feet the wad is still with the shot and pokes a hole in the wall.
The loads did mean things to a Beef Brisket hanging in front of the wall.  Truned it into hamberger where the shot went through.  A shot to the stomach, thigh, head, or upper chest is going to do some damage at 20 feet with out the worry of punching through the wall to the kids room, or the next door neighbors bedroom.  We did find that 00 and #1 buck went right through the wall  and still held a good pattern.  Insulation caused problems but the buck was able to still break balloons 5 feet behind the wall.  Depends on what your game plan is.  Move to the kids room, carry shot, get in the kids room and hunker there waiting for the police, swap to Buck to go thought the door and walls at anyone trying to get into the room.
If you are not worried about family or neighbors in the house or apartment block use Buck and Slugs.
If you are outside or shooting out of the house, use Buck or slugs or a mix of them.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2010, 08:54:52 AM »
I cleaned a deer my dad shot with a 30-30 that another guy shot with #6 shot . We saw him shoot as the deer passed by close and thought he missed as there was no big hole. While cleaning the deer the liver looked bad with lots of little balls in and on it . Come to find out it was a load of #6 shot . The guy was rabbit hunting .
 I don't doubt a word you posted mcwoodduck but point out that in some cases the bird shot may be lacking . I would rather give myself every possible advantage . If you have confronted a bad guy and he is shooting at you from behind conclement would it not be better to have a load that can go thru. and neturalize him ( this is my opinion) . Same could be said if someone was shooting at your house ( this happens where I live) would it not be good to have something that could go thru. sheetmetal and stop the shooting ? I have a friend who rented a house he owned to drug dealers. Times got bad and he had to move back into the house . I went by and he showed me holes in the brick wall . Since they went thru. the inside wall and on out the back it looked like shotgun slugs ( hole was about the right size). I would say in most cases slugs are a bit much in urban settings. But # 3-000 buck seems about right to me.  The attacker might be on pcp or worst
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2010, 10:50:03 AM »
Shoot all, No doubt.
Had a friend's kid kill a doe in NC on a deer drive.  I thought the kid had buck shot in the gun and the deer ran inside of 20 feet away,
the kid swung and dumped a load into the neck and piled up the deer.
I thought the kid had buck till he said it was 7.5's as he did not like the kick of the buck shot.  No one told the kid it would not work.
My Uncle tells of shooting a doe with 8's from 20 yards and chasing it all over Pamlico county trying to kill it.
I have shot #3 at a buck 40 yards away to have the deer run off.  No Blood,  I chased that deer till I was sure the load did nothing to it.
I think distance is everything.  Under 20 feet I do not think it will matter.  Over that ......
Let's just say I have killed deer with 00 and 000 buck and now carry a rifle when I can, and slugs when I can not.
But like anything you have some times that work and sometimes that don't.  Buck from inside house and room distances works just be sure of your back stop.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2010, 11:03:55 AM »
I think its time to mention no gun and shot gun in particular are any good with bad ammo. I shot a buck at about 15 yards 3 times with remington 00 3 in mags . It turned to run and dad killed it with 3 in #1 winchester one shot. My shells were bad though just bought. All three loads were just under the skin on the side i shot . They didn't even knock the spike off his feet. This is why earlier i mentioned sealed shells and also why we see such different results at times. As a side it seems around here a kid kills a nice deer with a 410 ever couple years . The last one 76 yards a nice 10 pointer . The shell had 3 buck shot pellets and all three hit the deer , not sure where they hit. What are the odds of that ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline tacklebury

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2010, 01:24:59 PM »
I definitely am not suggesting that bird shot is the "way to go" for self defense, just saying if you have it in the gun and someone breaks in, just make sure your placement is good.  ;)  Removing eyes is a pretty decent way of slowing/incapacitating a would-be attacker.  ;)
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline Couger

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2010, 11:42:50 AM »
Sorry to chime in late here!  For those interested, "The Shotgun in Combat" (I believe that is the correct title, if its still in print) by Tony Lesce is an eye-opener when considering shotgun loads in the house with traditional 2X4 and sheetrock construction.

Been long enough since I read it, altho I need to review what he said about buckshot and over-penetration.  However Lesce did say a standard (American) trap load (1200fps with 1.125ozs of shot) is a potent home-defense load, esp with #7 1/2 shot.  Consider that ranges a badguy (BG) would be shot will be measured in feet vs. yards.  #7 1/2 shot is easily going to damge BG's carotid artery, and if hit the neck!,  wanna bet he'd be "sick" real quick?

Lesce had abundant photos and the one with a Winchester "AA" trap load shot at a sheetrock wall showed most of the load stopped (and the wad) before damaging the second layer of "rock!"

Also most knowledgeable shooters (and persons involved in combat or LE-firefights) generally agree #4Buck gives good performance because of the high number of pellets in a pattern, even a 2 3/4inche load!  (there are 27 .24-caliber pellets in a standard 4B load,  and 34 pellets in a  "baby magnum" 2 3/4" load. 

A favorite #4B load of mine used to be the Winchester Super-X Double-X magnums from the 1970's and 80's.  That load shot 34 copper-plated #4B pellets, and once enabled me to kill two mule deer when that was the only weapon i had that year!  Both at over 50yds.  The forked-horn buck had his hind legs crippled  and I was able to make a finishing shot.  The doe was a bang-flop when being hit in the brain.

I also once killed a raven at 90 or so yards with the same load.  I led the big black bird by 20-30 feet and fired.  After what seemed like several moments the raven started erattically flying in several crazy circles before folding and plummenting to the ground.  Whan I casually hade made my way to the bird (waiting for that opeing morning of the pheasant season at 8 a.m.), I examined the raven.  It had a single hole through its breast and heart, a complete pas-trough!  Yeah I hit the bird out of luck, but the post mortem sure suggested what the #4B's were/are capable of.

Offline Couger

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2010, 10:51:01 AM »
ADDED:

I failed to mention .....  the day I killed the two mulies with #4 Buck, I had also hunted earlier that morning with some Winchester 3in 12ga 00Buck loads, 15 pellets in the pattern.

Had 2 or three broadside shots at deer closer than 40 yards, and could find absoluetly no sign I had even hit them!  After shooting my five rounds of 00B and the hours of my hunt running out, I resprted to the #4B loads.

I have never trusted nor had faith in 00B!  Single-ought buck however, for some silly reason patterns well with my 12ga SG's where 00B just does not!  Go figure.   ;)

Offline don heath

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #48 on: November 01, 2010, 08:57:32 PM »
Couger...I have never seen American OO or english SG (same thing) pattern well. And trust me, I have tried them in a lot of shotguns ranging from doubles to S&W & Mossberg pumps and beretta and Benneil semi Auto's. SG was never popular in the old days but we 'aquired' 5000 rounds of 2½" OO for anti poaching use. Also had 1000 rnds of 2 3/4 and some 3". English LG (OOO) is what the Black folk want for lion and leopard at night. Some brands pattern ok in some shotguns.

SPsG (O) buck and SSG (No 2 buck) have always given me consistent patterns in all open bore guns. If the shotgun has more than minimal choke then SSG or No 4 (SSSG) give the best patterns...which is why I supose SSG is the most popular shot size by far in Africa. Works well on small antelope and all the way up to lion in a pinch

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2010, 06:00:12 AM »
Both # 1 and 0 are hard to find , low sales. 00 and 000 are what alot of hunters here use. To be honest with the exception of #3 and #4 most buck out of a normal/standard bbl isn't much . But here we must use buck on deer in several counties, its law. There is alot of smiths who produce good bbls for buck. Most build a bbl to shoot a size and brand of shot. The one that does my work has done buck shot tubes for a long time and has records on what works in most guns. He cut a 30 inch full choke rem 870 bbl to 23 3/4 inches installed a briley xxx full tube that he had tweaked , extended the forcing cone and such . At 35 yards you can lay a ball cap over the pattern of 000 buck. I had several problems with it , first it is way to tight with a bead sight on running deer. And second it takes out both front shoulders when you shoot a standing deer if you aim at the shoulder. So I took it back and now have a tuned XX full tube that gives a bit larget pattern.My second bbl had rifle sights and works way better  My dad wanted to use #1 and the smith made him one but said #1 was the hardest in a 12 ga to get to tighten up the pattern. For a security shot gun I suggest a screw in choke and mod tube for buck and foster slugs . I have used this set up a long time and it works well .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Old Syko

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2010, 08:45:11 AM »
I have never seen American OO or english SG (same thing) pattern well. And trust me, I have tried them in a lot of shotguns ranging from doubles to S&W & Mossberg pumps and beretta and Benneil semi Auto's.

I agree and have seen the same.  The shorter barrels preferred for indoor/home defense make the situation even that much worse.  Most patterns remind me of throwing a hand full of rocks.  My preference for home defense is a reliable pump gun, in my case an 870, with a short barrel, 20" or under, loaded with #4 buck, and I don't care if it has sights of any kind or not since I'll be instinct shooting anyway.  After all this is what I practice.  If I'm going to be outdoors I'm not likely to be using a shotgun for defense anyway.  Of coarse here in Indiana we don't see many fleet footed big cats. :D

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2010, 09:23:18 AM »
With all respect bbl length has little effect on pattern once the powder has burned it has expanded. Forcing cone to a small degree and choke length , angle going into choke , constriction in relation to the rest of the bbl  , and shape of tube bore all effect patterm more.
I would add that when shooting in a self defense situation it is helpful to have sights or some means to know where your muzzle is pointed . Across a 15 foot room your pattern most likely even from a cyl bore bbl won't exceed a few inches in dia. or less. Some advoicate wraping a white rag at the business end or putting on white tape for low light use. This would help you know where you are pointing. I would expect a large white bead sight ( I have used the bead)or a night sight would work as well. It would be nice to have a sight that would be easy to pick up while not taking eyes off target. I agree that the short BBl. makes the situatition much worst in that the shorter the BBL. the harder it is to control the muzzle as less movement on the shooters part can cover more target area with the muzzle , same as a handgun .
 OLD  SYKO , please don't take that as a cut on you it is not or on don heath. It is what I have learned over the years. Where i grew up hunting shotgun was the law. We couldn't even use slugs in many places. Where we lived a rifle bullet would go thru. several walls and walls were in every direction . As far as a 20 inch cyl. bore rem 870 pump with only a small bead sight being good protection - of course it is and I would not feel under gunned. But if better choices exist why not explore them ? Over the years I have helped a buddy who is a gun smith test most 12 and 20 ga. guns with single bbls.( auto's and pumps ) My own guns which include autos , pumps, DBL bbls -both SXS and O/U and single shot long guns and hand gun size. Each is a lesson into it self as far as what shoots good in it .
The reason I like sights and choke is maybe not all attacks will come at arms length. We have people shoot into homes here 00 or 000 are better in this case to return fire. Some homes have narrow fields of fire and accy is important ( missing a childs room is important) . Hope i have not offended anyone but it is a subject I have strong feelings about .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2010, 12:09:03 PM »
Remington 870,12 ga., slug barrel, and 3 shot tube extension, which brings it to just an inch short of the barrel. Gives me 8 shots in the tube, 1 in the pipe. Ammo is reduced recoil 00buck, or slugs.
Nice thing about my set up, I won the gun in a raffle, traded for the tube extension, which means I have about $10 in the whole thing. Sometimes life is good. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2010, 10:34:45 AM »
Remington 870,12 ga., slug barrel, and 3 shot tube extension, which brings it to just an inch short of the barrel. Gives me 8 shots in the tube, 1 in the pipe. Ammo is reduced recoil 00buck, or slugs.
Nice thing about my set up, I won the gun in a raffle, traded for the tube extension, which means I have about $10 in the whole thing. Sometimes life is good. gypsyman
So if I offer you tripple your money in to the gun would you sell it?   ;)

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #54 on: November 15, 2010, 02:01:35 AM »
I see that and raise a dollar !  ;D
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2010, 03:46:45 AM »
You guys are all heart, but I think I'll hang on to it. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline no guns here

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2010, 07:09:37 AM »
I trust that 5 rounds of 2 3/4 inch #4 Turkey loads would be sufficient.  Can't imagine not getting someone to STOP and pay attention to the ceiling at down the hall distances.  My thought has always been to shoot for the gut and keep pulling the trigger until he's down or I'm out and then long gun goes down and the short gun comes up.


NGH
"I feared for my life!"

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2010, 06:29:25 AM »
When we talk defense we often suggest bird shot as the end all in that it will stop and attack at short distance. Then follow it with but it won't go thru much sheetrock. I would ask the question what if you must shoot thru. a wall to end the attack ? Its my thought that not all defense shooting will be at someone in the open. Should we not be ready for the worst case and thankful when it is not needed ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline SwampThing762

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2010, 02:30:40 PM »
I still stand by my Mossberg 930 Autoloader.  I also am getting the slug barrel soon.  The sslug barrel and magazine extension makes one serious hunting shotgun.  The smoothbores work for birds and security.

ST762
We learned the true nature of Islam on 11 Sept 2001.

Show your appreciation for Islam....eat more bacon.

"Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam." (Not to us Lord, not us, but to your name give the glory)  -- Knights Templar motto

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Which shotgun..
« Reply #59 on: November 18, 2010, 09:22:01 AM »
When we talk defense we often suggest bird shot as the end all in that it will stop and attack at short distance. Then follow it with but it won't go thru much sheetrock. I would ask the question what if you must shoot thru. a wall to end the attack ? Its my thought that not all defense shooting will be at someone in the open. Should we not be ready for the worst case and thankful when it is not needed ?
When we lugged building supplies to the range and shot stuff ar walls we also shot stuff close to the wall to see if we can breach the wall.
Slugs were the best followed by 00.  but hitting the target a few feet behind the wall was not a sure thing goung through the wall the slugs sailed through and for the most part went strait.
So if you going to shoot through a wall to get at someone trying to break donw your door or pry it open - Slugs are going to be your best bet.