Author Topic: CNBC investigation of the model 700 (Read 13886 times)

Squib · « **Reply #90 on:** October 31, 2010, 01:20:20 PM »

what about you swampman... you like rems so much and you're 50ish? so you've been exposed to all the tricks and gimmicks for cleaning and tuning them with the old and new models.

do you know much about the internals of the first x-mark?

Swampman · « **Reply #91 on:** October 31, 2010, 01:22:19 PM »

It's lubricated with graphite. Mine have been perfect out of the box so I haven't messed with them.

scootrd · « **Reply #92 on:** October 31, 2010, 01:39:28 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 31, 2010, 12:18:12 PM

CNBC is misleading. The is no problem with factory adjusted triggers or the Remington 700.

All the documented facts have been available for many many years.

So Mr. Walker is a liar in your eyes?

Swampman · « **Reply #93 on:** October 31, 2010, 01:41:08 PM »

He absolutely is.

scootrd · « **Reply #94 on:** October 31, 2010, 01:59:37 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 31, 2010, 01:41:08 PM

He absolutely is.

So the designer , who while employed by Remington , who discovered the problem initially and notified his management on numerous occasions, proposed design changes and when not adopted due to $$ instituted a QA test while their to catch the problem at the factory before ship to public. The man who continued to lobby for a change to his own design even after he retired from Remington is a Liar..

You got a lot of quehones..I'll give ya ya that.. Now who's drinking the Kool-aid.

Swampman · « **Reply #95 on:** October 31, 2010, 02:02:20 PM »

I believe he has an agenda.

scootrd · « **Reply #96 on:** October 31, 2010, 02:12:39 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 31, 2010, 02:02:20 PM

I believe he has an agenda.

He must have been carrying this so called agenda since 1962.

Swampman · « **Reply #97 on:** October 31, 2010, 02:18:39 PM »

I believe he was.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #98 on:** October 31, 2010, 02:54:23 PM »

go to the reminton website and read there side of this railroading. There were no real credibal witnesses on that show. even the soldiers that were shown cant be located. One of the most blantant attemps by the antis in modern times. You guys that are taking the side of that show are doing nothing but fueling the anti gun sentiment in this country. If you dont want to buy a remington dont. Its your choise and nobodys forcing you. There (censored word) guns not nurf toys. What your asking for you might get. More restrictions on gun sales more frivolus saftey systems like we see on smith and ruger handguns and higher prices for the guns we buy if we can even expect to be able to keep buying them. Make them look even more dangerous and i can gurantee you that will happen. 20 years ago if you accidently shot someone with a firearm they would either have called it an accident or found you to be lacking in gun handling safety and possibly procecuted you. Now if you do it both you and the man you shot can suit the gun manufacture and probably the ammo manufacture and the dealer who sold you the gun and you get to retire in the tropics. What a (censored word) world. Ask for the goverment to take more control of your life and believe me they wil.

wareagleguy · « **Reply #99 on:** October 31, 2010, 05:40:44 PM »

If a rifle fires when the safety is flipped off is a problem. Anyone know if a Savage Accutrigger model has done this?

Augustis · « **Reply #100 on:** November 01, 2010, 03:33:58 AM »

Quote from: Squib on October 31, 2010, 01:20:20 PM

what about you swampman... you like rems so much and you're 50ish? so you've been exposed to all the tricks and gimmicks for cleaning and tuning them with the old and new models.

do you know much about the internals of the first x-mark?

Squib - Are you talking about the design featured in the CNBC piece, the "type 1" fire control system that featured a ball bearing trigger block system?

Aug ><>

Range Rider · « **Reply #101 on:** November 01, 2010, 04:29:36 AM »

The Remington actions came under fire back in the early 1960s. Dupoint owned Remington in those days. A father and son were deer hunting. The sons rifle discharges and killed the father. The court ruled in favor of the son and Dupoint paid the largest claim ever against a firearm company. This was all out court settlelment so we don't how much. Do Remingtons fire when the saftey is pushed forward? Yes I have had this happen. Do they fire when the bolt is closed. Yes this happens most often after some one has tried to adjust the trigger. What is going on with all this? For years the left has claimed that firearms production should be under the supervision of the federal government? They want the BATF and congress to over see all small arms production. The left has tried this many times before. This puts fear in all companies in the U.S. It is because of this that the firearms companies are supported by the larger production firms in America. The left is very up set that Obama has not led the fight for gun control. This is a warning shot from the left. The gun control tactics of the Democrats and the powerful labor unions are starting to move.

RR

1marty · « **Reply #102 on:** November 03, 2010, 05:23:47 PM »

NBC is the most anti-gun network. If, it was coming from someone else it would be half way believable. I have found some guys "screw" around with the triggers and don't have a clue what they are doing. I've had several 700's through the years and never had an "accident".

Squib · « **Reply #103 on:** November 03, 2010, 07:01:09 PM »

I'm talking about the x-mark that came out in '07 with the vtr models. it's a smooth-faced trigger, no screw coming out. other than that I don't know what the differences are between it and the current x-mark.

it is creep and grit free, always a surprise trigger break, though a bit stiff if dry. beyond that I don't really know the internals and it's not something I'm going to ever learn by tinkering if I cannot get ahold of the diagrams/schematics showing my the sear engagement- do you have any specs or info?

smokepole06 · « **Reply #104 on:** November 04, 2010, 02:29:19 PM »

Please go to this and watch. It takes a while. At the 7 minute mark see what the Marines said about tampering.

video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YFIwoZsWHk

documents:

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0Bxe2Flqdm0_wZGFlY2MyYjYtOTgzNi00YzAzLWEyNjktOTlkMmRkMjgzYTBh&hl=en

243dave · « **Reply #105 on:** November 05, 2010, 03:19:34 AM »

I wish Remington would adress what Mr. Walker had to say, in my eyes he is the only creditable person in the CNBC report, but Remington never has except to say he has been retired since 1975 and the reporters barged into his home. Its hard to ignore what Mr. Waker said along with a few other experienced shooters on this forum. I won't ever get rid of the older 700's I have and have never had a problem but I'm aware that there is a problem and will be sure not to turn a blind eye at the issue. Dave

Swampman · « **Reply #106 on:** November 05, 2010, 05:34:52 AM »

No there isn't a problem except with those who tinkered with their guns, or failed to maintain them properly.

texagun · « **Reply #107 on:** November 05, 2010, 06:32:16 AM »

Quote

I wish Remington would adress what Mr. Walker had to say, in my eyes he is the only creditable person in the CNBC report, but Remington never has except to say he has been retired since 1975 and the reporters barged into his home.

Remington addressed the issue in the reference given in the post just prior to yours:

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0Bxe2Flqdm0_wZGFlY2MyYjYtOTgzNi00YzAzLWEyNjktOTlkMmRkMjgzYTBh&hl=en

"The 1948 design shown by CNBC is very dissimilar to the
X-Mark Pro and, in fact, was not even Mr. Walker’s, but that
of another Remington engineer.

CNBC also did not note that Mr. Walker’s 1948 proposal would
have left the connector in place, or that when Mr. Walker
designed the Model 700 in the early 1960s, he maintained the
connector and incorporated a sear blocking safety mechanism,
consistent with prior designs."

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #108 on:** November 05, 2010, 06:33:48 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on November 05, 2010, 05:34:52 AM

No there isn't a problem except with those who tinkered with their guns, or failed to maintain them properly.

Then Remington should say that for the record . Like Obama's citizenship it would seem the chance to offer proof would be welcome by both.

243dave · « **Reply #109 on:** November 05, 2010, 07:18:53 AM »

Texagun, They did not address what Mr. Walker said. We know the X-mark/ X mark pro is not the Waker design and was never said to be a problem in the CNBC report. The X-mark trigger did not come out until 2007, what about all the triggers from 1948 until then ?? They are Walker designed triggers, millions of them. When the designer who knows more about the 700 series rifles than everyone on this forum combined says there may be a problem and has proposed solutions since the late 40's, we might want to listen. Dave

texagun · « **Reply #110 on:** November 05, 2010, 09:13:03 AM »

Quote from: 243dave on November 05, 2010, 07:18:53 AM

....what about all the triggers from 1948 until then ?? They are Walker designed triggers, millions of them.

I must have misunderstood Remington's reply. It looks to me like they are denying that the 1948 trigger was designed by Walker, but rather by another engineer.

"The 1948 design shown by CNBC is very dissimilar to the
X-Mark Pro and, in fact, was not even Mr. Walker’s, but that
of another Remington engineer."

Squib · « **Reply #111 on:** November 05, 2010, 07:08:57 PM »

just because one person says something doesn't make it true, even if he/she is/was an expert. people can be wrong, or bought off, or medicated, or misled into saying something out of context, or senile. that guy looked like he'd die in his sleep if his electric blanket got unplugged, and the brain is an organ that deteriorates just like everything else... factor that in with how slanted edited soundbites can be, and the news bias... I don't mean to disrespect the man but he seemed pretty out of it, and I doubt he'd speak to the media on camera like he did if he had any idea what was going on.

they could have got him going on telling "war stories" about his trials and accomplishments as a designer/engineer and he'd go on about his achievements keeping products safe and moving forward and of course that controversial trigger issue would come up, but taken out of context intentionally and edited it looked like he bashed remington intentionally. I doubt that he did it, and I doubt he was even aware that the interviewers had that intention. His lack of awareness means that he is either an overly trusting and warm person, or senile- jmo though.

243dave · « **Reply #112 on:** November 06, 2010, 10:35:29 AM »

Squib, Even if Mr. Walker was senile during the interview, do you think he was senile back in the late 40's when he submitted his first design change ?? How about the other times throughout the years ?? Maybe we watched different programs but for a man in his 90's he seemed pretty sharp to me. That man was neither senile or overly trusting, but he was honest. It takes a good, honest man to admitt perhaps something you designed could have a flaw. I don't know if I would do the same but I hope so. Dave

Squib · « **Reply #113 on:** November 06, 2010, 03:04:03 PM »

that's just it, we don't know. I'm not really questioning the reality of the flaw either, I DO believe it. I do NOT believe in the frequency or ease of negligent discharges due to it though.... especially considering the anti-gun source. watching that guy just tap the bolt to bump-fire over and over really seemed staged to me, like someone wanted a .8 ounce trigger to show off to the camera. I wonder if that was even possible without polishing the sear engagement to virtually nothing? if it WAS legit, then why couldn't the armorer tighten the trigger assembly back up to safe specs? that's an armorer's job as far as I know.... I can't understand why they'd come running to the media WITHOUT being bribed, if they were in fact professionals as portrayed.

as I said above, we don't know. we know the source pushing the info is suspect though, so check YOUR GUNS and go back to life as usual once you've done your maintenance.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #114 on:** November 06, 2010, 05:40:44 PM »

Anyone remember when NBC said Chevy gas tanks explode with a side hit? They had to plant charges in them to get them to explode on camera, then showed it on TV, not admitting to the explosive charges until they were caught!!

If it was so common for 700 triggers to fire when taking them off safe, how come it hasn't to me? I've owned them since the 70's.

DM

243dave · « **Reply #115 on:** November 06, 2010, 11:37:52 PM »

Squib, I agree entirely with your last post. The rifles on video seemed to be adjusted by someone wanting a 8oz. trigger, I've done the samething with the older savage triggers and never blamed it on the manufacture and I definately realized my mistake long before I made it to the range with the rifle. DM, I can't remember the particulars on the Chevy--NBC thing but I'm sure the media have and always will exaggerate and plain out lie to sensationalize a story. I've never had a problem with my 700's either and all my triggers have been adjusted by me, ANY trigger can be made unsafe if improperly adjusted. Personally I've always loved the ease and adjustability of the 700 triggers but I'm now aware there could be a problem but I don't have no first hand proof of it. Dave

Drilling Man · « **Reply #116 on:** November 07, 2010, 02:55:16 AM »

GM filed a bazillion dollar lawsuit on NBC, and NBC ended up having to give a public apology on air, admitting to their deed, before GM backed off.

DM

Doug B. · « **Reply #117 on:** November 07, 2010, 04:43:33 AM »

Quote from: Drilling Man on November 07, 2010, 02:55:16 AM

GM filed a bazillion dollar lawsuit on NBC, and NBC ended up having to give a public apology on air, admitting to their deed, before GM backed off.

DM

Good!

30-30man · « **Reply #118 on:** November 07, 2010, 04:19:43 PM »

Well let's see, Remington has never sent a firearm to the market before all the bugs were worked out. They have never left the consumer out to dry with a flawed design...I guess the 740,742,7400..Viper.....597 were just made by another engineer from another company and labeled Remington? I think their story smells like BS....I just wish they would man up and cover problems...I might buy another Remington if I felt like they would stand behind their mistakes, but then again their track record in that department is nonexistent..

Swampman · « **Reply #119 on:** November 08, 2010, 05:01:51 AM »

There are no problems or mistakes. Please don't buy another Remington you might hurt yourself.