Hunting Private Land

[Spirithawk]

I posted this elsewhere on here in response to another's post complaining about nowhere to hunt. I think it's a subject we all run into so I'm posting this here too. This is just my opinion and I'd like to hear you all's too;

[Quote; The right to hunt and fish does not mean much unless one has a place to hunt or fish. In Nebraska when I was a kid one could hunt anywhere unless the ground was posted, and if one posted his land he was more or less considered a #%^&!. That changed in the late '60's and early '70's when farmers decided that although they hunted anywhere they wanted to as youths they would not accomidate the next generation of youths. The older generations are not always nice!]

My response;
I think there are several reasons for that. It use to be that farms and ranches, and land in general, had been handed down through families and everyone in the area knew each other. Now folks, moving to the country  from the city, have bought up many farms and ranches and much of the land in general. They have a whole another mind set than the old timers. Most figure that if they bought the land with their hard earned money then it's going to be them that enjoys it, not someone they don't even know. Also, all too often, when permission is given, it's abused. Many times I've seen one or two people, who got permmission to hunt, bring a bunch of friends who don't have permission. Or show up with a case of beer, get wasted and shoot at every thing that moves including livestock. Teens that think it's permission to bring their buddies and girlfriends to a place to party that their parents don't know about. People that leave closed gates open, leave trash behind, or just disrespect the landowners in every way imaginable. That kind of behavior is more common than not and not the way to make friends of land owners. One bad experience ruins it for everyone and the land gets posted. The owner tells his neighbors and their land gets posted too! Also, if one or two get permission, then everyone that comes after won't. Land will only support so many hunters. My son and I have found that if you aproach a land owner respectively, dressed presentable, offer to help with his chores, offer to share your harvest if you have a good hunt, give refferances if possible, and offer to drop everything and stop your hunt to report anything that the owner should be made aware of, such as ill livestock, tresspassers, fences down, ect., all goes a long way in gaining the trust and respect of a landowner and makes it much more likely to get permission to hunt. Hunting on private land is a privlage not a right.

[guzzijohn]

As a land owner much of what Spirithawk says has been my experience. Also, right or wrong I feel that I paid for this land and I have to pay property taxes and insurance so why should I let others hunt or fish free? Does anyone ask the firearms/ammo companies for free guns and ammo to hunt? Should a hunter get a free ATV to hunt with? If I have a neighbor that wants to do an occasional hunt or fish I will let them on free but not strangers. There are just to many jerks out there that abuse hunting and fishing privileges.
GuzziJohn

[Spirithawk]

As a land owner much of what Spirithawk says has been my experience. Also, right or wrong I feel that I paid for this land and I have to pay property taxes and insurance so why should I let others hunt or fish free? Does anyone ask the firearms/ammo companies for free guns and ammo to hunt? Should a hunter get a free ATV to hunt with? If I have a neighbor that wants to do an occasional hunt or fish I will let them on free but not strangers. There are just to many jerks out there that abuse hunting and fishing privileges.
GuzziJohn

That's another good point. In a time when people jump at the chance to file law suits over the slightest thing, liability is a big issue. Someone gets hurt, reasonable accident or through stupidity, and the landowner gets sued. Even if the land owner wins he's out the time, money and agravation of dealing with it. Easier to just say no!

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Spirthawk:

That's another good point. In a time when people jump at the chance to file law suits over the slightest thing, liability is a big issue. Someone gets hurt, reasonable accident or through stupidity, and the landowner gets sued. Even if the land owner wins he's out the time, money and agravation of dealing with it. Easier to just say no!

At least Kansas offers more protection to landowners concerning hunter injuries than most states but it still does not mean you won't get sued and have to spend a fortune to defend yourself.
GuzziJohn

[Hooker]

Hunting as we know it is dieing and will soon become the sport of kings and the privileged.
It does torque me some when farmers draw large tax payer funded subsidy and CRP checks then want to charge hunters upwards of $2500 a gun for hunting.
Where I hunt now we use to hunt for free now we pay a lease in 2012 it will go to an online bid and we will say good bye to place we have hunted most of our lives.

Pat
 

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Hooker:

It does torque me some when farmers draw large tax payer funded subsidy and CRP checks then want to charge hunters upwards of $2500 a gun for hunting.

Those tax payer funded checks are huge alright. I received a grand total of about $600 last year on a total of 560 acres. I don't think I will get any this year due to grain prices. Better than nothing however.
GuzziJohn

[guzzijohn]

By the way my property taxes and insurance run around $4,000 a year.
GuzziJohn

[SHOOTALL]

When I was in my teens I could walk miles hunting . Then as mentioned yuppies moved out to the country and would buy enough land to build a house in most cases 5 acres and in many cases they thought they could rule the county. Often they would let their kids run wild over others land. In other cases slobs left their mark on others land. Farmers got fed up and closed off the land . Fast forward 20 years and farmers looking to offset cost figure out hunters will pay to play. Then they find out rich hunters will pay alot to play. In Va. we have 100's acres of plblic hunting so it is no big deal . We pay 6-12 dollars an acre to rent land for a season from timber cos and land owners. I'm just glad there is a place to hunt .

[lakota]

I can see the point of the landowner however, I had "permission" to hunt a parcel of property. In exchange I offered to help the guy cut wood to heat his house. I must have put in 50-60 hours and cut and split about 8 cords of wood for this guy. I split it by hand with a maul. I got to hunt the property once. Every weekend I got dozens of voice mails from this guy threatening to revoke my permission unless I got out there and cut more wood. I am not against working to hunt but I feel this guy took advantage of me and really had no intention of letting me hunt there.

[guzzijohn]

Quote from lakota:

I can see the point of the landowner however, I had "permission" to hunt a parcel of property. In exchange I offered to help the guy cut wood to heat his house. I must have put in 50-60 hours and cut and split about 8 cords of wood for this guy. I split it by hand with a maul. I got to hunt the property once. Every weekend I got dozens of voice mails from this guy threatening to revoke my permission unless I got out there and cut more wood. I am not against working to hunt but I feel this guy took advantage of me and really had no intention of letting me hunt there.

I would say that you were being taken advantage of. Next time try the old trick of calling the sheriff department and tell them that you saw the guy hide drugs in his wood. They will come out and split it nicely for you.
GuzziJohn

[Sourdough]

Here in Alaska the Federal Government owns 74% of the land.  They are locking it up as fast as they can.  Even thought Carter said "NO MORE" when he signed ANILCA.  But large portions are still open to hunting.

The State owns 24% and most of it is open to hunting.

2% is in private hands and is usually closed.

The State owns all the Navitagiable waters and submurged lands.  In others words all Rivers and the land from high water mark to high water mark on each bank.  That gives us the right to hunt along any river and it's banks.  Currently we are in dispute with the Federal Government, they are claiming authority on the rivers and the banks.  Looks like we are going to be taking them to court over their aggression.

[SHOOTALL]

Here in Alaska the Federal Government owns 74% of the land.  They are locking it up as fast as they can.  Even thought Carter said "NO MORE" when he signed ANILCA.  But large portions are still open to hunting.

The State owns 24% and most of it is open to hunting.

2% is in private hands and is usually closed.

The State owns all the Navitagiable waters and submurged lands.  In others words all Rivers and the land from high water mark to high water mark on each bank.  That gives us the right to hunt along any river and it's banks.  Currently we are in dispute with the Federal Government, they are claiming authority on the rivers and the banks.  Looks like we are going to be taking them to court over their aggression.

Be careful , Being from the SOUTH , trust me on their aggression

[Hooker]

Sourdough the feds and the state claim to own that land but it is public land it is owned by the people.
Government does not own anything in fact the government it's self is owned by the people.
Now if we can just get everyone to let them know this.

Pat

[billy_56081]

In Minnesota you can basically hunt all non agricultural non posted private land until you are told to not trespass by the land owner. We also have a law that protects the owner of the land from lawsuit if someone is hurt on thier land while hunting there with permission. I am not sure if the landowner is afforded this protection if someone is hunting there and is injured without permission or while trespassing.

And Pat, you have said a mouthfull, if only OUR government understood that we are America.

[wreckhog]

My land is unposted. My neighbor (whose mother sold the land to the person that sold it to me) hunts it as he has for 50 years. He has never asked permission. Considers himself grandfathered in. My other neighbor posts. From what I understand, everyone is annoyed at him and hunts it anyway. For me to enforce posting, I'd have to post, catch the guy, get LEO on the scene to warn him, and catch him again, and get LEO here AGAIN, to fine him. People set up tree stands, feeders (illegal), etc on my land. Funny thing is I don't hunt it unless I get lazy. Prefer to go to a hunting camp. Neighbor's nephew got a 10 point a couple hundred feet from my back deck last year.

[Brett]

As far as liability goes, it's not so much the individuals it's the insurance companies and the lawyers that are the problem.   If you get injured and file a claim with your insurance company(a reasonable thing to do, otherwise what is the point of having insurance) it is your insurance company and it's lawyers who do the suing.

I also agree that if there weren't so dang many slobs who disrespect another persons personal property, leaving trash and gut piles behind, not leaving gates the way they found them even cutting fences, etc. property owners might be more apt to allow hunters/fishermen on their land.   

[jhm]

     The SLOB hunters RUINED it for the other hunters, dont blame the LANDOWNER all he is doing is protecting his property period, he cant always tell what someone is going to be like when they show up on a weekend before hunting season wearing a decent pair of jeans and clean shirt what they will be like during hunting season all he has to go on is PAST EXPERIENCE, and for the most part it isnt good, I own land and the only people I allow to hunt are the ones I invite to come out and do so, NO walk-ins had to repair too many fences and gates had too many cattle shot just too much trash to haul off, if you dont own it you are TRESPASSING.   Jim

[guzzijohn]

A few examples of what had happened on my land over the years:

Keg parties, one party was getting ready to start a bonfire when I found them in super dry weather with the wind blowing. I should have let them light it as I think it would have burned most of the cars that were there. The good part was that in a hurry to leave before I called the sheriff, they left a nice Coleman canoe and no one ever came back to claim it.

A group of five drunk "shooters" just shooting anything and everything with shotguns. They got belligerent with me until my buddy pulled out a video camera.

Twice people have tried to run me off my own land claiming they owned it.

Wire gate cut down numerous times.

Troutlines found set without permission.

Trash on a regular basis

Sitting next to a guy at a bar that was 40 mile from my place bragging about sneaking in to fish and the more he talked the more I realized it was my property. We had an interesting conversation.

Crops driven over and knocked down.

Used condoms. What a wonderful find.

Dead game left to rot.

And people wonder why one gets touching about trespassers?
GuzziJohn

[MGMorden]

For better or for worse, things changed.  Land is worth a LOT more than it used to be.  I remember even when I was a kid in the 1980's land could be found for less than $1000 per acre easily.  Land back around the WW2 days was often available for less than $20 per acre.  People had so much of it it just wasn't worth much.  Supply and demand kicked in.  Naturally you expect higher prices over time due to inflation (everything increases in price), but land has FAR outpaced the rate of inflation.

Now when you consider the tradeover: smaller parcels, owned by more people, and now a much more valuable commodity.  Think of it like a strawberry patch.  You have strawberries behind your house that you don't use.  They don't really sell for much of anything, so it's not worth picking them to sell.  Some neighborhood kids and other folks go back there and pick them.  You don't care.  They're not worth anything anyways.  Now consider that for some reason, strawberries jump up to $100 per bushel.  You still think you're going to let people go back there and pick your strawberries for free? Probably not.

For those of us not able to join a paid hunt club, or without friends with lots of land, I think the public hunting land is a very good option.  Now I know the quality of this varies from area to area, but there are public lands out there, and in some areas they're very good.   The vast majority of my hunting is done there.  The only private land I hunt is an old field that my great-uncle owned before his death.  The current owner has allowed me to hunt there, but truthfully, I still end up hunting more in the public lands. 

And truth be told, I duck hunt more than I deer hunt anyways, and thankfully it's not possible (at least currently) for anyone to claim ownership on any open and navigable body of water.   Even if a creek runs through private land as long as there are no houses around you can still hunt it from your boat.

[Spirithawk]

Any gear I find on my property, such as deer stands, feeders, and blinds, that was left by tresspassers, becomes my property.  If I don't use it myself I give it to a friend or sell it! Anyone coming looking for it, first better have a good explanation why it was on my property, and second best get out their check book if they wish to buy it back. My neighbor, a good natured elderly fellow, use to let anyone that wanted hunt his land. Recently he had all new fence built. Withing a week it was cut in 5 places, this is only 30 acres, so jerks could ride their ATV's and dirt bikes without obstruction. His high dollar gates were taken off the hinges and driven over, mashed flat by trucks hauling out wood cut by people who did so without permission. They could have just swung the gates open, but no, they ruined them just for spite! He had a small john boat tied up at his pond to take his grandkids fishing. The boat just disapeared. His land is now posted, by me as a favor to him, and I patrol it on an ATV once a day at diferant times. In one month I caught 8 tresspassers on foot, caught a carload of teens starting to cook meth in a cave on his property, confiscated one hunting blind, fixed his fence twice, been shot at twice, had one idiot claim he owned it and argued with me till I lifted up my shirt and showed him my 9mm, and people ask why it's now posted? I never go over there, or anywhere, unarmed!

[wreckhog]

Been shot at twice? Wow. My worst/funniest story is that someone brush hogged a 500'-600'- trail on a narrow, steep area by my pond. My pond is spring fed  andused by the VFD for water, and they test a few times a year. It is not unusual for me to see guys by the pond and I tend to ignore it. Great spot, as turkeys roost in the trees and deer come to drink. Then they built a tree stand. I can't believe that I missed the tractor, I would have asked them to brush hog the entire pond. They appeared to have stopped when it got a bit swampy.

[Spirithawk]

Been shot at twice? Wow. My worst/funniest story is that someone brush hogged a 500'-600'- trail on a narrow, steep area by my pond. My pond is spring fed  andused by the VFD for water, and they test a few times a year. It is not unusual for me to see guys by the pond and I tend to ignore it. Great spot, as turkeys roost in the trees and deer come to drink. Then they built a tree stand. I can't believe that I missed the tractor, I would have asked them to brush hog the entire pond. They appeared to have stopped when it got a bit swampy.

Yep, I caught the guys that did it and held them for the sheriff. They were known low lifes and were unhappy they could no longer poach because I was regularly patroling the land on my atv. They were shooting to scare me and I caught them as they were trying to get back through the gate in their truck. They had to drive the long way around on the road, I cut through the woods on the atv. By then their rifle was stowed behind the seat. My .45 was in my hand!Could you tell your guy's my pond needs brush hogged too? lol

[mechanic]

My grandpa's place was a little over a hundred acres, and behind it was a land locked 1000 acre ranch.  The access to the ranch passed through my grandpa's place.  So in effect, we were allowed to hunt it all.  We also helped police it for the landowner.  The only way out was via the river, or the road through my grandpa's place.

Many are the times people tried to leave only to find a withered little old man with a double barrel waiting.  One took exception and stepped out and waved a pistol.  Paw Paw put two loads of #6 shot in him, and while he was flailing about, reloaded and put the muzzle to his head.  Word got out after a while, and we had no more poachers......

I fully understand why people secure their land, and with property tax as high as it is, I understand why they want money for a hunting lease.  I don't like it....but thats the world we live in now.......

Ben

[wreckhog]

The brush hog created about a 180 yard shooting lane and because of natural barriers, it was already a funnel. I could hunt it while sitting in my driveway. Just might not be safe due to the level nature of the land. Much safer from the height of a tree stand. Pretty clever of them.

[mechanic]

The brush hog created about a 180 yard shooting lane and because of natural barriers, it was already a funnel. I could hunt it while sitting in my driveway. Just might not be safe due to the level nature of the land. Much safer from the height of a tree stand. Pretty clever of them.

The least they could have done was plant you a nice food plot while they had the tractor out........

[srussell]

we get lots of big city people around here  during deer season. most are good people but you have that one %. i had some fire wood cut and stacked about 100yards from the house. two guys pulled up and started loading it up.when i ask what they were doing they told me to mind my own business they needed camp fire wood.thats when to old 12gauge came out and they went on their way.

[wreckhog]

My hunting bud's hunting bud, an ancient guy, told me ridiculous stories. He is kinda blind, kinda of an angry old racist. Last hunt, he called on the cell phone to ask if he should shoot the coyotes that were playing in front of him. Coyotes? They turned out to be cats. One time he shot someone's beagle. Says the old lady came out and hit him with a pot for killing her dog. Another time, he was hunting an orchard. Said he filled the car with so many apples, he was sitting on them. The farmer was pissed.

[Sourdough]

My Grandpa left me 360 acres up in a hollow in Tennessee.  Land is too hilly and steep to do any farming, except for about 5 acres where the house and barnn sits.  Lots of timber, and Deer.  Several springs of good water.

My Uncle was real miffed when the farm got left to me and not Him and my Dad.  I was away in the Air Force, so he decides to rent out the house.  I went home on leave and decided to go up there and go Deer Hunting.  When I got to the place about 4AM.  I saw a car parked next to the house.  Looked like someone was living there, and the yard was real trashy.  That was a surprise to me, I did not know he had rented the place.  The gate was open so I drove on around to the barn.  There sat a bunch of old junk vehicles. 

To go up the hollow you have to go through the barn.  When I went through I found several gut piles and hides from Deer inside the barn.  I got ticked.  I got back into my truck and started back up the trail to the road.  Then here is a guy standing in the road in his underwear shooting a pistol at me.  I grabed my rifle, jumped out, and hid behind one of the junk cars.  I yelled who did he think he was, and told him I had a rifle and he better stop shooting or I was going to shoot him.  When he heard I had a rifle he backed off, but told me he was not going to let me leave, he had called the Law.  He was going to charge me with trespass.

It took about 45 minutes for the sheriffs patrol to show up.  When the officers arrived this guy fired a couple more shots down my way to keep me pinned down.  Then he startes jumping up and down telling the Officers how we had been engaged in a gun battle all that time.

To Be continued. 

[slim rem 7]

i agree with hooker generally.the haves get to hunt.the have nots dont,much of the time..
 i don t have answers ..been on both sides..currently on the have not list..
i do believe in the end though it may backfire on the haves ,in a way they never imagined..
 time will tell.
 all i can do is kinda long for simpler times..but you got to live in the present,as it is today..
 the ole earth gets smaller an smaller..
 me thinks mankind will continue to be his own worst enemy..jmo

[Sourdough]

The screen statted jumping around and I could not see what I was typing so I started a new page.

Anyway after the Sheriffs Officers heard all he had to say they yelled at me and asked why I was shooting at the resident.  I yelled back for one of them to come down and check my gun and they would see it had not been fired, I that I was the owner of the farm, and wanted to know why he was trespassing or squatting on my place.  I stood up, slung the rifle over my shoulder.  Asked for them to secure that Idiots pistol.  They did so I walked up to join them.  I explained who I was and showed them my Military ID.  I told them I was the owner of the property, and I had no idea who this guy was.  The guy then claimed he had rented it from the owner and threw out my Uncles name.

I saw the light come on over at the neighbors house, so I mentioned to the Officers that all they needed to do was talk to the man living next door.  He could tell them who I was and who owned the property.  Plus he would be good for a cup of coffee.  (I did not want to take a ride in their squad car).

The neighbor backed my story 100%, cleared up the confussion for the officers.  Then while we were having coffee I mentioned what I had found in the barn.  This guy had been poaching Deer for along time, and a lot of them.  The evidence was in the barn.  We took a walk back over to the barn, and I showed them the gut piles and hides.    To be continued.