NO-GO gauge closes on 30-06 Handi.

[ncsurveyor]

I just had a case head separation, and in the process of ruling in and ruling out the causes, I just stuffed my Forstner No-go gauge in and the action closes nicely.


Should I be concerned???

[26-t]

Was the separated case a new or a reloaded case? Your chamber is long, if it locked up on a (no-Go) gage and that is not a good thing. 26-t

[ncsurveyor]

It was a reload, and while I may have reloaded it one too many times, in addition to some other issues, I'm really wondering if having a chamber outside of spec is normal on the NEF's.

[26-t]

I have seen several with loose chambers (long). Cut up some of your old brass and see if they are getting thin at the solid head area. 26-t

[jeepmann1948]

Check the gap in the barrel to receiver fit with a feeler gauge, you may have stretched the action a bit and need to shim the barrel lug. See the FAQ for more info

[ncsurveyor]

Check the gap in the barrel to receiver fit with a feeler gauge, you may have stretched the action a bit and need to shim the barrel lug. See the FAQ for more info

No gap on barrel face.

[bikerbeans]

I shot a 223 ultra with excessive headspace when I was first learning to reload CF cartridges.  It was me knocking down the shoulder too much when resizing.  The brass didn't like it much and probably not the gun either.  Accuracy suffered a bunch from this too.

You could remove metal from the breech face of your chamber to get the chamber back to correct length, assuming it isn't real deeply cut, but then  you would need to shim your 06 or swap the barrel to a different receiver in hopes of good lock up.  Maybe best to try H&R Customer Service first and see if they will solve the problem for you.  Good luck.

Getting OT a bit, but I have read posts about frame stretch on Handi CFs. Question, has anyone measured to see if it is frame stretch or setback of the pivot on the barrel lug or both?  On my 270 Win I know it was the lug (270 barrel got sloppy, other barrel that fit the same frame still locked up tight).

thanks

BB

[quickdtoo]

I don't think SB2 frames stretch, that's a TC Contender born myth IMO. However, they do flex internally and it can be seen by shooting hot loads and looking at the gap created between the top of the barrel and breech face after the shot before opening the action, more evidence is that brass won't fully chamber without sticking until it's resized. That brass will eventually separate since each time it stretches, it gets thinner. The weak link is the 3/16" pin that supports the latch, it should be bigger and supported closer to the latch so it can't flex under pressure.  If frames stretched, the barrel would be loose after shooting those hot loads, but I've yet to have a barrel loosen up on a frame, although as BB mentioned, sometimes the underlug sets back creating a loose barrel, haven't had that happen yet tho, not even on the 300WSM, that frame and underlug worked fine and was still tight when I had  Wayne turn it into a 6.5x55.

Tim

[gcrank1]

Can you use some feeler ga. or shim stock to find out just how much over the 'no-go' it is?
Is out of spec. common, yes, way more than most people realize, and on all brands and even custom barrels. IMHO this is never acceptable on a custom barrel and shouldnt be on factory, but production realities are what they are in spite of SAAMI specs.
Are there ways to compensate? Yes.....you could adjust the sizing die, but it is wrong and they did it. Will they fix it and when? Sounds like the barrel program is on hold, maybe they pull barrels from production for this?
BTW, most manuals say to only use cases 'X' number of times and toss (yeah, right, we all do that!). A good log (even a hash mark on the cartridge box label) to indicate the number of reloads for those cases is a good idea. Then you can recycle the whole lot at once (ouch).
I hope you didnt have trouble getting the rest of the case out, some can be just plain nasty and more than one chamber has been gouged by a frustrated owner.

[bikerbeans]

300 WSM?!?!?!?!?!

Must hear more!

[quickdtoo]

I ended up with Handi35's 300WSM barrel for the cost of shipping it to me, I did the underlug improvement as shown in the FAQs and fitted it to a frame, our hope was to achieve reduced loads equivalent to 30-06 Improved, with Accurate Arms tech Johan Loubser's advice to use MagPro, I worked up loads using 150gr Moly Nosler Partitions, ~2900fps was the best I could do without developing a barrel to frame to frame gap, that's not quite up to standard 150gr 30-06 velocity, I get 3000fps with 150gr Fusion ammo in my SS 30-06 Handi, that not working out I sent the barrel and frame along with a Shilen blank to Wayne to become a 6.5x55.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,105157.msg1098295097.html#msg1098295097

[moorepower]

If it closes, on a no-go gauge, send it back. There is a reason for the words no-go on it. Yes if you handload, you can blow the case out, and just bump the shoulder. The barrel is out of spec.

[Winter Hawk]

Is that the rifle I traded to you?  It was a factory installed barrel, let me know if you need help getting the factory to fix the problem.  I neck sized only, so once the brass had expanded to fit the chamber it wasn't going stretch much more.  I don't think an oversized chamber would show up in that situation.

Let me know what I can do to help!

-Winter Hawk-

[guns-o-fun]

Yeah, headspace slop is a common problem on just about any factory barrel/breach lock-up you can name...BUT...if you are getting case head separation with relatively "young" brass, you have a problem.

[ncsurveyor]

Is that the rifle I traded to you?  It was a factory installed barrel, let me know if you need help getting the factory to fix the problem.  I neck sized only, so once the brass had expanded to fit the chamber it wasn't going stretch much more.  I don't think an oversized chamber would show up in that situation.

Let me know what I can do to help!

-Winter Hawk-

Yes its that barrel, but no worries on what you can do to help.  I've attached a hooded front sight to the front and had to thread a screw hole, so H&R will void their responsibility because its a user altered barrel, I'm sure.

I tossed all my old components and started with some 1x Lake City Match brass, and will neck size only.  (I got in the habit of FL sizing because of a 243 I had with concentricity issues.)

Obviously, if the chamber is out of spec, I'll hope that good brass and neck sizing keeps me in the ball park.

[Winter Hawk]

I've attached a hooded front sight to the front and had to thread a screw hole, so H&R will void their responsibility because its a user altered barrel, I'm sure.

You might give the NEF/H&R/Marlin/Remington folks a call and explain the situation, they might come through for you.  Like my dad used to say, "You already have a 'no' answer, you might be surprized with a 'yes'."

-WH-

[quickdtoo]

I agree, they've service much more heavily modified firearms before, one had an aftermarket brake on it that I recollect specifically, it certainly won't hurt to ask. 

Tim

[gcrank1]

It aint 'no' until they say no, and even then call again 'cause the next csr might say yes. Then get that one to enter you in the system, or whatever they do, and see if they'll send you a pick-up label.

[trotterlg]

Just because the action will latch up on a no go gauge doesn't indicate it is a bad chamber.  Close it on the no go gauge and then look across the breach to see if the barrel is closed the same amount (no gap) as with nothing in the chamber.  The way a H&R is made will allow it to latch up with some case head sticking out of the chamber, (how much depends on how the latch and latch shelf engaugement is set), a bolt gun can't do this, but a break action can.  Larry

[ncsurveyor]

Just because the action will latch up on a no go gauge doesn't indicate it is a bad chamber.  Close it on the no go gauge and then look across the breach to see if the barrel is closed the same amount (no gap) as with nothing in the chamber.  The way a H&R is made will allow it to latch up with some case head sticking out of the chamber, (how much depends on how the latch and latch shelf engaugement is set), a bolt gun can't do this, but a break action can.  Larry

With the action open and the extractor pushed in all the way, the no-go gauge is recessed passed the barrel face into the chamber 0.003" (+/- I was using the depth end of my micrometers).  No case head sticks out of the chamber.

[quickdtoo]

One choice would be to expand the neck to .338" or bigger, then partially full length resize the case to form a false shoulder just enough to so it fits flush with the barrel face thereby eliminating the excess headspace. Once fire formed, don't push the shoulder back any further than needed to chamber them. 

Tim

[ncsurveyor]

I've fireformed a load of match brass and it seems to be holding up well.  Haven't shot through the lot yet, but will go with the necksizing only, and then I'll keep a careful eye on the brass.

May sacrifice a few after a reload or two and check the thickness where the last CHS occurred.

When I dumped the old brass I came across two more that were on the verge.

I probably should drop H&R a line, but as is, a custom chamber is a custom chamber, whether by intent or error.  I can live with it, as long as I know what to expect.

[quickdtoo]

If it's a factory fitted barrel, they'd likely replace it, that's assuming the gauge used represents the SAAMI max for excess headspace, but it certainly wouldn't be the first chamber they've cut too deep. 

Tim

[ncsurveyor]

Perhaps, after hunting season....


Hate to waste all the equity I have in making this thing shoot.

[quickdtoo]

Yeah, ya got the bore all broke in now!! 

Tim

[ncsurveyor]

Yeah, ya got the bore all broke in now!! 

Tim

Just as well I didn't send it back....

[bikerbeans]

Glad I never bought any of the GO & NO-GO gages!  Congrats on the nice buck and good shootin'.

BB

[quickdtoo]

Not only is it broke in, it's been bloodied!    Congrats!!! 

Tim

[gcrank1]

Or to paraphrase:
Guages?...Guages!!
We don gots to have no stinkin' guages!
My apologies to Bogy....