sooted cases question

[Dinny]

Hello everyone,
  I shot some new loads thru my H&R Handi rifle in .45LC today. The load was a 250gr Hornady FTX and H Lil Gun powder. Every one of my cases were sooted. What does that mean? Am I not using a proper diameter bullet? No pushing it fast enough? It shot very accurately, many 3-shot groups that were clover-leafed.

Thanks, Dinny

[srussell]

sounds like the brass is not expanding enough to seal the chamber and your getting blow back wont hurt a thing . might bump the load up a bit and see if that stops it

[tacklebury]

sounds like the brass is not expanding enough to seal the chamber and your getting blow back wont hurt a thing . might bump the load up a bit and see if that stops it

+1 I get this some if I drop to the 6gr. Unique range with my .45LC.  They are really accurate, but not good for much but plinking/targets.  Almost every case is sooted down about 1/2 way.  If I up the charge to 8gr. Unique, most of the sooting goes away and at 11 gr. almost none.  I don't use lil gun, but I've heard it's a little dirtier also by default. 

[gray-wolf]

What has been said is correct, the case is not expanding enough to seal up in the chamber.
What you are seeing is a little blow by of burnt powder.
  Lil gun is a slow burning powder, You could use a little faster burning powder or bump up the load a little.
If it were me and I liked what I had then I might try a little heavier crimp ( don't go nuts with it )
just crimp a little bit more. That should increase the pressure in the case a little, and may be just enough to help you out.  Other than that --as it was said don't worry about it, happens often with light loads and slow powder.

Sam

[Dinny]

Thanks for the info everyone. Although these are not max loads, they aren't minimum either. I believe they are around 1600fps. I have room to adjust the powder a little higher and will see if the accuracy holds up. If not, then I will try the heavier crimp, etc.

Thanks, Dinny

[hillbill]

im getting that same thing with 7 grs of reddot and a 230 grn bullet in my blackhawk. not a max load but close. accurate and some felt recoil.was curious about it myself.

[nodlenor]

I've experienced the same thing in rifle reloads with some powders. I didn't have a clue as to what was going on. I was leaning toward blaming the powder but maybe I'm not putting enough in them. They aren't max loads so I'll try increasing the load a little.

[mauser98us]

Pressure is always described as a bad thing. Pressure is what makes the projectile go down range. You are not developing enough pressure. Move up your loads somewhat. Problem should go away. Always heed your load book maximums.

[Siskiyou]

I recently ran into the soot issue with .243 Winchester loads.  I doubt that low pressure is the problem because they are clocking close to 3000 fps. 

I just visited my bench to look at the 243 Winchester cases and some 270 Winchester cases I loaded in the past but fired this summer.  So both rounds are high pressure loads.

I am thinking back on my loading methods and the only difference I can come up with at this time was the use of Imperial Resizing wax when resizing the current run of 243 Winchester

I also fired some 80-grain loads in the 243 that I loaded a few years ago and they did not have a soot issue. The only difference I can come up with is the case lube.   I am grasping when I mention the case lube because I wipe the case off after seizing and drop it in to the tumbler.  The case gets about an hour of tumbling before it is back in the loading block.

I am looking forward to others thoughts on the subject

[torpedoman]

oversize chamber also comes to mind especially in a handi

[Dinny]

oversize chamber also comes to mind especially in a handi

My sooting problem is not a regular occurrence. Just with this load and no others from the same rifle.

Thanks, Dinny

[Siskiyou]

I believe I am in the same boat, two commerical loads, and the older re-load did not soot.  But a run of fifty did.  Same RCBS dies were used.  

Dinny is the soot on your cases a hard soot or a soft soot.  I would discribed the soot on my cases as hard and does not clean easly.

[McDerry]

Your loads are not reaching an effective pressure level to fully seal the case to the chamber walls.


Also pressure and speed are not hand in hand. You can load a .44 mag case to 1400 fps with a load of 4227 or only 1000 fps with Red Dot, both producing the same chamber pressure.

[Dinny]

Your loads are not reaching an effective pressure level to fully seal the case to the chamber walls.
Also pressure and speed are not hand in hand. You can load a .44 mag case to 1400 fps with a load of 4227 or only 1000 fps with Red Dot, both producing the same chamber pressure.

That makes good sense. Lil Gun is a low pressure powder. Maybe I'll find better luck with something like H110.

Thanks, Dinny

[McDerry]

Lil Gun is a good powder, you just have to work it up towards the max charge.  Remember seating depth can drastically affect chamber pressures.  With a long case overall length you'll be experiancing sligthly lower pressures.  Light crimp will do the same. 

[Dinny]

I'm still a few grains below max and the sooting went away. I only have 4 more of those bullets left. I will load them closer to the max and shoot them soon.

Thanks, Dinny

[Smokin Joe]

It isn't just the pressure that's the problem; it is also the speed at which the cartridge gets to that pressure. A case that is work hardened will also allow low pressure blow-by. Try a slightly faster powder.........or just don't let the soot bother you.

[mechanic]

I had exactly the same problem in my Handi 357 max. using H110.  The load was so accurate, more so than even slightly hotter loads, I decided to leave it alone.

I noticed this was only on new brass.  When I reloaded the next time, I neck sized and with the same loading the soot was gone......

Ben

[Modoc]

Another thing is which manufacturer of brass are you using?  In my black powder cowboy action loads, I noticed that that Starline brass is thicker and would not "spring" as well as the thinner Winchester.

[Dinny]

Another thing is which manufacturer of brass are you using?  In my black powder cowboy action loads, I noticed that that Starline brass is thicker and would not "spring" as well as the thinner Winchester.

RP

Thanks, Dinny