Author Topic: 45 colt carbine (Read 1530 times)

moto357 · « **on:** October 24, 2010, 07:19:27 PM »

new toy.. from what i read it can be loaded to the same loads listed for t/c, ruger, etc. that seems to make it a bit more fun, being my interest is for hunting. my question to you guys is this, I like big bullets, but dont see load info for anything with any size to it. I think less than 400gr is as big as I've seen, but I want bigger. the bullet specifically I want to shoot weighs around 435gr.

any help of direction woul be appreciated, thanks

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 24, 2010, 07:28:09 PM »

Moto357,

I have never seen any reloading data for a .452 that big. That is a 45-70 bullet. I doubt you would have the case capacity to push a bullet like that in a 45 Colt. May I recommend that you look at a .452 300 grain FN bullet with a gas check. That is the type of bullet they use in 454 Casull loads for critters up to elk and moose. The bullet can be launched to probably 1600 fps with the right powder and a gas check.

ST762

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** October 24, 2010, 08:45:21 PM »

Kurt shoots a 360gr bullet in his Colt carbine, Beartooth makes 405gr .452" and .453" bullets.

Tim

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm?category=22&id=

http://www.loadswap.com/display.php?action=view_load&table=Handgun_Data&bullet_weight=405&cartridge_id=66

moto357 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2010, 03:08:27 AM »

im not trying to find a big bullet, i have plenty to choose from. i would like to shoot the one particularly and its just a tad larger than any listed data i can find. the bullet also has plenty of small grease grooves which can be crimped into, so the bullet doesn't have to be shoved down inside the case, this may help in terms of pressure. my initial thought is using a slower powder like 4227 or 5744 somewhere in the 14-18gr range and seating the bullet so its not a compressed load? let me know if you think im way off

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2010, 05:42:13 AM »

That's because it's a probably a 45-70 bullet, some CR45 carbines have oversize chambers, make a dummy round by seating a bullet in a case and see if you can chamber it, maybe it will work.

Tim

tacklebury · « **Reply #5 on:** October 25, 2010, 11:58:38 AM »

I'd suggest possibly trying Reloader7 slightly reduced from the loads I'm currently using in .45 Long Colt. For my BC I'm loading up 300 gr. XTP Magnums with 23 gr. Reloader7 and getting close to 2k FPS. Much less sharp recoil than equivalent loads of H110 and good accuracy. With the stock sights I'm around 2" at 100 yards. I also shot some 250 gr. XTP's with 25 gr. and had good performance. I'd think that with the amount of additional capacity taken up you could drop back to about 15 gr. to start and see what velocities you get. That's probably more than you need to drop, but to be on the safe side.

Reloader7 isn't very touchy about low capacity and I load a range from 34.3 to 52 in my .45-70. It should get you a starting point if you wish to try anyway.

moto357 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2010, 01:37:17 PM »

thought about reloader 7 as well, but feared with the lack of capacity with bullet in there it might not be enough to move things very fast. i like that rel 7 is double based and easy to ignite as opposed to 4227 which leaves unburt powder in my barrel even with warmer loads of lighter bullets. well just have to play and see what works.. will definitly be building loads up with a chrony to keep an eye on things

petemi · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2010, 02:30:36 PM »

Quote from: moto357 on October 25, 2010, 01:37:17 PM

R like that rel 7 is double based and easy to ignite as opposed to 4227 which leaves unburt powder in my barrel even with warmer loads of lighter bullets.

I own 4227 but have not loaded it as yet. I have read here, that the residue is not unburned powder, but a filler. I don't need to mess with that, I'll just sell the jug.

tacklebury, I'm a novice at this, but I do know H110 is faster burning and will yield more felt recoil than a slower burning rifle powder. I really wish someone would publish a complete manual on reloading for pistol caliber carbines, and straight walls in general. 99% of the data you find is for a handgun. The rifle data you can scrape together is uisually limited to trapdoors. I'd name the book "KABOOM".

Pete

nova71 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2010, 02:41:31 PM »

hey Pete, if you write the book I'll buy a copy

I'd love to have a book with handgun shell info for a rifle

petemi · « **Reply #9 on:** October 25, 2010, 02:44:02 PM »

Tim, ya know what, I just re-read what I wrote, and YOU could and should be the author of "KABOOM"..Name it what ya want........ It is still something you can do well. There is so little pistol caliber carbine information available anywhere, and you have either already rounded it up or know where to get it. Do it my friend, I'll buy a dozen copies. It's really the pits when you look up a load and all it can tell you is Bullseye instead of RL7.

Pete

tacklebury · « **Reply #10 on:** October 25, 2010, 03:00:38 PM »

I agree with you 100% Pete. Because I really wanted to find a powder that would work well with .45 Colt and .45-70 I did a ton of research. Reloader7 is almost the perfect match in my opinion to the .45-70 and After finding Paco Kelley's article on .45 colt in leverguns, I decided it'd be worth playing with. I'm sure you may have seen the link before, but I have had great luck with my loads thus far. If you want to shoot leads, however, you should really do gas checks on them.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

petemi · « **Reply #11 on:** October 25, 2010, 03:04:49 PM »

Quote from: nova71 on October 25, 2010, 02:41:31 PM

hey Pete, if you write the book I'll buy a copy

I'd love to have a book with handgun shell info for a rifle

I think we all would. I know Tim can do it.....if he wants to? He's my mentor and Mother-in-law, tooth fairy, Easter Bunnie and Santa rolled into one.....the things he can do are awsome......no.... not only awsome, but ....spectacular. I, personally revere the man as a genious. For anyone looking at this forum, the guy we're butchering is quickdtoo, moderator here.....heed what he speaks.

Pete

nova71 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 25, 2010, 03:16:18 PM »

aww.. you're gonna make him blush

but you are right, he does deserve the praise..

wookie76 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 25, 2010, 03:20:09 PM »

Quote from: moto357 on October 24, 2010, 07:19:27 PM

...I like big bullets...

Will these work?
http://www.lsstuff.com/ranger-rick/

moto357 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 25, 2010, 05:32:12 PM »

that feller does have some big bullets, glad you showed me that link wookie as i remember seeing his sight a while back but not since. my biggest 45 bullets are 535gr also, and 600 for the 50.

petemi, haven't ever read anything about fillers in 4227. my only previous experience was in a custom smokeless muzzleloader. using it in the ML i remember thinking to myself this is one of the cleanest burning powders i've seen..

well guys with my bullet out a bit in the case, its well into the lands when pushed into the chamber. i wouldn't mind so much for paper punching, but not the best for hunting as i'd need a rod to knock the thing back out if i didn't pull the trigger. i'll play a little more tunight and probably with rel 7 and see how things fit. i'll keep ya'll posted

i would have loaded some with rel 7 sooner had i known that kind of speed was possible tacklebury

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 26, 2010, 11:10:24 AM »

Pete,

I haven't had any issues with IMR-4227, it burns nice and clean for me. I'll be using it for deer hunting this year with a 300 grain Sierra JSP.

tacklebury · « **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2010, 04:10:36 PM »

Yah it brings a whole new game with a 250 grain big bore doing 2k+ fps.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 27, 2010, 06:19:41 PM »

Ive used a good bunch of IMR 4227 in reduced loads for cast bullets in a number of rifle calibers.
In my experience you can try to go too slow, which results in more residue (it is not 'unburned powder', just look at it under a magnifier and you will see that, but it is dirty), or you can use too light a bullet which probably reduces the back pressure needed for it to work best.
Even so, at about 18.0gr. in my 30-40Krag, 30-06, and 38-55 it works great and the velocities are not over 1450fps. I can load heavier and they would still work to the point of leading, but the burn would just keep getting better. Over 1450 I would switch to jacketed anyway, but I like cast bullets. It may not work as well in smaller calibers, ie, the .25s and .224s because the heavy bullets for those may not be heavy enough, though Im not sure. I use H335 in my 25-35.
I think I recall info about 4227 in 45Colt, never tried it as I like Unique and have recently been working with Trail Boss with satisfaction.

moto357 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 28, 2010, 10:05:13 AM »

checked the diameter of the nose on the 520gr bullets i have and they measured right at .439, and after slugging my bore it measured .440, so i knew they would chamber. not going

into detail on the whole outting today, but got a chance to go and play a bit this windy afternoon.

bullets are pure lead, used my own lube, a .030 veg wad and 18gr Rel 7. only shot at 50yds and accuracy was as good or better than expected. this load avg'd at 925fps, so not too shabby, plenty to hunt with for sure. recoil was mild. the big suprise was the brass didn't have enough pressure to seal in the chamber, so on top of what looks like unburnt powder residue in the barrel, there is a black sticky mess i had to clean from inside the chamber and also in the reciever. guess i need to play to get something to seal but without loosing accuracy! gunna try another outting tomorrow with a couple other attempts at this big boys!

p.s. - had a NYS forest ranger stop and say hello. had a chat about some things, but what really suprised me is he thought i was in possession of an illegal firearm. turns out the length of the barrel needs to be 14+", and thats measured AFTER the chamber! its a 20 i told him, but he measured it anyway. maybe the gun itself looks "meaner" with the varmit stock/forearm?

tacklebury · « **Reply #19 on:** October 28, 2010, 12:33:20 PM »

Congrats and hope you have good luck in the development.

The lowest I've loaded mine with RL7 was 23 gr. with a 300 gr. XTP Magnum and still got good accuracy and seal. Your results might vary though. I'm not sure what level of recoil you're willing to absorb also.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 29, 2010, 05:19:52 AM »

Did he show you the regulation (or look it up online from your DNR web-site)?
In Wisconsin they measure muzzle to firing pin, which makes it a lot easier and seems smarter to me.
I believe the Federal BATF regs are what really governs this anyway.

Spanky · « **Reply #21 on:** October 29, 2010, 06:09:00 AM »

The ranger doesn't know what he's talking about. He needs to study up on firearms rules and regulations.

Spanky

moto357 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 29, 2010, 09:48:08 AM »

he didn't look anything up or show me anything, although he sounded pretty sure of himself and what he was talking about. maybe so, but either way there's a big difference between 14 and 20"

tacklebury, did you ever chrony your loads with RL7? can't imagine that 23gr load over the xtp would be much faster than 14 or 1450? thanks

tacklebury · « **Reply #23 on:** October 30, 2010, 03:47:22 PM »

I am hoping to chrony them, but I haven't got one of my own. Been trying to synchronize with a buddy who reloads as he has one. The 250 gr. per Paco Kelly's findings in the article listed above show a 250gr. over 25 gr. RL7 with a velocity about 1800 to a max load of 2kfps. The 300 gr. I'm using is less than that I'm sure, but it will easily best any revolver's speed using .45 colt. Out of the 20" barrel, I'd estimate at about 1600 and will try to post back if I get it over to the chrony. Hoping to test some at his range next week if the weather agrees.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #24 on:** October 30, 2010, 05:44:11 PM »

I just think your a little off base here and trying to get 45/70 preformance from the 45Colt. Maybe it can be done but I ended up looking for a short range 60 yards heavy "brush buster" load for mine and am what I feel is darn close to what I would consider max with no damage to me or the gun and just a tad of pressure sign. Thats with as Tim said a hard cast 360gr that moves between 1500 and 1525 fps. I got my dead at 60yrds but also got what I consider a bonus and that is it still shoots 2" or less at 100yrds. Keep us posted and be safe I like big bullets also. Kurt

moto357 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 31, 2010, 07:26:10 AM »

definitely not trying to get 45/70 performance out of the colt. just see no sense in limiting myself to pistol bullets or pistol loads out of a rifle. not trying to push any envelopes, just to see what this particular gun is safely capable of, and if shooting a 520gr pure lead bullet is what i can do accurately, i'll be hunting with it

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #26 on:** November 01, 2010, 02:14:14 PM »

I here ya on that. Let me know what ya come up with on them heavy bullets even if you end up in the 1200-1300 fps range. Kurt