WMDS.

[wreckhog]

He heard from a friend. Seriously?

Well, I want to make it clear, very clear to everybody in the world that we had the weapon of mass destruction in Iraq, and the regime used them against our Iraqi people...I know it because I have got the captains of the Iraqi airway that were my friends, and they told me these weapons of mass destruction had been moved to Syria. Iraq had some projects for nuclear weapons but it was destroyed in 1981. (When asked if there was any chance there were nuclear weapons or on their way to nuclear weapons when USA invaded, he said): Not in Iraq. [2]

His claims, though, tend to contradict the findings of the Duelfer Report, which "judged that it was unlikely that an official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place," though analysts were unable to rule out the possibility.

Sada made a guest appearance on The Daily Show on March 21, 2006 to promote Saddam's Secrets.
[edit]
Footnotes
^ Sada is often described as a General which is the generic equivalent of Air Marshal and is more commonly understood in the United States.

[teamnelson]

TNel...I appreciate your views on this situation. You do know this is a very Kissingerian and neoconic approach to things...which is anti-arabbist for the most part. It is also based on the catalyst of a very questionable 911 event...more a coup d'tat.  It also makes the USA a vassal state of Internationalist and their foreign entanglements. If the USA is a failing state it is questionable how much longer we can keep up this format for these elites and despots. As ye sow....

..TM7
.

TM7, 3 decades around the agencies and I've concluded: we know far less than some people think, and at the same time far more. The resources necessary to read the tag on your Birkenstocks from space are far greater than we have and we frankly don't care. But some things we care a lot about. And some things which are known are in fact best left secret. So that means many are left to conclude in ignorance that there are great forces at work behind closed doors, and there are some probably, but they are far less powerful than some think, and at the same time far more than others think. If knowledge is power, then super knowledge is super power ... until they publish your secret, and we realize it wasn't as cool as we imagined.

..
To say Bush lied or Bush told the truth is too simple; not all of the truth is ever told, and our current president is as artful as any former president. We would not elect an honest man, he wouldn't seem presidential, so let's have the integrity to admit we like the security of mind that comes from ignorance.

Personally, it seems prudent to treat Syria as though they have the material rather than to villify someone only to have our city turned to ash.

[ironglow]

TNel...I appreciate your views on this situation. You do know this is a very Kissingerian and neoconic approach to things...which is anti-arabbist for the most part. It is also based on the catalyst of a very questionable 911 event...more a coup d'tat.  It also makes the USA a vassal state of Internationalist and their foreign entanglements. If the USA is a failing state it is questionable how much longer we can keep up this format for these elites and despots. As ye sow....

..TM7
.

TM7, 3 decades around the agencies and I've concluded: we know far less than some people think, and at the same time far more. The resources necessary to read the tag on your Birkenstocks from space are far greater than we have and we frankly don't care. But some things we care a lot about. And some things which are known are in fact best left secret. So that means many are left to conclude in ignorance that there are great forces at work behind closed doors, and there are some probably, but they are far less powerful than some think, and at the same time far more than others think. If knowledge is power, then super knowledge is super power ... until they publish your secret, and we realize it wasn't as cool as we imagined.

..
To say Bush lied or Bush told the truth is too simple; not all of the truth is ever told, and our current president is as artful as any former president. We would not elect an honest man, he wouldn't seem presidential, so let's have the integrity to admit we like the security of mind that comes from ignorance.

Personally, it seems prudent to treat Syria as though they have the material rather than to villify someone only to have our city turned to ash.

  TeamNelson;

      Much wisdom in what you just  said ... Plus obvious  knowledge from whence you speak..

[teamnelson]

TNel....what I'm talking about is hiding in plain sight, flaunted, and not much a secret really. As part of that industry it might be hard to view as a whole from inside. The Ancient Conspiracy. Secrecy is simply the end of Democracy foisted by psychopaths and despots...plain and simple. BTW, I see ole Sad'dam is now growing into some kind of larger than life folk hero in many quarters...TM7

TM7, I prefer the tension between secrecy and democracy over either one being the rule. Democracy with no secrecy will only work when all men are good ... and we ain't there yet.

But back to secrecy and WMDS. Wikileaks has revealed that we discovered WMDs in Iraq ... why didn't Bush have a press conference and repudiate all the claims that he lied? What might have been his motivation? For the sake of argument, give me the altruistic to the evil.

I have no need to remind you how warmly we treat people here in the US of A when they tell the truth.

[powderman]

PMan...notice Gen Sada was a Christian, allegedly, in Saddam's hierarchy...got that.?

..TM7
.

tm. Not sure who he is, but being a Christian and saying you are one are 2 different things. I offer osama obama as proof. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

PM;
  He is a Chaldean Christian..not exactly as you and I see the term. They are getting ready to hang another Chaldean Christian in Iraq, even now..a fellow named Aziz.
   Nevertheless, Georges Sada had the inside track being Saddam's Air Vice Marshall...certainly he had more information than TM7, junior or Wreckhog, and he said Saddam had WMD.
  
    "Come, let us reason together"...

  1) Saddan Hussein was an especially brutal dictator.

 2) Hussein wanted to EXPAND his empire.

 3) Hussein had already tried to take over Iran.

 4) Hussein  did take over his neighbor, Kuwait.

 5) S. Hussein resisted the inspectors who he agreed to allow free access.

 6)  Hussein did not want to give up his WMD..he had plans to use them.

 7) He demonstrated his willingness to employ WMD..on his own subjects,,the Kurds.

  For any clear-thinking person, Sada's book would not have been needed..Hussein's own actions convicted him.


   BTW: I'm starting to weary of that ugly name....Hussein...it's just plain bad news for free Americans. 

[wreckhog]

  Nevertheless, Georges Sada had the inside track being Saddam's Air Vice Marshall...certainly he had more information than TM7, junior or Wreckhog, OR IRONGLOW and he said Saddam had WMD.

No, he said that his friend told him that.

[teamnelson]

I was on his intel staff, Iraqi area expert, at CentCom. So would you say that credibility is based on the source of ones info or on their public acceptance. I know alot of folks who know a whole lot more about Iraq than Zinni. And I don't disagree with him much.

[ironglow]

  Nevertheless, Georges Sada had the inside track being Saddam's Air Vice Marshall...certainly he had more information than TM7, junior or Wreckhog, OR IRONGLOW and he said Saddam had WMD.

No, he said that his friend told him that.

   WQrteckhopg;
       I read the book; it wasn't entirely based upon what some friend told him at a barbeque ! Any way you look at it Geroges Sada would have a lot more credible info than you would have.
  The hitherto classified documents posted by Wikileaks is likely to contain more intel than you can muster..and it points to the existence of WMD in Hussein's Iraq..between the gulf wars.

[powderman]

tm. HEH. You really crack me up every time you say, WE AMERICANS, then go on to trash America and Israel while supporting your godless friends. You are at times a real riot. You are my daily reminder that satan is alive and well, and my comedy relief all in one. Thanks. POWDERMAN. 

[teamnelson]

In the final analysis,,, credibility is based on truth. Are there any Iracqis that know more about Iracq then us..?
...
So I told you my theory on why WMD talk evaporated,,,de nada. Now it is your time to tell us about the WMD story,,,as much as you can given the classified rules of engaging the American public.....what the heck happen to the WMD, how did they get away, and why are good decent moslem hating Americans not shown the WMD collection...??

To the first question, yes. In fact, it was Iraqis that led us to a site that was later filled in with concrete while we're in MOPP4. I do not know specifically why the lamestream media has not been brought in to cover the discovery of WMDs, but I have some theories. One is that it would've affected ticket sales for Green Zone. Another is that alot of very powerful people would be embarassed, as they have profited alot chanting Bush lied. My guess is the real answer is that it serves best the various individual and collective purposes of a lot of folks. Why did Obama say the war was over when its not? Whatever the answer is to that one is probably related to the answer of the other one.

To the second, when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. If you can accept that it is possible that there were WMDs, then the truth is within your grasp. Bush hatred has blinded quite a number to truths that are right in front of them ... not saying that of you TM7, but you know the type. Lots of them in the media.

[nw_hunter]

tm. HEH. You really crack me up every time you say, WE AMERICANS, then go on to trash America and Israel while supporting your godless friends. You are at times a real riot. You are my daily reminder that satan is alive and well, and my comedy relief all in one. Thanks. POWDERMAN. 

What a pathetic comment to make!You interrupt intelligent dialog between two men who take the time to investigate the topics they converse on,  even though they may differ in some of their beliefs and views, and make anti-Christian comments to one of them (TM7), and question his patriotism!

You couldn't possibly carry on an intelligent conversation with either, so these crude, hateful comments are all you can muster. Do yourself a favor and just read their comments and learn.

[powderman]

nw-hunter. have you EVER read a post by tm where he says anything good about Christians or America??? I haven't. He knows saddam had wmds and that they still exist. It's amusing at times seeing him twist things around to suit his pro muslim agenda. POWDERMAN.

[powderman]

NW-HUNTER. HEH, I rest my case, tm just proved it. It's always the Jews fault, those crafty devils, putting a map of their own country on a coin. There goes the neighborhood. POWDERMAN. 

[teamnelson]

Saddam had pursued all aspects of CBRN to varying degrees of success. I think it's interesting that we all accept that they did exist in the 80s and early 90s because we sent inspectors in the mid 90s. But they all turned to fairy dust by 2003? Back to your DU and DIME ... so if we destroyed artillery pieces that can fire DU tipped shells, was that a WMD in your book? What about rockets? Why have such a tight definition for Bush, but such a loose one for criminal prosecution of a self-proclaimed terrorist? Exactly how many people would die from a tanker trucks volume of nerve gas? Is that a conventional weapon then? But fertilizer and gasoline in an SUV in NYC is a WMD?

As for secrecy, human beings as a collective lack the maturity to handle all the information that exists. In the same reason I wouldn't expose my children to porn, I don't think it wise to expose most Americans to truths that would drastically undermine their sense of security. Our nation/economy is driven by how we feel, not facts. Our social constraints are held together by mutual good will, not data. Too much data pushed through already existing bias and our collective will crumble ... it happens every single time. Do people exploit it, yes.

[ironglow]

  Nevertheless, Georges Sada had the inside track being Saddam's Air Vice Marshall...certainly he had more information than TM7, junior or Wreckhog, OR IRONGLOW and he said Saddam had WMD.

No, he said that his friend told him that.

   Wreckhog;
      You are becoming more and more like the leftist/progressives you defend.
   Look at my post # 43...somehow you cannot even quote it honestly. You instead (in post #44) inserted my name in capital letters...looks like you went to the same ethics and honesty courses as B. Hussein Obama attended.

[powderman]

TEAMNELSON. Good post Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[nw_hunter]

TM7 Said
Gatekeeping to keep the majority of Americans in the dark like mushrooms, only drives home the point that the 'elite' have taken all of us down a shadowy dark private road ill advised and wrought with evil from inception...lit by The Luciferians no doubt.





General Butler worked in secrecy for the US Government for years.
He is one of the few who actually has a conscience and finally came clean.

We can talk about WMD's till we are blue in the face, or any other reason to launch a war against another country, and it will matter not. The powers that be, will have their wars, and we the Sheeple will fight them.

After all! They know what's best for us.

-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.

    War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

   
    I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

    It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

    I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

   
    During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

[teamnelson]

Gatekeeping to keep the majority of Americans in the dark like mushrooms, only drives home the point that the 'elite' have taken all of us down a shadowy dark private road ill advised and wrought with evil from inception...lit by The Luciferians no doubt.

If you assume that all those who keep secrets have evil intent, then your conclusions make sense. Not all who keep secrets are evil; God keeps a few doesn't He, even from His Son. (We could chase that rabbit for days elsewhere.)

And a lot (probably most) of what you are assuming are being "kept" are in fact in the open, just rejected because they do not conform to a popular view of the way things "ought" to be. You of all people understand how that works; all I am asking is for you to be consistent in the application of your quest for truth. Your skepticism is healthy, now apply it to all, apply it to me, apply it to those who say there were no WMDs as ardently and as completely as you apply it to those who say there were. Then you can claim to be interested in the truth, and not just a version. You come across as a man who has already made his conclusions, and is on a quest for validation.

I can only speak of what I know; you can accept or reject what I share, that's your call, but I cannot reject what I know firsthand, and I am constrained from sharing all I know.

Appreciate the civil discourse!
Mahalo, Chaps

[powderman]

TEAMNELSON. You clearly know of what you speak. Thank you. POWDERMAN. 

[powderman]

lamestream media is pretty zio friendly and islamo unfriendly




HEH. Another good one tm, you are a riot at times. Nothing but a lie as always. The media, in my country The United States, is so pro godless ones and anti Israel that it is sickening. Once again, you started my day with a good laugh. Write this one down for the BBQ. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

TeamNelson;
  Your posts numbers 52, 58 & 63 all make the logical case..
  Dictators are a different breed of animal from the rest of us and never seem to be willing to hand over a powerful weapon willingly.
  Some here claim that Saddam never had WMDS...doubt you will convince the Kurds of that ! By simple definition weapons of mass destruction includes most all forms of CBRN weapons.
  AS TN said, it doesn't take a truckload of nreve gas to kill a lot of people and a small vial of sarin can kill a whole subway full of people.
And how many could die from a few ounces of a severe biological agent efficiently applied to NY City, Los Angeles or Chicago ?
 
  Some seem to think the general public should know ALL the classified material our intel agencies are aware of or have collected..that our whole defrense department, including intel agencies.. should be an "open book".  To do such a thing would be suicidal for any nation!
  To lay bare our capabilities and intelligence would open us to attack would be totally stupid. Our potential enemies should have a healthy respect for what the DON'T know about us..keep them wondering.
  As Pres Reagan said..  "in modern history, No nation was ever attacked because they were too strong"

[teamnelson]

The missing WMD story is likely going to be the framework of the next big 'attack' some where...likely rivaling 911.

If that's the case, I'd pay attention to who is saying what when it happens ... went to a FEMA conference right after Katrina, and you'd a thought the focus would've been lessons learned. Nope. It was on emergency response to a CBRN event on US soil. There are really only a few stockpiles of CBRN material "unknown" ... Iraq still shows up on the list for some reason.

[wreckhog]

TeamNelson;
  Your posts numbers 52, 58 & 63 all make the logical case..
  Dictators are a different breed of animal from the rest of us and never seem to be willing to hand over a powerful weapon willingly.
  Some here claim that Saddam never had WMDS...doubt you will convince the Kurds of that ! By simple definition weapons of mass destruction includes most all forms of CBRN weapons.
  AS TN said, it doesn't take a truckload of nreve gas to kill a lot of people and a small vial of sarin can kill a whole subway full of people.
And how many could die from a few ounces of a severe biological agent efficiently applied to NY City, Los Angeles or Chicago ?
 
  Some seem to think the general public should know ALL the classified material our intel agencies are aware of or have collected..that our whole defrense department, including intel agencies.. should be an "open book".  To do such a thing would be suicidal for any nation!
  To lay bare our capabilities and intelligence would open us to attack would be totally stupid. Our potential enemies should have a healthy respect for what the DON'T know about us..keep them wondering.
  As Pres Reagan said..  "in modern history, No nation was ever attacked because they were too strong"

What is a WMD? After OKC, a pickup filled with fertilizer.

[ironglow]

  TM;
      I am of the 'rightist' persuasion..especially so when the choice is narrowed to either right or left...in which case, I would rather be RIGHT. Then of course we, must realize that to the radical left, ...anyone not of their template, is an "extremist"..
 
     I am not 'religious'..that is a term for the uninformed..
   And yes, the world should stand aside and let the Israelis kick the 'squatters' out of their promised land..they have been kind to those moochers far too long. 

[no guns here]

I am not 'religious'..that is a term for the uninformed..
   And yes, the world should stand aside and let the Israelis kick the 'squatters' out of their promised land..they have been kind to those moochers far too long....I must be mistaken this

Not sure I remember this quote from the Sermon on the Mount...


NGH

[powderman]

And yes, the world should stand aside and let the Israelis kick the 'squatters' out of their promised land..they have been kind to those moochers far too long.   





AAAAAMMMMMMEEEEEENNNN. POWDERMAN. 

[teamnelson]

So back to the subject of WMDs ...

[ironglow]

I am not 'religious'..that is a term for the uninformed..
   And yes, the world should stand aside and let the Israelis kick the 'squatters' out of their promised land..they have been kind to those moochers far too long....I must be mistaken this

Not sure I remember this quote from the Sermon on the Mount...


NGH

    That was not in the sermon on the mount; it did not have to be. God preached it to Abraham in Gen 12...if there was any change, it would have likely been mentioned in the sermon on the mount. So obviously God's promise to Abraham is still in effect.

   Back To WMDs;
      Some try to include localized explosions such as the Murrah building in Okla City as WMD..that is just an effort at 'deflection'.
   While brutal and horrifying, the killings at Ruby Ridge, Waco and Oklahoma City for example, were not  a result of WMDs...but rather, simple "domestic terrorism".

[teamnelson]

For the general purposes of national defense, US Code defines a weapon of mass destruction as:

any weapon or device that is intended, or has the capability, to cause death or serious bodily injury to a significant number of people through the release, dissemination, or impact of: toxic or poisonous chemicals or their precursors, a disease organism, radiation or radioactivity

For the purposes of the prevention of weapons proliferation, US Code defines weapons of mass destruction as

chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, and chemical, biological, and nuclear materials used in the manufacture of such weapons.

For the purposes of US Criminal law concerning terrorism, weapons of mass destruction are defined as:

-any destructive device defined as any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses
- any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors
- any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector
- any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life

The Federal Bureau of Investigation's definition is similar to that presented above from the terrorism statute:

any explosive or incendiary device, as defined in Title 18 USC, Section 921: bomb, grenade, rocket, missile, mine, or other device with a charge of more than four ounces
any weapon designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals or their precursors
any weapon involving a disease organism
any weapon designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life
Indictments and convictions for possession and use of WMD such as truck bombs, pipe bombs, shoe bombs, cactus needles coated with botulin toxin, etc. have been obtained under 18 USC 2332a.