S&W model 625 load question

[Gene R]

I just picked up a 625 from someone who was selling his (deceist) fathers estate. Great deal I think, $400 bucks. Shows some holster wear but tight as a tick, cleaned it up and except for the writting on the sides partialy worn off it looks like new.

Question is, will it handel a .452 - 255 hard cast gc over 8gr of tight group? I reload for the black hawk, but I know this isn't a BH. But this load is way below max Ruger loads and way above standard cowboy loads. I do not want a HOT ROD just hoping to get a 255 gr at arount 950 fps and was woundering about if the gun will handle this load as a do all load with out worry. I do not want to beat the gun up unneccessarily, but I will be carrying it while hunting, walking, ect and may take a deer if within 40 yards or so. But mainly general purpose woods carry and shooter. No bears here....just a few wild hogs, coyotes, snakes and 2 legged verman.

Thanks

[ole 5 hole group]

I don't use titegroup - I prefer HS-6 for reduced loads in several different calibers.  Titegroup is a fast & hot powder and you'll probably notice your barrel will get hot faster.  That said, Hodgdon's max load for that bullet in non-Rugers is 6.2 grains of titegroup with a shown velocity of 881fps.  Be careful not to double charge.  

[Gene R]

8gr of titegroup shows 21,000 cup and 945 fps. This is bottom end Ruger loads for the 45LC according to the reloading manual for the 45 lc.

Top end non ruger loads are only at 12,500 cup and 797 fps at @ 6.3 gr of titegroup.

Surely the S&W can handle more than old colt army's??? Or am I trying to make chicken soup out of chicken sh_ _ ?

[SHOOTALL]

Just asking , isn't this a 45 ACP revolver ? with a lot less case capacity than a 45 COLT ? IF so wouldn't the less room in the case drive up pressure if 45 COLT data was used ? Also in a acp case where would the crimp ring be ? is there enough room in the case and have correct OAL ?

[Gene R]

Not acp.

It is a S&W 625-7 45LC Mountain Gun.

[SHOOTALL]

OK , nice gun !

[gray-wolf]

You may push the pressure envelope and get lucky ?  I wouldn't
Why take the chance, I think I would go with standard 45 colt pressure loads,
and stay way away from ruger BLK HK. loads.  With the standard 45 colt loads the Min and Max loads should be OK.  I am not going to get my pressure/CUP above the max load pressure for a standard 45 colt loading. I am sure if you called S&W they would tell you it's not a BLK HK. So stay with the standard.
  I think 8 grains of tite group is way--way to hot for that gun.
Check out some of the loads with Alliant powder.   Keep the pressure below 14,500 better yet about 14,000

[MePlat]

The advice I gave on the other forum you posted on is still good advice.  Call John Linebaugh and talk to him.  His article he had that I gave the link to you should tell you what a Smith will stand.  I've used 7.5 of Bullseye which is very similar to Titegroup.  Generally there are maybe  two or three tenths difference between the loads
You are going to find people that are scared to death to go over 14000 psi in a Smith and those that will load loads that will scare the devil off his roost.
Speer list 8 gr Bullseye with a 260 jacketed as the start load on their Ruger section and Titegroup will be similar.
I wouldn't be afraid at all to run my Mountain Gun with 8 gr of titegroup with a 270 gr SAA bullet.  If that load hurt it I don't need it.
Handloader ran an article by Brian Pearce where 7.5 with a RCBS 270 SAA was tested at 14000 psi level at 986 from a 5.5 inch Ruger test gun.
Take that info as you will but .5 gr increase isn't going to detonate your gun.
285 RCBS 45-270-SAA cast Hodgdon Titegroup 7.5 986 14000 psi

[MePlat]

On the Speer data that should have been 8.5 gr of Bullseye as the starting load in the Ruger section for the 260 gr jacketed.
This is making 8 gr of Titegroup for a 255 gr SWC look even better.

[SHOOTALL]

I shot Ruger loads in a mod 29 custom DX and ruined the gun , be very careful as it only took 6 rounds.

[MePlat]

SHOOTALL:
I find that very interesting. Could you go into more detail about the loads?  Not the actual load but where you got the Ruger 44 loads and the M29 loads.  
Describe them more in detail as I know that some have loaded Rugers hotter but the loading data I have seen for years now are worked to SAAMI specs on pressure.  36000 psi or 40000cup depending on the type pressure measuring device used.
Even JD Jones load of a 320 JDJ and 21.5 or W296 would more than likely shake one up after awhile,  but,  6 rounds won't do it.
If it did something else must have been wrong along with what the load did.

[SHOOTALL]

My reloading books are at home and I am at work but it was in the Hornady reloading man. I think . It is in the back of the section if memory is correct. There is a statement to the effect that the loads are for Ruger and Freedoms arms or Ruger and Thompson Center. Out of a Ruger Super Black Hawk 10.5 inch bbl the loads were between 1600-1700 fps. A friend checked them . I can't remember if the ones checked were max or not. The same section has loads for the 45 Colt Black Hawk that may be only one grain less. I found in a SS gun they work great but a blue gun with alum. grip frame the screws holding the Ruger togather take a beating and get lose and need replacing. I find a Redhawk in 45 Colt is a powerful revolver and easy to control with 300 gr HTP's maxed out on the Ruger only Data. I use H-110 mostly Most loads max out around 19 grains for  the Ruger. Ruger only loads go over 22 grs if memory is working . Maybe higher.
For hunting I settled on a Redhawk in 45 Colt with Ruger only load data for the XTP. It is less gun to carry than a 454 RH . It can do what a 44 mag RH can do with less pressure . Shoots a larger bullet than the 44. Whats not to like ?
 I messed up the M-29 custom DX because I shot rounds in it the gun was never ment to see. It was a very nice gun before that. I got into IMHSA shooting and the crowd i shot with were always looking for hotter rounds . I enjoyed that myself and with the Redhawk have exceeded data and still had good results ( I do not advise anyone to do this) . I shot the max loads for the 45 Colt in my 454 before using them in my 45 Colt Redhawk . If any thing looks like the pressure is to high then I backed off. These days I go for accy and seldom reach max in the Ruger only table but still above normal loads .
If you would like the loads I used I will see if I have the load data on my bench .

[MePlat]

SHOOTALL:
Yes please send the loads via PM so someone won't try using them.
I am very curious as what the loads are.  I checked my Hornady manual and the are a couple loads for the Contender that was higher than the revolver loads by maybe a couple grains but H110 and W296 were just a few tenth's higher.  Not enough to cause any damage to an otherwise sound revolver.
That is why I am curious as to the loads.

Thanks

[SHOOTALL]

Will do but it might be tomorrow .

[Tallwalker]

Your gun is also chambered in .45 ACP which is the same diameter, and is factory loaded to about 21,000 psi if I remember correctly. At any rate, I would be quite comfortable loading a modern Model 25 to ACP pressures whether in .45 Colt, or 45 ACP chambering.

[Gene R]

Thanks guys, but the Linebaugh HS-6 loads were way too hot and not comfortable, and caused them to jump crimp (Heavy Crimp). I'm back to titefroup at 6.2 gr and they are working better for me, and went through both sides of a 55 gal drumb and 2 sheets of 1/2" plywood. I'll try this for a while.

[SHOOTALL]

what do you want your bullet to do ? heavy slow bullets go deep. light fast bullets expand and cause alot of damage. I load hot to flaten out the bullet arc. so effective range (point blank ) is better . This all hinges on bullet selection .

[MePlat]

I guess I am in a minority on crimp jumping.
If you would catagorize crimp as light,  medium and heavy I crimp I would say between light and medium and have had no trouble with that situation.  I check my loads too after 5 I check the sixth to see if it has moved and so far haven't had a bit of trouble.  In my 45/8's BH I have went to 19 gr 2400 and also 24 gr H110 with the RCBS 270 SAA bullet and still no crimp jumping.
Are you sure you are not crimping too hard and springing the sides of the case from the sides of the bullet?
I have used a 45 ACP taper crimp die too and with 340 gr bullet they did move very slightly but that is a different thing.
Just a medium light roll crimp does it for me.  Even in a Flattop BH in 44 Special at 1150 with the 250 Keith.

[Gene R]

It was not sprung out, it was set. I am not sure, but I contributed it to the light gun and heavy load. I use the same crimp using 7-8gr of Titegroup in a Ruger BH 5.5" and never had a problem. I'm NO EXPERT when it comes to reloading. I have only been reloading for about 2-3 years and only load for straight wall handgun calibers, 45 colt, 357 mag, and 44 mag. I will start soon on some 454 casuell and 460 S&W mag for my son.

[MePlat]

It would be hard to see if it was sprung out with the eye.  It can happen believe it.
I have loaded several thousand rounds of 454 Casull and had no problem with crimp on them.  I crimp heavier but not hard.  I have used a set of 45 Colt RCBS dies that I bought in the mid 80's and have never had any trouble using my FA revolvers.
Maybe I am just lucky I don't know. 
Start medium and then increase if you need to.