new plastic revolvers ?

[jimster]

When I gave my opinion on the original post I had revolvers in mind.  I would never get used to a plastic frame or anything else on a revolver.

If we are talking semi-auto's now...well, that's a different deal, some of the plastic pistols have proven themselves to be easy to carry and reliable.
I'll still like the looks of an all steel pistol better though, as far as sitting in the den and just looking at them.  I got used to plastic pistols a long time ago.   There just isn't enough time in my life to get used to plastic revolvers.  I can only go so far with this plastic thing I guess. 

[Spirithawk]

When I gave my opinion on the original post I had revolvers in mind.  I would never get used to a plastic frame or anything else on a revolver.

If we are talking semi-auto's now...well, that's a different deal, some of the plastic pistols have proven themselves to be easy to carry and reliable.
I'll still like the looks of an all steel pistol better though, as far as sitting in the den and just looking at them.  I got used to plastic pistols a long time ago.   There just isn't enough time in my life to get used to plastic revolvers.  I can only go so far with this plastic thing I guess.  

Now I'll agree with you on plastic revolvers. I didn't know they made one. Where my Kel Tec PF-9 9mm is concerned, some might think it ugly, but from a tactical and self defense weapon view point, I really like the looks of it. It looks like it was meant to do a job and I'm here to tell you, it works better than a lot of more expensive semi autos. I like it.   I like me P-32 .32 Auto as well. They aren't really pretty, but kinda sharp in a buisness like way. What is cool is that the 9mm weighs 18 )z fully loaded and the .32 just 8oz fully loaded. Combine that withh how small and thin they are and their a breeze to conceal even were you just wearing shorts a a t-shirt. When most guys conceal carry guns are left in their vehicle or at home mine are always with me. That's as it should be! Heck, the PF-9 is just a fraction over 3/4" thick.






(mm size compared to the .32 on top.

[SHOOTALL]

With regard to plastic one LEO told me they had a Glock come apart when it was used as a clup in a fight . May an issue for some?

[Spirithawk]

With regard to plastic one LEO told me they had a Glock come apart when it was used as a clup in a fight . May an issue for some?

True, but if that was major criteria in selecting a firearm then why not disquallify the majority because they don't double as knives?

[SHOOTALL]

They exceed knives as we all know not to bring a knife to a gun fight. 
I mentioned it because I see it as an inferior aspect of the plastic weapon in rough use. Something some may not have considered or not been exposed to.
BTW his PD is still using Glocks .

[Spirithawk]

Ya know bud. I wish me and you could sit and talkover a pot of coffee. I think, though we might not always agree, that we both would sure enjoy it. 

[Savage]

Yep, the small short rails on the Glock make them a poor impact weapon! I can see where the slide would be easy to knock off if used as one. I can see it happening too, when necessary you use whatever happens to be in your hand. Still wouldn't stop me from carrying one. When working, I always carried a backup anyway.
Savage

[SHOOTALL]

Ya know bud. I wish me and you could sit and talkover a pot of coffee. I think, though we might not always agree, that we both would sure enjoy it. 

Might but I like tea 

[SHOOTALL]

Yep, the small short rails on the Glock make them a poor impact weapon! I can see where the slide would be easy to knock off if used as one. I can see it happening too, when necessary you use whatever happens to be in your hand. Still wouldn't stop me from carrying one. When working, I always carried a backup anyway.
Savage

It was a take down and it worked out . They like the glocks it seems . Why wouldn't they ? same for military . You have a gun that is cheap to build, cheap to buy , cheap to repair and cheap to replace.
The guy who wants long term storage and lives far from a repair shop might like it for ease of switching parts on his own . I would just rather have something more solid

[mrussel]

Plastic and guns go together about like ketchup on a banana

Really? Tell that to the military and law enforcement. They might beg to differ. In fact, I know they would.  Weapons fall into categories; Hunting, Law Enforcement, Tactical, Military, Self Defense, Sporting, ect. ect. ect. To choose one type and judge all the others by it alone is just a bit foolish don't ya think? Each has a purpose and is designed accordingly. If you don't like, nor have a need, for one type who are you to criticize someone else who does or the weapon itself? Would you buy an AR-15 to hunt ducks? Of course not. Neither would you by a $3,000 over/under shotgun, or a presentation grade Ruger No. 1 to carry openly on the rack of an ATV over rough terrain and in bad weather. But you sure might a synthetic stocked weapon and think nothing of it because you know it is designed to handle things and still get the job done. What you all that bash the "plastic guns" fail to understand is that the beauty of them is not in the apearance as much as it is in the functionability and design to get the job done. You don't buy a new flashy Mercedes sedan to go mudding nor rock crawling. You buy, or build a rig designed to do those things. Park them side by side and which is the more beautiful? It depends on who you ask. The guy watching the show in his buiseness suit and high dollar Mercedes or the driver trying to take first place in a well designed and built  4 X 4! Same with guns! Pretty is nice but pretty doesn't always get the job done.

 I hate most of the plastic guns. The ones I have held feel like a pack of cigarettes in my  hand and are big and blocky and in my opinion dont conceal well. That being said,there are some very solid reliable plastic framed guns out there. If none of my objections apply to you,in other words,if you think they feel fine in your hand,and you dont need to conceal them,then they are great. I would never tell anyone they were BAD guns. They are not. I just dont like them.

[Spirithawk]

Quoting mrussel - I hate most of the plastic guns. The ones I have held feel like a pack of cigarettes in my  hand and are big and blocky and in my opinion dont conceal well. That being said,there are some very solid reliable plastic framed guns out there. If none of my objections apply to you,in other words,if you think they feel fine in your hand,and you dont need to conceal them,then they are great. I would never tell anyone they were BAD guns. They are not. I just dont like them.

Then you've just held the wrong ones. Yes, being use to a much heavier weapon makes polymer ones feel very light. Gee, that's part of the reason they are made, because folks get tired of carrying a brick around all day. I do need to conceal my handguns. CCW means Conceal Carry Weapon. Just how hard do you think it is to conceal a handgun that is just a fraction over 3/4" thick, 5.85" long, 4.3" high and weighs 18 ounces fully loaded? And that's the 9mm, the .32 is even lighter and smaller. Kel Tec makes nonpretentious firearms specificly for concealment by CCW holders and undercover law enforcement. Their designs filled peoples needs so well that practicly every big name company that makes handguns stumbled all over themselves making copies! The PF-9 has proved to feed more reliably and be more accurate than firearms such as Glock, Springfield Armory's XD's and many others, all good handguns themselves. The P-32 makes a great back up too. If I had a dollar for every time I had a friend tell me they left their handgun at home, or in their car, because it was too heavy, bulky,or hard to conceal I could buy me a custom Wilson Combat to play with! My Kel Tecs are never too heavy, and never hard to conceal so they are always with me.They do what I bought them for and do so quite well. Better than a long list of handguns I considered. Am I happy with them? Why wouldn't I be?  I am VERY happy with them Those that don't like polymer firearms use the same reasons. Not pretty, don't feel good in my hands. Well, most polymer weapons fall into the tactical weapon class. Tactical weapons aren't made to be pretty. As far as not feeling good in the hand, just ask that question of someone who carries one and who has trusted their, and those around them, lives to one. They'll tell you they feel very good in their hands. If you don't like them that's your right. Just try not to dislike them for the wrong reasons. There are poor polymer weapons just like there are poor all steel ones. Most saturday night specials are all steel but that sure don't make all steel weapons bad now does it?

[SHOOTALL]

here we were talking plastiv revolvers and weight wise and size wise they are close to S&W j frames , the 340 is lighter . So lets reflect on them not glocks and XD's

[Spirithawk]

here we were talking plastiv revolvers and weight wise and size wise they are close to S&W j frames , the 340 is lighter . So lets reflect on them not glocks and XD's

I mentioned Glocks and XD's simply because that is the weapons I've seen the PF-9 compared too in reviews such as in Guns & Ammo. Plus, I wasn't quoting you I was quoting and answering mrussel. You don't like polymer weapons. Fine, I don't like Smith & Wesson. I think they have gone down hill and their newer firearms don't compare to their older ones. I think they are simply living and selling off their past reputation with little concern for quallity. They still make a few good handguns but they've been putting out some real junk too.  Your opinion. My opinion. Both just opinions. Wanna compare my PF-9 to your J frame Smith? Lets do that. I'm betting I can fire more shots through the PF-9, faster and more accurately, than you can with your J frame or any other revolver. I base that on comparisons already done by many others and by knowing my PF-9. Plus, when you are empty and trying to reload, I'll still be firing. Should I need to reload I'll also bet that I can drop my magazine and pop a fully loaded one in before you can empty and reload your Smith, even with a speed loader. Admitedly, the stats say your J frame weighs 1oz less, unloaded, than my PF-9. Loaded they are probably about ther same. BUttttt, personaly, I can't see paying $850 dollars more for a handgun that kicks harder, holds less rounds, is less accurate, and weighs a mere 1oz less, and according to reviews I read, feels awkward in the pocket should you need to carry it there, just because it's pretty. Reading reviews on the J frame, the accuracy is not much to brag about at all. A pro states he can hit the target at 25 yards 3 out of 5 shots fairly regularly taking deliberate aim. At that range, and past, I can put all 8 rounds into the target every single time with the PF-9 rapid fire. The reviews on the J frame also say that due to it's only holding 5 rounds it is a marginal choice for a self defense carry weapon and your .357 J frame is very hard on the hands to practice with. Reviews on the PF-9 say it is a perfect choice in every way and I can speak from exsperience that practice with it is quite enjoyable. You carry your's for your reasons, I carry mine for mine and I know I'll be happy and I hope you will be too.

[mrussel]

Quoting mrussel - I hate most of the plastic guns. The ones I have held feel like a pack of cigarettes in my  hand and are big and blocky and in my opinion dont conceal well. That being said,there are some very solid reliable plastic framed guns out there. If none of my objections apply to you,in other words,if you think they feel fine in your hand,and you dont need to conceal them,then they are great. I would never tell anyone they were BAD guns. They are not. I just dont like them.

Then you've just held the wrong ones. Yes, being use to a much heavier weapon makes polymer ones feel very light. Gee, that's part of the reason they are made, because folks get tired of carrying a brick around all day. I do need to conceal my handguns. CCW means Conceal Carry Weapon. Just how hard do you think it is to conceal a handgun that is just a fraction over 3/4" thick, 5.85" long, 4.3" high and weighs 18 ounces fully loaded? And that's the 9mm, the .32 is even lighter and smaller. Kel Tec makes nonpretentious firearms specificly for concealment by CCW holders and undercover law enforcement. Their designs filled peoples needs so well that practicly every big name company that makes handguns stumbled all over themselves making copies! The PF-9 has proved to feed more reliably and be more accurate than firearms such as Glock, Springfield Armory's XD's and many others, all good handguns themselves. The P-32 makes a great back up too. If I had a dollar for every time I had a friend tell me they left their handgun at home, or in their car, because it was too heavy, bulky,or hard to conceal I could buy me a custom Wilson Combat to play with! My Kel Tecs are never too heavy, and never hard to conceal so they are always with me.They do what I bought them for and do so quite well. Better than a long list of handguns I considered. Am I happy with them? Why wouldn't I be?  I am VERY happy with them Those that don't like polymer firearms use the same reasons. Not pretty, don't feel good in my hands. Well, most polymer weapons fall into the tactical weapon class. Tactical weapons aren't made to be pretty. As far as not feeling good in the hand, just ask that question of someone who carries one and who has trusted their, and those around them, lives to one. They'll tell you they feel very good in their hands. If you don't like them that's your right. Just try not to dislike them for the wrong reasons. There are poor polymer weapons just like there are poor all steel ones. Most saturday night specials are all steel but that sure don't make all steel weapons bad now does it?

 I look at them occasionally,but so far I have not found one that fits my hand as well as a Browning Hi Power or a 1911. I agree ,they are lighter and for those that are bothered by the weight of a gun on their hip,that's important. In fact,for many people who have to carry one for their job,that plus a bunch of other stuff on their belt may be too much weight and every ounce you can save IS a big deal. For me though,its how comfortable it is in my hand which translates to how well I shoot it. Some of that's just my preference. The rest is probably becuase the perfect handgun was made by FN in 1935 and everyone else has been spinning their wheels ever since. 

[Spirithawk]

I have always been one to insist on good fit with any weapon. I don't care how exspensive or well made it is, if it don't feel right to you you're not going to shoot well with it. I had heard a few people say they were afraid that the Kel Tec PF-9, being so small and light, would be uncomfortable to shoot.  That's why I tried one, along with many other handguns, before buying. I was pleasantly surprised at how comfortable it proved to be. I truly enjoy shooting it. I have moderately large hands and added the grip exstention but that was all I needed to do and it came free with the gun. The PF-9 has sights I can easily see and they line up quickly and easily just naturaly pointing. That too was a very big plus for me. Due to my son's profession, he quickly learned an important lesson about having to carry a heavy firearm for long periods of time. I've been there and done that myself. That problem went right out the window with our Kel tecs though he still packs an XD .45 and a Para sub compact .45 at times as well. The thing about the Kel Tecs is that they are ALWAYS with us and easily so.  As for "perfect" fit and feel? I'm very old school. To me no other handgun ever made feels like a Colt 1860 Old Army .44. They broke the mold after making that handgun. The ballance and feel of it in the hand is surpassed by no other handgun ever made.

[SHOOTALL]

Sprithawk , I really have little concern what you tote or like for that matter. I really don't care why you went off topic or that you did or who caused you to. You stated what you wanted to . I wanted the topic I started to get back on Topic  REVOLVERS MADE OF PLASTIC .
 As for S&W yes their guns have gone up and down in quality . As for you stating what I like and don't like is out of line . I have and carry a full size Glock 20 . I use it alot and know its good points and bad points . I like to point out both or when others point out the good points I like to blance it with the short commings . I feel it only fair that those not in the know see both sides. As to plastic revolvers there is alot I don't care for . I hope someone who has spent the money to live with one steps up and tells us the good and bad points . I don't care about cheap plastic autos here.

[jlwilliams]

  The only plastic revolver I've handled is the Ruger.  My first reaction was "That would be nice on the belt", not that it would be nice to look at.  It would never look like a nice old Police Positive in lusterous blue or nickle.  It's just for carry.

  I think it's all about preferance.  Doesn't sound like they've won Shootall's heart and wallet, but they seem to be winning somebodies 'cause they do sell.  Same with the Judge.  I don't want one, but enough somebodies do.  Good for them that get them and them that sell them.

 

[SHOOTALL]

I had the kel-tec also , a friend had their 9 , I lost count of the Glocks I have had/shot over the years and there is no magic in any of them . They are all low budget guns ment for either police- military budgets or people who wanr a cheap gun . Nothing really wrong with that at all , just pointing out what they are . The reason I have the 20 is price if it gets ruined no big loss . And Glocks work most of the time.

[SHOOTALL]

Hit wrong key, anyway a revolver in the same sense on the 4 wheeler while fishing or such ( for snake shot) might be an option other than cost is about equal so far .

[Spirithawk]

Shootall, you wanted to know why people like plastic guns so just how is my telling you my reasons going off topic? To satisfy you I went as far as to compare the PF-9 to your J frame Smith which you, not I, brought into the conversation. However, comparing plastic guns to all metal ones is pertanent to your question. In reality, you asked a question and then proceeded to answer it yourself (in your opinion);


 You have a gun that is cheap to build, cheap to buy , cheap to repair and cheap to replace.

They are all low budget guns ment for either police- military budgets or people who wanr a cheap gun.

That's rather broad statements for someone who says they don't care what someone else carries. Fact is that people like them for a wide variety of reasons which I'm sure you already know. I'm positive I'm not the only one who owns one because it is light to carry, easy to conceal, is well made, has way better than average accuracy, has outstanding reviews ( both private & proffesional), and yes, is affordable. With affordable being just one of many reasons to own it. No, I wouldn't necesarily use mine as a club but as to durability? The Kel Tecs, aka plastic guns, have exceeded both comercial and military tests. They have been dropped, on hard surfaces, from over 12 foot high without breaking nor going off. Better than some all metal guns might do. That answer your question why people like them? You clearly stated that the main reason you don't like them is their looks. Just what does pretty looks have to do with function? For myself, I buy most of my firearms to use not to look at. Plasic is plastic, whether on a long arm or short. My son has a very nice Ruger All Weather Mark II 7mm mag. It was designed to be tough in all conditions. So, do you consider it a cheap fiream made for low budget law enforcement or military? Clearly there are some very good reasons for such firearms long and short.

[SHOOTALL]

I ask about revolvers ! Careing about what people carry has little to do with facts about the guns. Glocks have their share of problems also. Most guns do , whats your point ?
Yes I offered what I thought and welcome your thoughts with regard to revolvers , nuff said !

[Spirithawk]

You know what? You are absolutely correct. Sorry, I'm just so tired of people trashing ALL so called plastic guns that all I saw was plastic and I missed the obvious. Where plastic "revolvers" are concerned I agree but with a few reservations. I'd give one the benifit of a doubt untill reading a variety of reviews by a variety of sources. Then I'd want to handle one myself and see how it holds up doing what I need it to do before passing final judgement, but as of now I'm not sure polymer is a wise choice for a revolvers frame. But then, with all the new space aged polymers and being as I'm not a chemist, who's to really say without factual stats? Again, my apology, my bad on thinking you meant all plastic handguns.

[SHOOTALL]

I think what I worry about is the plastic will hold up in wet places but the springs may not and they are not in view . Time will tell .

[Spirithawk]

I think what I worry about is the plastic will hold up in wet places but the springs may not and they are not in view . Time will tell .

Yep, but then isn't that a concern with any firearm? Any time my son and I take a firearm out and use it that firearm is cleaned and oiled before putting back up. As to those we carry, pretty much 24/7, they see regular mainenance as well. Can't blame the firearm for poor, or nonexistant, maintenance. If in a survival situation, well thought out choice of gear should be thought of before hand. For instance, I alwas carry a silicone treated gun cloth with me. Just fold it up in a smal plastic bag and stick it in my pocket. A tiny bottle of gun oil don't take up much space either. Sure, some weapons are quite hard to strip and lube all parts but that applies to all kinds of weapons not just so called plastic ones. If moisture is a real issue then researching and finding a weapon suited to that kind of enviroment is just plain smart to begin with.

[LocnLod]

I think what I worry about is the plastic will hold up in wet places but the springs may not and they are not in view . Time will tell .

What do you mean they aren't in view?  Do you mean under the grip?

Back to the original post, you are probably talking about the Ruger LCR and the S&W new Bodyguard.  My comments:

Ruger:  they did not have a lightweight revo to compete on the CCW market.  They knew that an alloy gun would be judged against the S&W 642/442 and would be harder and more expensive to make, so they went with plastic.  The trigger module is a new design and improved over the J frame.  B/c it's the first successful plastic revolver, there's hype and they aren't directly competing with a S&W product.  Though the standard sights are a little better and the trigger is a little better it's not enough for me to choose over a 642/442/340 which is proven and has an accessory market.

S&W new bodyguard:  They wanted a cheap way to put a laser on a gun now that they are all the rage.  The new gun is almost $200 less than an alloy J frame with a crimson trace laser.  I personally don't like that you have to turn it on and that it has multiple modes, and that the cylinder latch is on top.

I have a 340M&P for carry.  It's light weight, has a big tritium front sight, crimson trace grips and in .357 so I never have to worry about wearing it out practicing with .38+Ps.  If either of the above plastic guns was a marked improvement I would consider them.  I could care less what they are made of as long as there aren't major issues reported by users (as with any new gun).  A gun to protect your life is a tool.  If you are choosing them based on looks, you're missing the point. 

[mrussel]

So what am I missing ?

I didn't know the attraction of Glocks till I shot one, and the 24 or so police department's guns kept going without breakdown or malfunction up the neighborhood of 20,000 rounds, each.  They're not pretty, there is no "wow" factor.  They are the fiberglass handled framing hammers of the gun world. The don't break, they are always gonna go "bang", and you see a lot of them on "tool belts", so to speak. 

Not a fan of plastic wheelguns, though. Sorry.

 I didn't realize it but apparently the Glock isn't suitable for self defense. I know they SEEM reliable,but the dont have a forged steel frame and they have MIM parts in them,but more importantly,as "everyone" knows,they are not a 3000 dollar custom 1911 and everyone knows that that is the ONLY gun that is suitable for self defense. If you dont carry that,you might as well not even bother. ;-)

[mrussel]

You know what? You are absolutely correct. Sorry, I'm just so tired of people trashing ALL so called plastic guns that all I saw was plastic and I missed the obvious. Where plastic "revolvers" are concerned I agree but with a few reservations. I'd give one the benifit of a doubt untill reading a variety of reviews by a variety of sources. Then I'd want to handle one myself and see how it holds up doing what I need it to do before passing final judgement, but as of now I'm not sure polymer is a wise choice for a revolvers frame. But then, with all the new space aged polymers and being as I'm not a chemist, who's to really say without factual stats? Again, my apology, my bad on thinking you meant all plastic handguns.

 It certainly seems to me that polymers should be able to have enough strength for the frame. I also wonder why we dont see graphite composites used. I dont much care for the plastic guns like the glocks, and similarly I dont like the idea of a plastic revolver,and I dont know if the ones being made are decent,but in theory it should be possible. Im still allowed to prefer metal,but Im not going try to say they are bad,just becuase I dont like them.

[Spirithawk]

So what am I missing ?

I didn't know the attraction of Glocks till I shot one, and the 24 or so police department's guns kept going without breakdown or malfunction up the neighborhood of 20,000 rounds, each.  They're not pretty, there is no "wow" factor.  They are the fiberglass handled framing hammers of the gun world. The don't break, they are always gonna go "bang", and you see a lot of them on "tool belts", so to speak. 

Not a fan of plastic wheelguns, though. Sorry.

 I didn't realize it but apparently the Glock isn't suitable for self defense. I know they SEEM reliable,but the dont have a forged steel frame and they have MIM parts in them,but more importantly,as "everyone" knows,they are not a 3000 dollar custom 1911 and everyone knows that that is the ONLY gun that is suitable for self defense. If you dont carry that,you might as well not even bother. ;-)

Gee, do you think the bad guy would terribly mind it if I shot him with my $300 Kel Tec 9mm instead of a $3,000 1911? I'd hate to have to apologise to him after he's dead. 

[SHOOTALL]

Some of the poly guns are having cracked frames and are being replaced . My concern would be points like the cyl. pin etc being in plastic wearing faster than a metal gun . As to the springs and maintance if I got a plastic revolver that is suppose to stand up to sweat and moisture better than a metal gun then only to find the springs and few metal parts rusted would be bad. I carry every day and my gun sees everything from dust - swear- rain-mud -heat-cold-pocket lint-pocket trash-on and on. No I don't clean it every day . Sometimes the trigger was hard to pull on a mod. 38 body guard from grit that got in while working on ground works. I switched to a 340PD with a more closed action for that reason . As for the 1911 no matter the cost it is a nice carry gun some times but I find it better suited to a truck gun most of the time My pocket gun is always there . My intrest in a plastic gun is to point out the good and bad . They are new and some improvments will surely come . As far as a defense gun and lazers go simple is best BUT ALWAYS KNOW YOUR SIGHTS incase battries go dead

[LocnLod]

Some of the poly guns are having cracked frames and are being replaced . My concern would be points like the cyl. pin etc being in plastic wearing faster than a metal gun . As to the springs and maintance if I got a plastic revolver that is suppose to stand up to sweat and moisture better than a metal gun then only to find the springs and few metal parts rusted would be bad. I carry every day and my gun sees everything from dust - swear- rain-mud -heat-cold-pocket lint-pocket trash-on and on. No I don't clean it every day . Sometimes the trigger was hard to pull on a mod. 38 body guard from grit that got in while working on ground works. I switched to a 340PD with a more closed action for that reason . As for the 1911 no matter the cost it is a nice carry gun some times but I find it better suited to a truck gun most of the time My pocket gun is always there . My intrest in a plastic gun is to point out the good and bad . They are new and some improvments will surely come . As far as a defense gun and lazers go simple is best BUT ALWAYS KNOW YOUR SIGHTS incase battries go dead

Good points on the Bodyguard and lasers.  I never was a fan of the open area around the little hammer bud on a Bodyguard.  Lint chute right into the action!  You can stage the trigger on a DAO 642/442/340 if you need a super accurate shot.  Also good point on the lasers.  Most of my practice, I turn mine off. 

Regarding rust, metal parts are metal parts and need to be treated as such.  As far as internals go, I haven't looked inside of these revolvers (and it sounds like you haven't either and are speculating) but I cannot imagine that they would have metal rubbing plastic in the important areas.  They don't want to warranty these guns as much as you don't want them to wear out.