Rifle reviews

[bhod1]

I rarely see a review on a non-Remington 700 that shoots better than 1 1/2" at 100 yards.  I never see a Model 700 review that shows groups over 1" at 100 yards with at least one factory ammo.  I've been checking them carefully for about 35 years.

I'll give you a review of a Remington.
A member of my gun club finally got picked for a moose permit here in Maine after over 20 years. He went out and ordered a brand new Rem 7600. when it finally came in just a few weeks before the hunt he had a Leu put on it and took it to the range. But... the best group of the day was 5" and as big as 12".
He called his son and the next weekend... same result. He handed the rifle to his son, who grabbed it by the barrel...THE BARREL FELL COMPLETELY OFF THE RIFLE!

No lie, No exaggeration. The whole gun just disintegrated in his hands. Why? Because it was another POS Remington product. If he had bought a real rifle he could have used it on that moose hunt.

[bhod1]

if guys deprived of sleep and time to clean their weapons properly (beat up in the field and probably rebuilt a couple times) can pull off record shots with dirty scope lenses while in mortal danger overseas then 700's are good to go. 

ps- some of those guys are even ARMY, so just think of what a marine could do with a 700.  oh my bad, carlos hathcock already took care of that one.  OH SON! 

Except that those rifles are a 700 action with $3000 worth of custom work.  I could get a piece of 1" tube stock from the local dump and make it into a heck of a rifle with $3000.

[patrickjames]

Your right about the Mini-14. I think I have owned about 6 over the years and never got one that would shoot worth a crap.I just bought a Remington VTR in .243,man does that thing shoot.Took me a while to get use to the triangular barrel.Shoot just about as good as my Sako.Hope Remington don't put a contract out on old swamp for running off business.

[Coyote Hunter]

I rarely see a review on a non-Remington 700 that shoots better than 1 1/2" at 100 yards.  I never see a Model 700 review that shows groups over 1" at 100 yards with at least one factory ammo.  I've been checking them carefully for about 35 years.

Clearly you don't read much.

[Coyote Hunter]

I consider 1" at 100 yards acceptable accuracy.  That's not much to ask IMO.

I do wish my Remingotn M700 .30-06, manufactured in 2005 and purchased new by me in 2008, would do 1.5" consistently. 

So far, with various types of factory ammo, including gree, and various handloads it has failed to do so.  That , however, is consistent with what I have witnessed with both of the new M700's I've shot in the last couple years.Two for two isn't a high sample rate, but it is 100%  and disappointing nevertheless - especially since one of them is mine.

[Coyote Hunter]

jmayton –

While I can’t speak to the reviewers, I can report my experience with my varmint rigs:

1.   Savage 110E .22-250 hand-me-down from Dad.  This rifle would put 5 shots on paper at 100 yards and you could cover the group with a dime. 
2.   Ruger MKII VT .22-250.  Four shots into .5” at 200 yards.  Need I say more?
3.   Ruger M77 .257 Roberts, manufactured in 1989 and purchased used by me in 2004.  Dual purpose rifle.  The photo below says all that needs to be said.



By the way, the Roberts shoots only slightly larger groups with 110g TTSX, 110g AccuBond, 115g TSX and 120g A-Frames.  It is easily my favorite rifle.

[guzzijohn]

Maybe I went to high school with Swampman's brother. This guy swore that his stock 58 Ford with a straight six was good for 13 second quarter miles! 
GuzziJohn

[Swampman]

I consider 1" at 100 yards acceptable accuracy.  That's not much to ask IMO.

I do wish my Remingotn M700 .30-06, manufactured in 2005 and purchased new by me in 2008, would do 1.5" consistently. 

So far, with various types of factory ammo, including gree, and various handloads it has failed to do so.  That , however, is consistent with what I have witnessed with both of the new M700's I've shot in the last couple years.Two for two isn't a high sample rate, but it is 100%  and disappointing nevertheless - especially since one of them is mine.

I'd never play a game of chance if I were you.  You've managed to find the only Model 700 ever made that wouldn't shoot MOA or better right out of the box with factory ammo.

[Squib]

you two need to arm wrestle.  if swampman wins then it doesn't prove rem is better, it means he has stronger trigger fingers.  if he loses.. well then you have better trigger fingers and rem sucks?

duke it out?!  

every company makes lemons at some point.  sure, they fire the screw-ups when they find them putting out bad product but how long does it have to happen before the terd employees get caught and booted?  remington is a big operations, lots of staff means there is room for a few terds to slip in the factories now and then.  stuff happens.  it's never happened to anyone that I know or even know of, but I am sure it does sometimes.  all the talk of 700's lately has me remembering the first and only times I ever fired 770's.  I helped sight in a couple for family and they were overlapping holes (less than 100yds, it was in a backyard) so I thought they were alright and not too sloppy for cheaper guns.  my mom took one of them out that year and popped two deer consecutively (two does standing together if I remember correctly) in 2-3 seconds so they must handle and shoot decent.  my mom ain't a gun person by any means either, me and others were sighting the guns in because she doesn't know how to do it even!  So if the 700 is flawed as everyone seems to think after that hit-job on the news then why did my family acquire multiple 770's that were GREAT guns?  because the people on the assembly/production lines were drug-free, awake and motivated to put out a good product and not garbage.

[Coyote Hunter]

I consider 1" at 100 yards acceptable accuracy.  That's not much to ask IMO.

I do wish my Remingotn M700 .30-06, manufactured in 2005 and purchased new by me in 2008, would do 1.5" consistently. 

So far, with various types of factory ammo, including gree, and various handloads it has failed to do so.  That , however, is consistent with what I have witnessed with both of the new M700's I've shot in the last couple years.Two for two isn't a high sample rate, but it is 100%  and disappointing nevertheless - especially since one of them is mine.

I'd never play a game of chance if I were you.  You've managed to find the only Model 700 ever made that wouldn't shoot MOA or better right out of the box with factory ammo.

Obviously you can't count...

[Barstooler]

I consider 1" at 100 yards acceptable accuracy.  That's not much to ask IMO.

I do wish my Remingotn M700 .30-06, manufactured in 2005 and purchased new by me in 2008, would do 1.5" consistently. 

So far, with various types of factory ammo, including gree, and various handloads it has failed to do so.  That , however, is consistent with what I have witnessed with both of the new M700's I've shot in the last couple years.Two for two isn't a high sample rate, but it is 100%  and disappointing nevertheless - especially since one of them is mine.

I'd never play a game of chance if I were you.  You've managed to find the only Model 700 ever made that wouldn't shoot MOA or better right out of the box with factory ammo.

Obviously you can't count...

+1

Barstooler

[tangob5]

We all have preferences.  Most quality firearms today will shoot MOA with the right ammo.  I have a CZ Varmint Laminate in .223 that shoots 50 gr. V-max sub 1/2" @100yds.  A .270 Tikka that shoots 130 gr. soft points and ballistic tips under 1", Sako A7 in 300WM that loves everything and shoots them all sub MOA.  My CZ 550 in .243 will shoot a Barnes 85 gr. TSX or 75 gr. V-Max < 3/4" but will not shoot 100 gr. anything under 1-1/2".  A Ruger M77 30.06 (tang safety) that likes 180 gr. Core-Lokt and best groups are in the 1-1/2" range and an older (1970) CDL in 7mm Rem Mag. that can't shoot anything under 1-3/4" (doesn't matter shoots a minute of deer).  One factor I find regardless of manufacturer you have to figure out what it likes to eat.  That means buy or reload different offerings until you find what best shoots out of a particular firearm.

I seem to remember a time (not so long ago) that if a rifle shot under 2" that was considered an accurate rifle.  Weatherby was the first manufacturer to ever guarantee 1" accuracy not Remington. Sorry Swampman the Remingtons had to have some work "$" done to them to get there.  

[Swampman]

I have to wonder why you'd need something in writing to say that a rifle works like it should.  Did Weatherby have a problem and needed a way to lure it's customers back?  Everyone just expects Remingtons to shoot 1" groups out of the box because they always have and always will.

There's a reason why Remington is the choice of nearly all tactical rifle users worldwide.  It's the best.

[tangob5]

"There's a reason why Remington is the choice of nearly all tactical rifle users worldwide.  It's the best."

Is that why the Harris M-86, Sako TRG's, H&K PSG-1, Parker Hale M-85, Sig Sauer SSG 3000, British L96A1 are being used.
 
The remington platform is a good platform.  After you change the barrel, stock and trigger, blueprint the action, bed the rifle and put a very expensive scope on it you get an excellent rifle that will shoot tiny holes in paper and is deemed acceptable as a sniper rifle. That's about $2500 to $3000 for the gunsmith and another $2000 or so for the scope.  A M24 used by the Army will run you $6000.
Even the first M40's issued to the Marines in Viet Nam came from the Remington custom Shop and not from the regular production run. 

Remingtons are a good rifle but they aren't the only game in town.  By the way Weatherby came up with the MOA guarantee because no other manufacturer could claim it at the time.  Great marketing, helped them sell a lot of rifles. 

[Swampman]

Thanks for the laughs.

[Harry Snippe]

Just heard a lads rem #7 went off when he was trying to load it . It was a  not one of the older guns , just a few years old . Didn't ask what it grouped in the dirt , as he was upset enough . Guess you can use snap caps Etc at first and every thing works as intended , then you never know when ---- . And he looks after this rifles .
Ruined his Hunt  period . I felt the same way when it happened to me .

[scootrd]

Another trend I've noticed over the years is 3 shot groups vs 5 shot groups ..
I think the trend towards thin walled barrels also has more of an affect 3 vs 5 ... So all the mags start quoting "3 Shot sub MOA etc.. cause if they shot a true 5 shot string they would start to see a more pronounced spread. I take all those reviews with a grain of salt. I grew up always shooting 5 shot groups to help determine a rifles best average MOA (Cold bore / Warm Bore) Now everything I read in the rag mags is 3 shot strings and everything posted by internet warriors is 1" Blah blah blah ,. I love my Remmy mod 7 but it was not 1" MOA 3 or 5 shot groups out of the box, Loves 120 and 140 grain bullest but to this day it hates 150 grain Bullets.
 

 
Too much emphasis is placed on MOA for Whitetail hunting rifles.  
For a whitetail Rifle,  I care little about group size -  as I do about how close to the mark a single cold bore shot is going to land. My rifle is not being used for Bench rest competitions.

 -  JMHO  -

[scootrd]

Maybe I went to high school with Swampman's brother. This guy swore that his stock 58 Ford with a straight six was good for 13 second quarter miles!  
GuzziJohn

Now that funny ...I don't care who ya Are !!!
Thanks for the Laugh .

Given those stats Swampy's possible relatives 58 Ford blows the doors off 47 of the 50 fastest musclecars of all times.

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-50fast.shtml

My dream car is a 66 Tri-power GTO  - it ran in the high 13's low 14's depending on shooter err Driver.
Difficulty was keeping the three Rochester two barrel carburetors with vacuum controled linkage tuned properly.

[His lordship.]

I am currently looking at a new centerfire bolt action rifle, and I must say, things are different now than they were 10 years ago.  So much selection, and accuracy for affordable prices.  I even worked the bolts at a local store of the Mossberg and TC, etc. so smooth for cheap guns. 

I got soured on the larger (.30 cal. and above) bolt actions years ago as they always had some kind of problem, accuracy was inconsistent, it seemed that you had to drop time and money into them to get the gun to shoot tight groups.  Nice to know there might be future for one of the new bolt actions in my gun safe, looking at .270 or .308 as the ammo is available.

[mcwoodduck]

I am currently looking at a new centerfire bolt action rifle, and I must say, things are different now than they were 10 years ago.  So much selection, and accuracy for affordable prices.  I even worked the bolts at a local store of the Mossberg and TC, etc. so smooth for cheap guns. 

I got soured on the larger (.30 cal. and above) bolt actions years ago as they always had some kind of problem, accuracy was inconsistent, it seemed that you had to drop time and money into them to get the gun to shoot tight groups.  Nice to know there might be future for one of the new bolt actions in my gun safe, looking at .270 or .308 as the ammo is available.

Chris,
With factory ammo out to 200 yards you are not going to have a problem with either caliber off the bench.
Personally I like 308 over 270Win.  Both work.  and even if you get a 3" group at 200 yards that is still good enough to stick a bullet in the boiler room on a deer sized animal.  I think you are going to have more trouble with winds wipping around the woods, ridgelines, or fields more than the accuracy of the rifle.
I think some of the accuracy claims made by some people are what is causing concerns with their rifles.
I just got back from Montana where I was helping a buddy elk hunt.  His cousin made some holly cow statements to me about his 7mm Mag.
statement 1:  his reloads had him tossing a 165 grain bullet at just under 4,000 FPS with only slight signs of pressure.
statement 2: his reloads had him shooting "Inch and a half groups at 300 yards, off the bench of course".
I looked at him and said "that's great"  In my head I was yelling NO POSSIBLE WAY!  I wanted to reach into my wallet and bet him $20 a shot he could not do that.
7mm mag loads in every book I have ever looked in have a 160grain bullets at max about 3K to 3,200  I can understand maybe getting the bullets 5 to 10% over max with new loading data and powders.  But not 30%
the accuracy was not to be believed either.  While you may get 1/2" at 100 yards, you may get 1" at 200 yards (in an indoor range with no ventilation)
You will not get 1.5" groups at 300 yards for any number of reasons.  The first being wind.  The second being the bullet will have micro dents, as well as actual dents in the jacket or the exposed lead, or polymer that will move the bullets farther than that apart.  The powder has to be exact, loaded on the same day for humidity, and the primers have to be exact, the wind and the barrel, ground, ammunition, temperture, and fouling would have to the same. 
Things that are not possible to produce that small of a group over 300 yards.
After all your chrono gives you a standard divation.  You may weight out every charge two or three times to make sure they are prefect but you will still get a divation in your speeds.  Those divations are what spread your groups.

[BBF]

mc duck

So did you get elk(s) ??

[mcwoodduck]

mc duck

So did you get elk(s) ??

I did not have tags.  I put in for a deer tag and did not get drawn.  I went to push/ spot/ cook/ gut/ drag/ Haul/ locate.
My buddy and his father only had Bull tags with brow tines.
Out of the group of 8 there were 2 Bulls with brow tines one a 5X5 the other was a 5X6
and three cows (I found one after the kid hit  it and it ran off and he could not find it- I have a gift to find downed game)  I found it and then went back to the trail head. They told me by radio went back to the trail head and acted like I knew nothing of it, the kid thought he hit it.  I touched his rifle, did this whole fake psycic thing where I chaneled the dead Cow and said follow me and led him and a few others to the critter.  My buddy, his father and the kids father got a huge laugh out of it.  Freaked the kid out for a littel while till I he saw I had a radio and then knew I knew about the downed cow.
and one Spike- that was taged with a cow tag-  I was pived about that - area was Brow tine bull only and they can tag spikes with cow tags.
Other than that my buddy shot a hybrid Mule Whitetail Deer.
White tail rack (east coast 8 point western 4 point) and body colors, mule deer face color and ears.   the tail was whitetailed colored but mule deer size.
The eye guards on the rack were triangle shaped.

[BBF]

One of my regrets in this life never having the opportunity to hunt elk.

[mcwoodduck]

One of my regrets in this life never having the opportunity to hunt elk.

Day ain't over yet!
Drawings for tickets and there are millions of acres of Public land out there as well as a few ranches that allow you to hunt but on foot or horse back only.

[tuck2]

I purchased my first centerfire rifle in 1952. Over the years I have tryed out various brands  of rifles and cartridges.  Some rifles needed one or more of the following to get them to shoot small five shoot 100 yard groups.  Glass bed the action, freefloat the barrel, lapp the bolt locking luggs, remove wood from under the bolt handle, shorten the magazine box, lapp the muzzle, and adjust the trigger pull.  Ammo was reloads and the rifles were shot off a bench rest.  Every rifle is a bit different so you dont know what you got untill you shoot it..  A Remington 700 LS 221 Fireball and Remington 700 270 bolt locking luggs needed to be lapped. Only one locking lug showed any contact on the 270 rifle.  The worst  barrel rifleing was on a Winchester  70 post 62 243. The most accurate out of the box rifle was a Ruger 77 Target 204 Ruger followed by a Browning Varmint 223 Rem. Got 1/2 inch groups from them. Iv owned about 80 firearms ,mostly bolt action rifles and a few lever, slide action, semiauto rifles and a few shotguns and hand guns.-----Rifle reviews are about one firearm, if they would get ten rifles of the same brand style and caliber and test fire them the reports my mean something.

[Coyote Hunter]

...
My dream car is a 66 Tri-power GTO  - it ran in the high 13's low 14's depending on shooter err Driver.
Difficulty was keeping the three Rochester two barrel carburetors with vacuum controled linkage tuned properly.

When I was in the service I had a 1967 Pontiac GTO convertible, blue like the photo with a white rag top.  Hood mounted tach, 4-speed Muncie, Hurst shifter, 6.5 liter.  Went to SEA and sold it.  Sure wish  I had it back...

[PowPow]

bet you didn't call it a 6.5 liter back then.

[BBF]

One of my regrets in this life never having the opportunity to hunt elk.

Day ain't over yet!

 At my age short of doing a canned hunt it is pretty much a lost cause. Nope, no canned hunt for me. BTW. I did get a Doe last evening. I'm tickled pink

[Coyote Hunter]

bet you didn't call it a 6.5 liter back then.

Actually, that's what the factory decal said.

[Swampman]

There's a good reason Pontiac no longer exist.