.31 Caliber Rifles...All Military Rounds

[lgm270]

Noticed something interesting.

All .31 Caliber rifles originated as military calibers and as far as I can see, there are no .311 calilber sporting rounds.  Military surplus calibers .31 have been "sportzerised" but no real commercial sporters ever chambered for them, at least as far as I can determine.   

They are:

.303 Brit.
7.65x53  (Argentine)
7.7 Jap
7.62x54 R

By contrast.  military originated  6.5, 7mm, .308 and .32 (.323")   calibers were commercially accepted and  have generated  many commercial calibers.

I"m not sure why this is significant, but I just noticed it. 

[davem270win]

Some 303 Savages are real 303's (.311), some are 30's (.308). I believe the Savage 99 was originally designed for military trials and was a .308 for that purpose, but Savage later changed to the .311 bore size.

[lgm270]

Some 303 Savages are real 303's (.311), some are 30's (.308). I believe the Savage 99 was originally designed for military trials and was a .308 for that purpose, but Savage later changed to the .311 bore size.

Well you got me there.  A good post Davem.

It also occurred to me that the 7.62x39  is a  .311" round for which civilian sporting rifles are chambered.

[bcp]

Google can find lots of Lee Speed rifles, a sporter in 303 British.  I believe they were sporters from the beginning and not converted from military rifles, though they used the same basic action.

Here is one comment and photo from IMFDB:
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Short_Magazine_Lee-Enfield_%28SMLE%29

The Lee-Speed was popular with British officers and other hunters who wanted a fine rifle, but couldn't afford the expensive double barrel rifles made by Purdy, Holland & Holland and other famous ,and expensive, British gun makers. The Lee-Speed was popular because it fired the British service round (.303 British) though it was also manufactured in other calibers. The "Lee - Speed" had the same action as the Lee-Enfield bolt action rifle, which allowed many British hunters and colonists in Africa to source spare parts and ammunition from British Army units based in Britain's African colonies during the late 19th and early 20th centuries

[mrussel]

Some 303 Savages are real 303's (.311), some are 30's (.308). I believe the Savage 99 was originally designed for military trials and was a .308 for that purpose, but Savage later changed to the .311 bore size.

 I beleive there is a variant of the Dragunov that is intended as a hunting rifle,made in 30-06 and 7.62x54r Interestingly Winchester made a 1895 lever action that could use Mosin Nagant stripper clips for the Russian army. I would love to get my hands on one of those!

[lgm270]

Thanks for the informative posts about the  Lee-Speed Enfield sporters and the Winchester Model 95, both of which were  chambered for the .303. I was not aware of them.

[jedman]

   I see your point,  One sporting round I thought of thats " sort of " a 31 cal. is the 32-20 round.
It uses bullets from .311 - .313 but is called a 32 ?
A 32-40 and a 32 Win. uses a bullet around .321.
No cartridge that I know of actually called a 31 caliber anything, so I guess its just something you know   
   Jedman

[moorepower]

So, how many .308 rounds were not originally a military round? 300 Savage and .300 H&H were a couple.

[mcwoodduck]

So, how many .308 rounds were not originally a military round? 300 Savage and .300 H&H were a couple.

Let's see.
30 Carbine, 30-40K, 308 Win, 30-06 all were Military that later became great sporting rounds.
30-30 is a half and half.
It was adopted by Mexican rebels and by the US Army in 94's during WWII.  was a sporting round that was pressed into military service.
I think 300 Savage was sent to a military trial once or twice.  After all is is just a short 308.
I also thing the 300 Win was pressed into service as a sniper round at one time or another and the 7mm Mag is used by the Secret Service counter snipers.
Most Military rounds have found use as Sporting rounds. 6.5X55 Sweed, 6.5X54 Manlicher, 7mm X57, 30-40K, 308 Win, 30-06, 8X57, and 45-70
there are sporting bullets for .264, .284, .308, .311, and 318 (the old 8X57) and .323 (current 8mm)
Add to these all the cartridges that these cases have spawned.

[moorepower]

The .300 Savage was a civilian before it was tried my the military, I believe.

[billy_56081]

Some 303 Savages are real 303's (.311), some are 30's (.308). I believe the Savage 99 was originally designed for military trials and was a .308 for that purpose, but Savage later changed to the .311 bore size.

 I beleive there is a variant of the Dragunov that is intended as a hunting rifle,made in 30-06 and 7.62x54r Interestingly Winchester made a 1895 lever action that could use Mosin Nagant stripper clips for the Russian army. I would love to get my hands on one of those!

I believe that 7.62x54 was the caliber that there were more made than any other. Although I have yet to see one though.

[lgm270]

So, how many .308 rounds were not originally a military round? 300 Savage and .300 H&H were a couple.

The 30-30 Winchester was a civilian round initially.  All the 300 magnums were civilian rounds.  the .30 Remington.  .300 Savage. 

[3leggedturtle]

GOOD POST never thought of this B4   but what about the  .310 Martini or Cadet forget what its called 

[securitysix]

I think 300 Savage was sent to a military trial once or twice.  After all is is just a short 308.

Other way around, actually.  The .308 Winchester was developed by lengthening the .300 Savage (not shortening the .30-06 as is commonly believed). 

[bcp]

Here's a new 303 British sporter:

http://www.ruger.com/products/no1LightSporter/specSheets/11348.html

Bruce

[billy_56081]

Here's a new 303 British sporter:

http://www.ruger.com/products/no1LightSporter/specSheets/11348.html

Bruce

ANd from reports I have heard it has an oversized bore.

[Harry Snippe]

Some 303 Savages are real 303's (.311), some are 30's (.308). I believe the Savage 99 was originally designed for military trials and was a .308 for that purpose, but Savage later changed to the .311 bore size.

I think if you did some more research you will find  Savage used the 311 bullet in the 30 bore barrels to boast the pressure , so the 303 Savage it was called . Remington loaded the 190 gr. 311 bullet while  Winchester used the 308 size bullet in the 303 Savage . Both shot well.Think Savage dropped this practice with the 22 centrefire.
( The legacy of Lever Guns -Rifle Magazine Winter Edition) is one source where I have this information and History from.

[Brithunter]

This is also a commercial .303 bore rifle:-



Begian made:-



There were also .303 doubles made but sadly I don't have one nor any photos of one. Oh the Lee Speeds were mainly made by BSA it seems who had to go into the civilian market to survive as the Government was not ordering any rifles. I have one built on a Metford carbine action complete with horn tip tot eh foire stock but when you remove the forestock there is a broad arrow impressed into the beddign shoulder of the fore stock so the wood obviopusly came off the "military" line before being cut down and re-shaped to a sporting profile.