Author Topic: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?  (Read 1082 times)

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Offline lgm270

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Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« on: November 03, 2010, 08:34:56 AM »
Check out these contemporary pictures of Detroit MI and Hiroshima Japan.  If a visitor from outer space  saw these pics and learned that Japan and the US fought each other half a century ago, that visitor might reasonably conclude that the Japanese won WW2.   

http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/spiritual/pictures/news.php?q=1254861706

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2010, 08:56:59 AM »
Check out these contemporary pictures of Detroit MI and Hiroshima Japan.  If a visitor from outer space  saw these pics and learned that Japan and the US fought each other half a century ago, that visitor might reasonably conclude that the Japanese won WW2.   

http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/spiritual/pictures/news.php?q=1254861706

No... it would be unreasonable to expect a city to be left in ruins for sixty-plus years.

Present-day Detroit is economic decline, some of it self-inflicted; 1945 Hiroshima was a slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians in a defenseless city.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline beerbelly

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2010, 10:32:02 AM »
Yep made the Japs surrender and that is a good thing!

Offline lgm270

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2010, 02:10:42 PM »
Check out these contemporary pictures of Detroit MI and Hiroshima Japan.  If a visitor from outer space  saw these pics and learned that Japan and the US fought each other half a century ago, that visitor might reasonably conclude that the Japanese won WW2.   

http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/spiritual/pictures/news.php?q=1254861706

No... it would be unreasonable to expect a city to be left in ruins for sixty-plus years.

Present-day Detroit is economic decline, some of it self-inflicted; 1945 Hiroshima was a slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians in a defenseless city.

A visitor from outer space would not know the details of the history, but would only know the two powers had fought  half a century ago and would see a thoroughly modernized Japanese city and a crumbling American one.

Offline powderman

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2010, 02:27:39 PM »
Quote
1945 Hiroshima was a slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians in a defenseless city.



Yes, but it was necessary. better them, than us. Our soldiers were told to expect at least a million allied casualties invading Japan. Thank God it was not neccessary, they surrendered. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
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Offline jimster

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2010, 03:49:36 PM »
Detroit is so bad now the cops don't go certain places. The State of Michigan usually gets out voted by the liberals in Detriot areas, but this time Detriot was unable to vote, they were all too busy dodging bullets or in jail...so Michigan turned red last night.   :)

It's a sore spot for Michiganders for sure, maybe we need to build walls around it like "Escape from New York" and turn it into a prison.

Imagine...criminals taking over an entire city and a state just lets it happen.   

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2010, 04:10:33 PM »

No... it would be unreasonable to expect a city to be left in ruins for sixty-plus years.

Present-day Detroit is economic decline, some of it self-inflicted; 1945 Hiroshima was a slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians in a defenseless city.

Yeah I feel pretty bad about it. Nahh I don't. I have no issue with cutting off the food, fuel and firepower from the enemies army. When at war with a country there are no innocents. Ya keep slaughtering em until they beg for surrender.
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Offline Pass Lake

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2010, 04:32:40 PM »
Powderman, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2010, 05:03:54 PM »
When at war with a country there are no innocents. Ya keep slaughtering em until they beg for surrender.

I'm confident that al-Queda concurs with your viewpoint.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline 1marty

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2010, 05:29:16 PM »
my dad was with the Marines on Okinawa during WW II. He always said they should of dropped a dozen more A bombs on those $%&#@*&^ Nips. I drive a Honda they are great cars-sorry dad.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2010, 05:41:08 PM »
Not appropriate for a family website.  Not even close.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2010, 05:45:08 PM »
From the Truman Library;

Quote
Any careful contemplation of the cost of an invasion would have shown a horrendous number of American casualties, as the attendees at the June 13 meeting knew, even though they did not make their points - even Leahy failed to say precisely the casualties he had in mind - as carefully as they should have. If Leahy had extrapolated for the force the U.S. Army was proposing to put on Kyushu, he would have related a figure for casualties that would have been more than one-third of 767,000, that is, more than 250,000 casualties. And if one calculated the deaths from the casualties it would have been (figuring that the American troop strength on Okinawa had been as high as 150,000, with deaths running to 13,000, as mentioned) five times the Okinawa figure, which meant 65,000.


To hell with the innocent Japanese, More would have died in an Invasion. Did ya hear about the blood letting in China when they invaded there. It was War! Kill em till they give up! Also my recommendation for this War! Its exactly how our enemy feels about it!
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Offline torpedoman

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2010, 05:56:21 PM »
I do not think that yellowtail has ever defended his country or served it in any capacity. He seems to be on the far left of any topic. You never appreciate what is given to you you really need to earn it or at the very least make a small contribution by serving. Another view is that if we had to invade the jap homeland and loose the million plus men some of us might not be here due to the lack of fathers.
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2010, 05:57:23 PM »
As we see from the posters here, war is not for the limp wristed low testosterone wimps. What did they refer to these girly men as last election time? Oh yeah metrosexuals. I think a good screen name for a limp wristed metrosexual would be,,,, oh dang what is that color they refer to as cowardly? Darn mental block. Can someone help me out here?
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2010, 01:12:11 AM »
Oh, they're talking about me!
I do not think that yellowtail has ever defended his country or served it in any capacity.
Well, then, you'd be wrong about that.
Quote
He seems to be on the far left of any topic.
that would be true, but only if you define far left as not being in tune with some of the peeps here, some of whom express noxious views that should discomfit any believing Christian. Compared to the rest of America, I'm not left at all. But you go right ahead and think that I am. The echo chamber has dulled your judgment.
Quote
Another view is that if we had to invade the jap homeland and loose the million plus men some of us might not be here due to the lack of fathers.

Myself - and this is a subject I know something about - I think the estimates of 1 million-plus KIA in Operation Olympic are exaggerated. USN didn't want to invade at all. Maybe someone will start a thread on this.
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Offline Old Fart

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2010, 04:06:48 AM »
Interesting comparision.
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2010, 04:34:58 AM »
This wouldn't even be a topic if the people of Detroit hadn't been trained like monkeys at the organ grinders feet to hold out the little tin cup for handouts. Prejudiced, yep! Don't like people that are to lazy to work, and take handouts, just because they think their special. gypsyman
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Offline powderman

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2010, 04:59:43 AM »
Fact is, ww11 was fought and won by REAL Americans, not like some posting here. If our future had depended on some here in ww11 we'd have lost the war and be a conquered people, another thing that some here are contributing to with the pantywetter liberal view. My Dad went through hell on earth, I knew some of the bad stuff he went through but learned a lot more just after his funeral. My Mom temporarily moved almost 200 miles to work in a munitions plant. She said that with her fiance and 3 brothers fighting the japs she felt that she needed to do her part. She worked a year and 1/2 and was forced to quit. Her skin had turned orange and hair was falling out from the chemicals used in making the tnt for the arty shells. She got so weak she had to crawl up the steps to the apt she was sharing with other workers. The cancer Mom has may well have come from that, we don't know. These are REAL Americans, not like the wimps and pantywetters we now have in America, or some on this board. These were just my parents, there were millions more just like them. This is what it took to keep the rights for some of you to flap your  liberal pantywetter jaws, you should be glad that people like my parents and millions of others cared enough to fight for you, I fear they would have 2 nd thoughts if they met some of you, I would. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2010, 06:03:02 AM »
Never forget Pearl Harbor, Bataan, the Rape of Nanking, and the use of war prisoners as slaves.  In an imperfect world the U.S. treatment of Japan after the surrender was far gentler.  Our treatment of Japan turned them into a post war economic power. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nanking_bodies_1937.jpg


Banzai attack and Kamikaze tactics used by the Japanese were in the minds of U.S. planners along with the knowledge that Japan was building its own atomic bomb.

A reasonable person would conclude the same tactics would be used in a greater extent when the Japanese homeland was invaded. 

Japanese submarine attacks and  fire balloon attacks along the west coast of the U.S. and Canada was clear evidence they were ready to use whatever means needed to defeat us.  President Truman was a true American hero for ordering bombing because it was clear that it was them or us.

Seeing part of a freighter that had been torpedo by a Japanese submarine in the Crescent City harbor made clear to me just how close the enemy was.
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Offline subdjoe

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2010, 06:28:11 AM »
1945 Hiroshima was a slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians in a defenseless city.

Which saved millions of Japanese lives, and there are tens of millions of Japanese alive today because of it.  And, would you approve if it had been a 100 plane raid dropping conventional and incendiary munitions as happened to many other cities (with equal or greater loss of life)?  Would you prefer that the war had dragged on and the Allies had to invade the Home Islands to end the war?  Low estimates were of 3 million to 5 million Japanese killed in an Allied invasion and occupation.  Some estimates were upwards of 15 million. Estimates of Allied deaths were in the 500,000 to 1,500,000 range. 

It is now popular with the revisionists, like you, to scream "Japan was ready to surrender!"  Bull.  Yes, some officials were urging that, but those in power were willing to fight to the last person.  Just look at the preparations made to fight off an Allied invasion - the stores of supplies and equipment in caves and tunnels, the training and conditioning of civilians to basically act as a human shield. 
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2010, 06:45:05 AM »
Banzai attack and Kamikaze tactics used by the Japanese were in the minds of U.S. planners along with the knowledge that Japan was building its own atomic bomb.
there's some truth to that - the Japanese defense of Iwo Jima was very tough, and that contributed toward the overly-high casualty estimates for Coronet/Olympic, and it hardened resolve. Note that on Iwo there weren't much in the way of banzai attacks, being that they weren't very effective against jarheads with semi-auto rifles; instead they used to silent night attacks, to deadlier effect.

Quote
Japanese submarine attacks and  fire balloon attacks along the west coast of the U.S. and Canada was clear evidence they were ready to use whatever means needed to defeat us.
Japanese sub warfare was surprisingly impotent; very little success for the effort expended, most of it wasted on operations against warships instead of commerce (and they were up against the 2nd best ASW force in the world, after the RN). 'fire balloon' attacks were meaningless gestures.
Quote
Seeing part of a freighter that had been torpedo by a Japanese submarine in the Crescent City harbor made clear to me just how close the enemy was.
http://www.militarymuseum.org/Emedio.html
Deceptive; very little effective IJN efforts near US shores.

Nuke might have been the right answer - we don't know, it was the road taken. There is an argument to be made that moving off the unconditional surrender demand, combined with continued sub/carrier ops/starvation of Japan, might have done the trick. We'll never know. And of course, the Russians might have a lot more of Japan than they do now, had we dallied.

Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2010, 07:07:07 AM »
Quote
Nuke might have been the right answer - we don't know, it was the road taken. There is an argument to be made that moving off the unconditional surrender demand, combined with continued sub/carrier ops/starvation of Japan, might have done the trick.

You have just said that you would have preferred that tens of millions starved to death.   Nice of you.
Your ob't & etc,
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Offline lgm270

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2010, 07:58:48 AM »
If you read Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow, you will get introduced to the idea who really won WW2... and it wasn't us.

BTW...Hiroshima, Japan in general and other countries are examples of countries that spend their wealth on their country and people. Detroit and other decaying cities in the US are examples of a country that spends its wealth and blood on other people's and elite's wars while practicing the "I got mine Jack" school of nationhood and culture.

..TM7
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Interesting post.  After WW2, Joseph Kennedy told a confidante that "we" lost the war [WW2].   Few understand what he meant,  but some do.  America's transformation from a republic to an empire is a continuation of the  loss we suffered in WW2.

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2010, 08:15:27 AM »
If you read Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow, you will get introduced to the idea who really won WW2... and it wasn't us.

BTW...Hiroshima, Japan in general and other countries are examples of countries that spend their wealth on their country and people. Detroit and other decaying cities in the US are examples of a country that spends its wealth and blood on other people's and elite's wars while practicing the "I got mine Jack" school of nationhood and culture.

..TM7
.

And why was that, do you think?  Quite possibly because the rest of the world made the US the world cop, and knew that they would be pretty safe under our umbrella.  So, the US not only spent billions to rebuild Germany and Japan, but also bore the bulk of the expense for security for those nations, and other nations, for decades.   I guess we could have stepped back and allowed Uncle Joe to move in and take over Japan and most of western Europe.
Your ob't & etc,
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2010, 08:46:45 AM »
I can't believe that people really think this is some major "thing" to be in awe over.  You take virtually ANY city that gets destroyed completely and rebuilt and it will typically look incredibly modern.  That's a given.  Look at cities in the southern US: the ones that are the biggest and brightest are usually the ones that were razed to ground by the Yankees.  It's like trimming dead limbs from a tree: it comes back stronger. 

With that in mind, is it any wonder that if you compare such a city to one of the US's most in-decline cities on the map that you'd see a comparison like this?  Not to mention that it's easy for a good photographer to select images to convey any point.  Take pictures that show one city at it's worst, and one at it's best.  I'd bet that if you really wanted, a good photographer could also go through Detroit taking a different set of photos at differently chosen sites, and convey a completely opposite aura (even though Detroit truly IS a cesspool at this point). 

If you compared Hiroshima instead with more modern cities in the US, say, San Fransisco, and you'd get a completely different view.  This comparison has little merit outside of those trying to rile up the natives.

Offline lgm270

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2010, 08:50:48 AM »
I can't believe that people really think this is some major "thing" to be in awe over.  You take virtually ANY city that gets destroyed completely and rebuilt and it will typically look incredibly modern.  That's a given.  Look at cities in the southern US: the ones that are the biggest and brightest are usually the ones that were razed to ground by the Yankees.  It's like trimming dead limbs from a tree: it comes back stronger. 


Thanks for writing that. I feel much better now. Can you tell us when Detroit is going to come back stronger?

Offline MGMorden

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2010, 08:59:56 AM »
Thanks for writing that. I feel much better now. Can you tell us when Detroit is going to come back stronger?

Detroit hasn't been destroyed by war, hence the above doesn't apply to it.  Economic destruction does NOT typically result in a city coming back stronger.  PHYSICAL destruction does.  Atlanta is one of the largest cities in the southeast.  Sherman burned it to the ground in the civil war.  Charleston, SC on the other hand, used to be one of the top 5 largest cities in the country way back in the day.  It survived the war nearly untouched.  It's still a nice tourist attraction - lots of old building and such.  Economically and population-wise though, it's WAY down on the list now.

You destroy a city, and it tends to come back stronger, because everything HAS to be rebuilt a new.  There are no old run-down buildings to reuse and renovate. 

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2010, 09:58:18 AM »
Quote
Nuke might have been the right answer - we don't know, it was the road taken. There is an argument to be made that moving off the unconditional surrender demand, combined with continued sub/carrier ops/starvation of Japan, might have done the trick.

You have just said that you would have preferred that tens of millions starved to death.   Nice of you.

No, subdjoe, I did not say that, or even imply it - though I can understand why you want to claim I did. It you were just a little smarter than the average rock, you'd have been better able to comprehend:

Quote
moving off the unconditional surrender demand, combined with continued sub/carrier ops/starvation of Japan, might have done the trick.

So, you're either not much smarter than that rock, or maybe a little confused, or... just disingenuous, to support a lame argument. I'm guess the latter. Which is it?
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2010, 10:00:29 AM »
Thanks for the Eisenhower quote TM.   I found it very revealing.   Do you know if this was penned during WWII or afterwards, perhaps during his Presidential years?  

Perhaps a commie?  Nah..... just a very wise general who had personally seen the worst destruction of countries at total war.
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Hiroshima and Detroit. Can you guess who won WW2?
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2010, 10:02:32 AM »
Gen'l (and President) Ike was a sharp guy... but no ideologue.

Some here would tag him a Muzzie or a Commie today.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.