Author Topic: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!  (Read 3718 times)

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Offline cwlongshot

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Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« on: November 04, 2010, 12:53:16 PM »
Hello guys,
 I have picked up a Buck Knife and having a problem identifying it. I THOUGHT it was a M120. Now that I have bought a 120 sheath and its too short, I'm not so sure...

 I know a bit about BUCK kinves markings. For instance before the late 60's "BUCK" was only marking on the blade. Then in the late '60's they added "USA" to the blades. Then in the early/mid 70's the model numbers as well.

Now my blade is marked BUCK then USA underneath that. No model number. Its got the standard Black handle with alum/silver pomel and laminated bolster. teh blade is 1." wide with a blood groove and a cutting edge of 7 3/8" and a OAL of 7 5/8"

Here is some pics:








WHAT DO I HAVE????

Thanks,
 CW
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Offline pastorp

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2010, 02:21:56 PM »
CW, been a few years since I carried a buck sheath knife but the model pictured is called a "general" I believe. Buck made one identical to it only with 6" blade and it was called the "special" back in the 60s. Don't know the model # though.

Hope that helps, Byron
Byron

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Offline grdad45

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2010, 10:34:44 AM »
Yep! That is a "General". I have one I carried for a year in Vietnam. Mine only has BUCK stamped near the hilt. I had my name engraved on the blade on the opposite side of the brand. My Grandson will receive it soon.

I have no idea where you could get a sheath for it, but if I see one, I'll let you know.
F&AM, 32, KCCH

Offline joeinwv

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2010, 10:38:38 AM »
Good looking knife - I have an early 70's 119. Can probably get a sheath direct from Buck.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2010, 12:39:05 PM »
I have seen a couple new sheaths on fleabay. But I would like either a correct sheath or a "std" sheath. Kinda like the one I bought only one that fits.  ::)

Thanks for the comments guys!!!

CW
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Offline luckydawg13

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2010, 05:34:53 AM »
Yep! That is a "General". I have one I carried for a year in Vietnam. Mine only has BUCK stamped near the hilt. I had my name engraved on the blade on the opposite side of the brand. My Grandson will receive it soon.


yep its a general the one i had broke sent it back they dont make it now sent me a 110 and a tacticl knive that was worth $200 bucks ;D
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2010, 12:18:32 PM »
  I found and bought a "custom" buck 120 sheath. I got it home and guess what... its a bit short!!! I can use it, but its about 1/4" too short and the snap seems to be made for a much fatter grip.  I think I'm gonna find a leather shop and have a snap put in. maybe even a custom sheath, if I can find a nice style and manufacturer.

I also bought a couple of its stable mates... a super clean 119. A old 102 and a nice early '90's 105. I already have a couple 103's and a 121. Just discovered a 124.. MAN THAT'S A BEAUTY!!!

CW
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Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2010, 02:23:45 AM »
It is a Buck 120 General.  The problem is that blade length has varied during production, depending on the year and location.  Same problem with the Buck 124 Frontiersman.  Usually from 1/8"-1/2".  Makes finding the correct sheath a real pain in the ass if the knife didn't come with one or needs a replacement.

I'd recommend sending it so a custom sheath maker so that they can get it fitted correctly.  Probably run between $30-$60 depending on what you want/

Offline ejpaul1

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2010, 02:59:03 AM »
That one says USA on it. I looked a few months back at a buck and it sais china. I am done with buck.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2010, 03:11:35 AM »
If you have one that is to long a goods leather shop can fit it. I have had several holsters cut down and the work was good.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2010, 12:38:00 PM »
That one says USA on it. I looked a few months back at a buck and it sais china. I am done with buck.

BUCK has recently completely re-done their manufacturing facility and moved production of many models back to the USA.  Not every model left US production, but many did get moved overseas.  Thanks to customer feedback, BUCK as seen the error of their ways and now only certain "value" models are made overseas.

Offline ejpaul1

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2010, 02:28:54 PM »
Good, I am trying to avoid china as much as is possible. For hunting knives, I am buying anza from here on out. No maore stainless either. I actually met mr davis in san diego, he's the owner and founder of anzza, he educated me. I believe he used to work at buck for many years. Anza knives are made from either files (de-tempered) or spring steel. They hold an edge way better than any stainless blade and are easier to sharpen. I'll never own another stainless blade again.

Offline Joel

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2010, 02:04:36 AM »
Spring steel is good for toughness, if you're in the use-my- knife- as -a- prybar crowd.  Most spring steel is 5160 and makes excellent hard use tools such as axes..not famous for holding an edge on knives, but it's adequate.  I started out making knives out of files, and still do once in a while.  Make great little knives, and they do hold a decent edge if they're re-tempered properly.  But they are not even CLOSE to the edge holding of one of the premium stainless steels like S-30V, CPM 154, BG-42 etc.  There's a whole slew of newer ones out recently.  Trouble with most folks who buy stainless, they buy one of those cheap a$$ Cases or some piece of junk from Smoky Mountain etc. and they're getting something like one of the 420 series(except 420 HC) which barely qualify as steel, let alone knife steel.  There's no such thing as "surgical stainless steel", it's a meaningless marketing  trick.  All the surgical means is that it's non-reactive to human flesh.....like some people are allergic to certain types of metal found in jewelry etc.  I grew up with carbon steel, and have watched, and have spent a lot of years making knives and watching the development  of modern steels(including some newer, really decent carbon steel) and the 1095 type steel found in files can't compare...but you need to spend the money to get a decent stainless blade.  As far as I"m concerned, based on the use of knives for the last 60 years, the development of knife steel is analogous to the development of hunting weapons; going from the club, to the bow, to the muzzleloader, then the black powder cartridge, to smokeless high velocity cartridges that reach out and whatever comes next(caseless cartridges etc).  All these things work, and people use them; but they learn to use them within their limitations. If you want to be part of the "carbon by God crowd" then try a knife made out of A-2 or one of the new CPM carbons on the market.  Only difference between them and stainless is they lack a lot of chrome, and why chrome get's people in an uproar is beyond me. And so on.

Offline jcn59

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2010, 02:22:00 PM »
The blade on my mid-70s Buck 120 measures 7.5".  The sheath measures 11 1/8" excluding the belt loop.   Both the sheath and the knife are marked 120.
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Offline ejpaul1

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2010, 08:22:18 PM »
OK, the million dollar question, why do they not make files, sawblades or drill bits out of any of those materials you mentioned? I aint trying to pick a fight or anything, I just dont buy it. I am not a materials engineer, I am a controls engineer though and I do understand materials. I have a few knives from case, buck, mulea and a few others and only the carbon steel blades hold and edge and are sturdy. Not to mention, I met chuck at anza knives and got the tour in san diego.

Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2010, 07:21:38 AM »
Stainless steels generally don't offer the toughness, flexibility, and the ability to resist impact and the other stresses that are put on tools like sawblades, drill bits, and files.  Most knives are not designed for cutting the hard materials that generally call for a file, saw, or drill bit.  So impact resistance, torque, and toughness are secondary considerations in knives.  Edge holding is what sells premium steel in knives, when you come down to it.

Also, carbon steels like W1, W2, L6, M2, M4, 1095 (what most of those types of tools are made from) are very cheap compared to the high line stainless steels  used in knife making.  They are also much simpler to harden and temper than stainless alloys.  Any of those type of tools made from steels like S30V or the CPM particle steels would cost a small fortune.  For example, I can get a bar of 1095 that is 3/16" thick x 1.5" wide and 18" long for $9.00.  A same sized bar of CMP S30V is $52.  So the basic material cost is almost 6x as much, and that's before you get into actual production costs, which I guess would also be close to 6x as much.  When you take all of that into consideration, it's easy to see why those tools are made from carbon steel.

I don't know about you, but when I go to Home Depot to get a Simmonds file, I'm happy to pay $8 for it's 1095 steel VS $75 or so for one in S30V.

Offline Joel

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2010, 09:14:52 AM »
I spent almost 45 minutes drafting a reply that  took up 3 long paragraphs which didn't post for some reason.
Basically though I said what you said(with a lot of history added).

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2010, 11:18:29 AM »
I spent almost 45 minutes drafting a reply that  took up 3 long paragraphs which didn't post for some reason.
Basically though I said what you said(with a lot of history added).

I HATE when that happens!!! LOL 

Do what I do, draft the long replies in WORD and copy paste, saves MUCH aggravation!!! LOL

CW
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Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2010, 04:44:56 AM »
Yep, I do the same thing.  I've had that happen too many times in the past.   ;D

I type a fabulous post, only to have IE stop working, or I drop the page by accident, or some other silly thing happens.

Offline ejpaul1

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2010, 06:38:33 PM »
I hear ya guys, but to this DAY my old K-bar outperforms even my boker knife. Aus, 440, any of those stainless blades cannot begin to hold an edge like that old K-bar. I'll try to do some research and might try a better steel.
I guess I should give the scenario. I end up being the field-dresser and butcher for family hunts, youth hunts, a few guided hunts and my own hunting. I had a day that I field dressed, skinned and quartered 6 deer. I bring three knives to these occasions and believe me, cutting fur and hide seems to be the toughest on blades. Every year the old K-bar outlasts ANY of the other knives. The land owner where we guide for whitetail has an old (very old) case that has a tendency to rust. Hard as hell but it lasts as long as the k-bar. He and I both have been sending knives off to have edges defined and even bought a sharpening system matched to the angle of the baldes for the mulea knives. Still dulls out after 2 field dressings. So, one of you guys that reccomended a premium alloy please tell me the best one in your opinion and I'll give it a shot. Believe me, field dressing and butchering one deer is one thing, 6 in a day or twelve over a weekend is an entirely different affair for a knife.

Offline Joel

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2010, 05:15:29 AM »
I've two old KaBars that go back 55 years.  On my 10th birthday my dad took me to our local sport goods and told me to pick out a hunting knife. Mine(of course) was a 5 inch skinner.  Caused a chuckle amongst the old boys.  My dad picked out an slim bladed "hunter" which was called the Woodsman.  Back then all them backward good ol boys ran around the woods with thin, sharp knives that cut.  Wouldn't last a minute these days:) The Woodsman had a blade less than 1/16" inch thick, and the skinner is around 3/32".  I rarely use the skinner, but still carry my Dad's on occasion.  Both blades were heavily chromed carbon steel of some sort and the woodsman is fully flat ground.  I used his the other day while skinning and butchering out my 6-point and 4 other bucks my party shot.  I also used one of my hunters in 154CM, and an old Western Cutlery W88 hunter that a friend had given me to refurbish and sharpen. In order of edge holding were (1) Mine (2) the Woodsman (3) the Western(which took a so-so edge to begin with and lost it right quickly.  The advantage of mine over the old KaBar didn't make itself apparent until the fourth deer; but it was obvious. Not that it turned into a dull board, it just took more effort to use.  All my friends gave up on factory knives and carry one of mine; two of them in 154CM,one in D-2 and one in S-30V.  Theirs and mine are all the same model I make(My #1), and the blades are 3/32" and are fully flat ground.

The interesting thing about knives is that quite often the blade/edge geometry often make more difference than the steel; assuming decent heat treats on all the blades. In this case my Model #1 and the Kabar, which are thin, flat ground, convex edged blades, lasted quite a while.  The Western was greater than 1/8" thick, and was ground thick all the way to the edge.  When I was researching the knife, out of curiosity, the article I read praised the "super sharp, tough edge".  Hmmmm.
The bottom line here is the super thin Kabar lasted a reasonably long time because it was ground like a scalpel which meant a lot less force was applied to the blade, which goes a long way to affecting edge holding.  It dulled before the Stainless/semi-stainless one did because those steels posses elements in them that contribute to edge holding. A simple(not all carbon steels are simple) steel composed of carbon and ferrite such as many of  the old tool steels such as 1056, 1075, 1095 etc(the last two digits indicate the amount of carbon in each steel, more or less), while often tough, simply don't contain the advantages of vanadium or tungsten or moly or chrome, all in reasonable large amounts, etc to give them the hardness/edge holding advantages of those steels. Carbon steels such as A-2 or the new CPM carbons do contain those elements...they simply have no need for large amounts of chrome for their designed purpose.  They hold excellent edges......they also cost an arm and a leg.  If I'm going to spend a fair amount on steel for a knife blade, then by all means throw in enough chrome to keep them from rusting. 

As far as what stainless to try; if you're talking about factory knives I can't recommend any.  Their might be some company out their that properly heat treats their stainless blades, and perhaps some one reading this might know of someone, but I don't.  But then again as a custom maker/user I wouldn't.  The only factory knives I buy are pocket knives, and none of the stainless ones by Queen, Spyderco, Case, Benchmade etc can hold an edge to my knives using the same steel.  However steels such as 154CM/Ats-34, BG-42, S-30v and D-2 semi-stainless are commonly used by factories and custom makers.
There's been a huge explosion in new "super steels" on the market in the last year and I do intend to try some of them, but I (and my customers) have never had complaints with the ones mentioned.  I do get long winded on my favorite subject.


Offline ejpaul1

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2010, 07:16:54 AM »
Joel, your a wealth of knowlege. Thats benificial to guy like me that just works in controls engineering and doesnt spend much time researching things. What you say makes sense. I am as we type (not while driving) headed up to the anza knife factory south of san diego to pick up three knives. Chuck swears to me that these will be the best ones I have used. I like chuck, he a character to say the least. Anyway, I then catch a plane to go hunting with my dad in kansas where we will immediatly get to try them out. EJ

Offline charles p

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2010, 11:11:02 AM »
Can't add much to this topic except to say that I have discovered a sharpener that exceeds anything I have tried before.  It is made in Germany by F.Dick.  It is called a hypersteel.  All you do is draw the blade though the spring loaded steels and it straightens the edge in a few strokes.  They are used in poultry plants.

I found the F.Dick hypersteel through friends who are commercial fish processors.  One used to sharpen his knives every day on a commercial electric sharpener with rotating stones.  It produced an excellent edge but the daily sharpening wore out blades in a few months.  The F.Dick hypersteel used daily makes using the electric sparpener almost unnecessary.  He goes a month at a time with only using the F.Dick steel set.

There are two different Hypersteel models.  The black model in my favorite.  The white model is very fine and will not easily retore a blade.

I carry a small Case pocket knife marked 059L.  With the hypersteel used each week, I'll put that little knife up against anyones knife.  It is too small for anything serious.  I use three knives when I clean and bone deer.  I use a Gerber for its skinning hook, then a Camilus (sp) (Remington) folder for everything else.  Once my deer have hung in the cooler a few days I bone them using a Chicago.

At the fish cleaning business, we use Dexter Russell.






Offline ejpaul1

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2010, 07:25:23 AM »
Alright, GOt the anza knives and had a chance to really put it to the test. Was with my dad and he got a doe this monring. Field dressed the doe and even used the knife to CUT the pubic bone with it even. Still sharp. Havent needed to touch it up yet. We will be headed out this evening again, we'll see how many it will get through before needing a touch up. I am thoroughly impressed!

Offline rzwieg

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Re: Looking for a BUCK Knife expert!!
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2010, 09:31:04 PM »
It's been said before. The General.

But the Pioneer is more useful for me...and more collectable I understand...mine is retired.

Large blades are a pain but more versitile.

That said small blades rule...most of the time.