Just when you thought he couldn't do something more stupid than before...

[Conan The Librarian]

OK, they are printing $600 billion to buy treasuries. Watch your dollar become worth less. See how the Chinese and the Germans are telling the US it is crazy for doing more of what did not work in the past, except now it's to such a degree that inflation will follow. Thanks Obama! You think the "health care" ripoff was bad, watch what happens next!

Oh, and by the way, don't bother even trying to find another job. You are screwed if you are out of work.

[scootrd]

ok ..they are printing 600billion because they need to make up for the 700 billion in tax cuts for the rich that are coming.

This is pretty easy economics folks ... if rich get tax cuts ...that's 700b less that will not be mailed to Washington in the form of taxes this year. So how do we make up for the shortfall? ..... we have to borrow it!!!!!

So all those complaining about we need to balance the budget ... well here is 700b more to add to it that will also need to be balanced on top of our already sky-high deficit.

And if you all think they are going to offset the newly borrowed 700b and lower the already huge deficit by cutting spending
in Washington.. I got a bridge I want to sell ya. There gonna shift the burden on us.

Also if you all honestly think that 700b the rich will save in taxes , (that will now have to be added to the skyrocketing deficit)  will magically be reinvested in the economy ..Well your past drinking the kool-aid.  This is just a bailout for the rich.

Not one job will be created with the taxes the rich will save and the burden of paying back the 600 - 700 billion will be shifted onto our backs in the form of taxes.  But hey that's OK cause the Chinese will buy up the treasury bonds and someday cash it all in ... finally stick a fork in our economies collapse and finally own America outright.

China the great world loan shark!!! But hey thats ok as well cause all our American corps will be working in Shanghai by then anyways with the help of the US Chamber of commerce supporting the outsourcing of all our American jobs.

Which reminds me I need to purchase Rosetta stone and start learning Chinese.

[Oldshooter]

Spoken like a real Democrat! 

If they quit spending like drunken sailors, (Apologies to drunken sailors) Then tax cuts for the "rich" wouldn't be so costly and Reagan proved that what you posted is Democratic nonsense!  Those rich are "US" and we PAY THE DARNED BILLS AROUND HERE.

If the people keep and spend their money things get better! ronald Reagan proved it, did it! Government spending to get the economy right is like trying to lift yourself up in a bucket by pulling up on the handle!

[billy_56081]

Oldshooter, you need to stop defaming Democracy by calling these folks democrats, when in reality these people are parasites. Nothing more than a louse in America.

[scootrd]

really .. ok loudmouths .. well less than 24 hours and DeMint is already throwing the tea party under the bus ...

Any of you two want to make a serious $10.00 bet the tea party house representatives cave and vote to raise the ceiling on the national debt?

Rand Paul says he would be willing to shut the Govt down before ever voting to raise.

I will bet both of you an additional 10.00 he will Personally cave and vote to raise the ceiling.

so thats 20.00 to both of ya ...Any takers???

put your money where your mouth is!!!!

Just because I don't go along with this new far right extremist RINO  program doesn't make me a democrat.  This is not the sensible mainstream fiscal conservative republican party I grew up with.  Look up Jeffersonian.

[scootrd]

Spoken like a real Democrat!  

If they quit spending like drunken sailors, (Apologies to drunken sailors) Then tax cuts for the "rich" wouldn't be so costly and Reagan proved that what you posted is Democratic nonsense!  Those rich are "US" and we PAY THE DARNED BILLS AROUND HERE.

If the people keep and spend their money things get better! ronald Reagan proved it, did it! Government spending to get the economy right is like trying to lift yourself up in a bucket by pulling up on the handle!

Get your facts straight (and I;m a big Reagan person). But truth is truth.

Those rich are not US (unless you are in the top 2%) of the wealthiest in America.

Additionally ,
Under Regan administration.
In order to cover new federal budget deficits, the United States borrowed heavily both domestically and abroad, raising the national debt from $700 billion to $3 trillion and the United States moved from being the world's largest international creditor to the world's largest debtor nation. Reagan described the new debt as the "greatest disappointment" of his presidency.

The number of Americans below the poverty level increased from 29.272 million in 1980 to 31.745 million in 1988.

And in less that 24 hours ... here we go again ... RINO's.

My bet still stands ... The RINO'S will corrupt the tea party reps and they will all cave and borrow more $$ and vote to raise the ceiling of debt.. it's already starting.

And this statement is illogical  - Then tax cuts for the "rich" wouldn't be so costly.

The tax cuts are going to add 700billion to the deficit. (you know the deficit we all voted them in to contain. ) so where do you think they are going to make up for 700 Billion less paid in taxes by the top 2 % ??  The RINO'S cant even answer where they make spending cuts.. they say they will but when each one is asked they can't cite one specific area where they will make spending cuts. Not one!!!

[LONGTOM]

I wish someone would explain why it is OK to tax a person that works hard and makes a lot of money (which is what everyone wants) more than someone who just gets by.
Just because someone makes $250,000.00 and someone else only makes $50,000.00 why should they have to pay more?
Don't pull that (they can better aford to bull) on me either!
You make a dollar, you get taxed on that dollar.
You make 250,000 of those dollars you should still get taxed the same percentage on each of them.
People say the rich don't pay their fair share, again, bull.
I don't recall the exact numbers but you all know the top 5-10% pay about 90% of all the taxes in the US.
Sounds like they pay way more than their fair share to me!
I say a straight tax on all earned income except savings, just like a national sales tax.
Tax the instrest but not the savings, you already paid tax on that when you made it.

example:
Let's say a 10% straight tax rate.
You make $10.00 you pay 10% = $1.00
You make $100,000 you pay 10% = $10,000
You make $1,000,000 you pay 10% = $100,000
Sounds fair to me!
I worked for my money just the same as you, just because I worked harder, or more and earned more why should I have to pay 30% or more?
Makes no sence!

I know back when things were good I had an exceptionl year and paid in a little over $161,000 income tax.
All I can say is, if the rich don't pay their fair share, THEN DAMN IT I JUST AIN'T RICH ENOUGH YET!!!





LONGTOM

[scootrd]

Longtom,
I don't disagree , just don't shove someone Else's 700 billion tax cut on me and my family, and that's exactly whats going to happen in this new proposed model. Personally , we should go back to just excise taxes, and cut out any form of tax on one's personal income.

You cannot extend the deficit ... without cutting spending or raise taxes on masses. and the RINO'S cannot name one area they can slash in govt budget to offset.. so only choice is borrow (Raise ceiling on national debt) and raise taxes on the rest of us to pay it back.

And Billy and Oldshooter my bet still stands.

[LONGTOM]

The really bad part is that someone will have to pay and why should it be the so called rich?
If everyone else is getting a tax break then shouldn't they get it to?
Fair enough to say you don't what that 700 billion on your shoulders but at the same time are you saying it is OK to put the tax break that everyone else gets on the shoulders of the rich with no benefit from it, not fair!



LONGTOM

[scootrd]

The really bad part is that someone will have to pay and why should it be the so called rich?
If everyone else is getting a tax break then shouldn't they get it to?
Fair enough to say you don't what that 700 billion on your shoulders but at the same time are you saying it is OK to put the tax break that everyone else gets on the shoulders of the rich with no benefit from it, not fair!



LONGTOM

no I'm saying stop borrowing. Get serious in Washington and pass serious Tax reform not playing these silly tax cut band-aid games that do nothing but raise the ceiling on our national debt , allows China to buy more of America , creates a national security risk to our economy, increases our deficit and ultimately forces all of us to pay more in taxes in the end.

I'm a proponant of your flat tax idea, or an excise tax model Thomas Jefferson held onto , or open to any other idea regarding true tax reform. stop this silly tax cut cra!@.  Tax Cut sounds good as a media sound bite or to the uninformed, but accomplishes nothing.

it's like a Visa -  we just charged another 700 billion... now how we gonna pay for it.
in less than 2 years our National debt is going to be higher than our GDP ... This means America will be bankrupt.
All China needs to do at that point is call in their marker. How do you say screwed in chinese.

Nuff said on my end  -  Billy , oldshooter , ya'll gonna take my bet? That ok ..I figured as much..all talk!!!

[LONGTOM]

There is plenty the government can cut in their spending
There are so many stupid programs that mean nothing to the well being of the US.
I am sure they would only be a drop in the bucket towards the massive debt we now owe, but at least it would be a start.
The health care prodram would go along way towards it.
Yes, health care needs to be fixed along with SS, welfair and a host of other things but spending is not the answere.
Get rid of the freeloaders and those that are not entitled to benefits would help.
Cut the size of government, while becoming more efficient.
The bigger the work force the more chance for graft and corruption.
I just don't understand why our government can't see these things.
Or do they and they just don't care as long as they get their share!



LONGTOM

[LONGTOM]

Agreed!!!
If we can figure it out, why can't they?



LONGTOM

[Oldshooter]

Careful scooter, you'll get an aneurysm!

Come down to Southeast Texas and I'll give you $20.00 if Rand Paul votes to raise the debt ceiling(in the next 2 years). I'd like to talk to you eye to eye!

Reagan raised the debt but had something to show for it! He rebuilt a big Navy, Slapped the Soviets into receivership and had the economy perking real nice! All from the ashes of the Jimma Cauta administration. Your obama spent more money than all other presidents combined and we ain't any better.

I'm for less spending by the Government. You can have your tax hikes, I'm not interested. If the people keep their money, all of em, things will get better, Reagan proved that!

[billy_56081]

scoot, after ya g doawn to Texas come to MN if Rand caves and I'll give ya 10 bucks too. No need to gamble, I'll just give it to you, a pretty coomon thing for us conservatives to do for a liberal.

And calm down coot, how were we to reply to you when we were sleeping. Us conservatives have jobs and we cannot stay up all night. Don't stoke on us.

[gypsyman]

HUH, What, who woke me up!! I'ld like a piece of that bet. Cut out billions in bailouts,healthcare that's aready on the rise,cut the Depts. of Education,energy,EPA, lifetime benifits for politicians. A trip to India, and Indonesia that might cost somewhere around a billion dollars.
Oh, and by the way TM, in another post, it was mentioned that Eisenhower had a program called operation wetback, that illegals were rounded up and sent back to Mexico. HMMM, seems that we've had this problem before Reagan was in office. gypsyman

[SHOOTALL]

They need the money to offset what GM is not paying in taxes for years to come. Consider that GM gets a tax break so it can pay the govt. back . So GM will look good and the Govt. can sell its shares for more .
 So much for laws and fair trade .
600 billion you worry about , chump change these days .

[SHOOTALL]

HUH, What, who woke me up!! I'ld like a piece of that bet. Cut out billions in bailouts,healthcare that's aready on the rise,cut the Depts. of Education,energy,EPA, lifetime benifits for politicians. A trip to India, and Indonesia that might cost somewhere around a billion dollars.
Oh, and by the way TM, in another post, it was mentioned that Eisenhower had a program called operation wetback, that illegals were rounded up and sent back to Mexico. HMMM, seems that we've had this problem before Reagan was in office. gypsyman

Seems old Black jack went down and took care of a little problem before that .

[magooch]

First of all, who is talking about a tax cut for the rich?  All I've heard is that the Republicans want to continue the tax rates as they are--for everyone.  The last time I checked, the rich are already paying at a much higher rate than everyone else.

To bring more revenue to the federal and even state governments, encourage rich Dumocrats--for that matter, all Dumocrats who think their taxes are too low, to send in whatever extra they feel good about.  In return they get an attaboy.

[scootrd]

Careful scooter, you'll get an aneurysm!

Come down to Southeast Texas and I'll give you $20.00 if Rand Paul votes to raise the debt ceiling(in the next 2 years). I'd like to talk to you eye to eye!

Where in Southeast Texas you at ? I have family in Quitman, Longview and Tyler .. Can definitely make the trip. Will look forward to the 20.00 when they cave and raise the ceiling on our National debt (should happen right around March) which is a good month cause they are going to March right along with the program like good little RINO's. Less than 24 hours and they already have started. So much for change.

This is no longer the Republican Party I knew. They have absolutely alienated me , there is no longer any room for a Fiscal conservative Moderate republican in the party anymore. either join the Far right extremist or get out. I got the New message plain and clear.

[jimster]

The "wealthy" did not create these problems, the far left wing did...so at what level of "servitude" should anyone with any money be beholden to pay for what the progressive idiots have done?

When you stop poiting at who "you think is welathy" and start pointing at those who create the problems, you'll get somewhere.

Why should anyone get to decide who is wealthy anyway? That always works out to all of us...and I see someone mentioned the "2 percent"....gee wizz...according to the irs that 2 percent already is paying through the nose.  You jack with them, you won't have any jobs ever. And you won't make your own job either. Matter of fact...if you gathered up all the wealth in this country from all the wealthy and all the businesses, and put them all in the soup line, you still would not have enough to pay off even the interest on what those fools spent.  Then of course there would be ZERO jobs as well. So back off the wealthy thing.

And for anyone who is upset about "the far right wing" taking over ...suck it up...that's what you get for letting the far left bury us. It would take some very radical right wing changes to correct the very radical left wing legislation already passed.

Reagan described the new debt as the "greatest disappointment" of his presidency.

And yes...The Dems were in control of congress then too!!  Matter of fact Dems have controlled congress for most of the last 60 years...all but about 7...and 5 of those the idiots reps reached across the aisle!


You got what you got because of not enough conservatism...not from too much of it.  They still are spending billions every day they don't have to...the answer is NOT cracking down on the wealthy to pay for this spending sickness. That's how you got here.

The idea is to beat the left down and hold them there...not to get along and meet them half way.

We all are trying to hang on to our money, the poor, the middle, and the wealthy...and you won't be able to pass any legislation to make us spend it...until we FEEL like spending it.  This is what people do when
government gets out of control. I'll spend my money when people stop talking about going after the wealthy. I'm sick of people picking out who will pay for the left wing mess and having it turn out to be me.

and 250,000 ain't crap in California or Boston and some other places....it's real dumb to pick out a number and try to tax it.  It's real dumb that we would have any person or persons decide that too.

there is no longer any room for a Fiscal conservative Moderate republican in the party anymore. either join the Far right extremist or get out. I got the New message plain and clear.

Then get out...cause in my book there is no such thing as too conservative...there is no such thing as right or left either, there is right or wrong...that's it!  So jump off the republican wagon...I did!  Because they were too MODERATE.
You will find when you are out and independent...there is only right or wrong as well...no in between!
I don't have to meet anyone half way...on anything. 

 
 

[SHOOTALL]

the guy who makes 1,445,000.00 pays 447,805.50
if the guy who paid 27% paid the same tax he would have paid 12360.00 But instead he paid 10800.00. or saved 1560.00 . Or to look at it another way tax on 1445000 at .27 would be a 57655 savings that could be in the market place creating jobs and not wasted on pork .
Flat HOG WASH

[jimster]

The bottom line is...I must be wealthy, beccause they have lifted thousands of dollars out of me this year, and it's not done yet. There is no way to legislate the idea we will tax hell out of the wealthy and not me...can't be done. All they can do is keep spending out of control and pit us all against each other. I don't want to look at someone who has more than me and make them pay a whole bunch more...I work for those people.

If they want someone to pay more taxes...how about government motors...I saw on the news last night they want to forgive them 49 billion in taxes.  Guess they picked them instead of Ford huh? 

Wonder why...

[scootrd]

And yes...The Dems were in control of congress then too!!  Matter of fact Dems have controlled congress for most of the last 60 years...all but about 7...and 5 of those the idiots reps reached across the aisle!

Lets not rewrite History , Dems were not in control  -  it was split REP had the senate , Dems had the house , and additionally a lot of those Dems were Reagan conservatives.

1981  -1983, Senate Dems 46 Rep 53 House 242 Dems 192 Rep
1983 - 1985 , Senate  Dems   46 Rep 54 House 269 Dems 166 REP
1985 - 1987,  Senate Dems 47 REP 53 House 253 Dems , 182 REP
1987 - 1989, Senate Dems 55, REP 45 house 258 Dems , 177 REP

So lets see  -  
Then: Republican President , Republican Senate , Democratic House . (With Reagan Democrates)
Now:  Democratic President, Democratic Senate , Republican House. (With far right Republicans).
...and How is this going to be any different?.

Then get out...cause in my book there is no such thing as too conservative...there is no such thing as right or left either, there is right or wrong...that's it!  So jump off the republican wagon...I did!  Because they were too MODERATE.

Reagan had once famously articulated an inclusive philosophy that welcomed all to his party and he was fond of saying  “somebody who agrees with you 80% of the time , is an 80% friend,  not a 20% enemy.”
In this new Rep Party there s no Room  for this kind of phlosophy anymore their position is Join us far right or get out. They have turned their back on their base.

....and here's the proof with this response !!! Like I said don't have to tell me twice, and don't worry I wont let the door hit me in the butt on the way out.

[joeinwv]

Just to get back to the original topic - the Federal Open Market Committee does not ask anyone for permission to make these types of moves. They decided that what needed to happen was for the Fed to buy $600bil in T-bonds on the open market. This will drive mortgage rates down, drives precious metals up and greatly increases the risks of devaluation of the dollar combined with rapid inflation.

I know it is fun to say "Obama is stupidly buying T-bonds" - but in reality, the Fed told him this was happening as a courtesy. The Pres, congress, etc - regardless of party - does not control the Fed or its actions.

Forget whining about tax rates and statist spending programs - if the average US citizen understood how the Fed operates and how fractional lending works - it would be time for a true tea party.

[scootrd]

HOG Wash indeed!   447,805.50  where's that number come from..?

What part of this do you not understand: However, are the richest Americans really being crushed by taxes? The Citizens for Tax Justice give us a resounding “No!” According to this document released in April 09, the 400 highest income Americans paid an effective rate of 17.2%.

and lets not forget

In 2008, the Government Accountability Office found that “two out of every three United States corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 through 2005. (exactly what our founding fathers didn't want)

Most folks don't realize our founding fathers believed in excise tax's only ..not personal income taxes.
They believed only tax the companies that made and sold products. Those companies were to recoup their excise tax at market price points when their product was sold to consumers. It wasn't until 1862, Abraham Lincoln signed The Revenue Act of 1862 into law. The tax was levied on personal incomes between $800 and $10,000 which were taxed at a 3% rate. Higher income was taxed at a 5% rate. This ensured that the tax was based on the person’s ability to pay.

The Revenue Act of 1862 underwent many changes after the war and was finally repealed in 1872. In 1895 the Supreme Court declared it to be unconstitutional because it was considered an illegal direct tax.

It wasnt until the 16th amendment passed in 1913 that the Govt was authorized by law to collect taxes on a persons income.  

[LONGTOM]

Let's see if I got this table straight!
If you made $253,000.00 and paid at a rate of 32.1% you paid $81,213.00 in income tax
If you made $1,445,000 and was taxed at a rate of 30.9% you paid $446,505.00 in income tax
Not sure where the figures that stated the person who made over $1 million was able to pay at a lessor rate.
I always understood that the more you made the higher the tax rate up to a max percentage.
Guess I was wrong? Maybe?

Forget the percentages, who paid the most taxes?
If I did my math right, the rich paid in $363,787.00 more income tax $$$ than the poorer person did.

Maybe if you figure other taxes in it changes.
At least that is what the table is suggesting, but I was refering to just the income tax of Americans.
I know the year I paid in over $161,000.00 income tax I was taxed at a higher rate than the 30.9% the table shows.
If $253,000.00 pays $81,213.00 taxes then you figure what I made to have to pay in over $161,000.00!!!
I don't recal the percentage exactly I paid at that year or on what amount but I grossed over $1,000,000.00, you do the math.
I also know that during those years of plenty I was spending a lot more on things I needed in the business and had three full time drivers.
The last two years the business has lost actual $$$ and I am spending a lot less for business items, oh and BTY, I no longer employ anyone except myself!!!
Like someone said, the rich supply the jobs, not the poor, and that is a fact!!!



LONGTOM

[billy_56081]

Where in Southeast Texas you at ? I have family in Quitman, Longview and Tyler .. Can definitely make the trip. Will look forward to the 20.00 when they cave and raise the ceiling on our National debt (should happen right around March) which is a good month cause they are going to March right along with the program like good little RINO's. Less than 24 hours and they already have started. So much for change.

This is no longer the Republican Party I knew. They have absolutely alienated me , there is no longer any room for a Fiscal conservative Moderate republican in the party anymore. either join the Far right extremist or get out. I got the New message plain and clear.

Hecck scoot, instead of giving ya 10 dollars I'll buy ya supper at the catfish kitchen out on Lake Fork. There is room for the fiscal conservative in the Republian party, but we don't want any liberals who diguise themselves with the term "moderate". MMMM the catfish kitchen is good eating.

[jimster]

Lets not rewrite History , Dems were not in control  -  it was split REP had the senate , Dems had the house , and additionally a lot of those Dems were Reagan conservatives.

1981  -1983, Senate Dems 46 Rep 53 House 242 Dems 192 Rep
1983 - 1985 , Senate  Dems   46 Rep 54 House 269 Dems 166 REP
1985 - 1987,  Senate Dems 47 REP 53 House 253 Dems , 182 REP
1987 - 1989, Senate Dems 55, REP 45 house 258 Dems , 177 REP

Rewrite history? You just posted the fact dems had control \ Like I said...

And what in the world is a Reagan democrat???  Are those like the ones that held their breath for a little while and then decided to vote with Polosi?
Matter of fact, probably some are the same ones...a lot of them look old.  Hey, wasn't Biden around back then too?  

So I guess that proves my point all the way around...Dems spent too much money, Reps reached across the aisle and helped...I left the reps a while a go.
Now you will too...I left them because they were left of me..your leaving them because they are not left enough for you.  Go figure!

They already done spent too much money in your view back in the Reagan days...now your complaining again because they say they want to put the brakes on?  Maybe they just don't know what you want.  You keep changing your mind. Just think, if you leave the republicans and they go back to reaching across the aisle and spending with the dems, you'll have to join back up again.    Might as well stay with them and wait it out.

[scootrd]

Lets not rewrite History , Dems were not in control  -  it was split REP had the senate , Dems had the house , and additionally a lot of those Dems were Reagan conservatives.

1981  -1983, Senate Dems 46 Rep 53 House 242 Dems 192 Rep
1983 - 1985 , Senate  Dems   46 Rep 54 House 269 Dems 166 REP
1985 - 1987,  Senate Dems 47 REP 53 House 253 Dems , 182 REP
1987 - 1989, Senate Dems 55, REP 45 house 258 Dems , 177 REP

Rewrite history? You just posted the fact dems had control \ Like I said...

And what in the world is a Reagan democrat???  Are those like the ones that held their breath for a little while and then decided to vote with Polosi?
Matter of fact, probably some are the same ones...a lot of them look old.  Hey, wasn't Biden around back then too? 

So I guess that proves my point all the way around...Dems spent too much money, Reps reached across the aisle and helped...I left the reps a while a go.
Now you will too...I left them because they were left of me..your leaving them because they are not left enough for you.  Go figure!

They already done spent too much money in your view back in the Reagan days...now your complaining again because they say they want to put the brakes on?  Maybe they just don't know what you want.  You keep changing your mind. Just think, if you leave the republicans and they go back to reaching across the aisle and spending with the dems, you'll have to join back up again.     Might as well stay with them and wait it out.

Jimster read again  -  it was split .. and the Rep controlled the senate and the presidency.

[LONGTOM]

OK, see if this helps clear things up.
I went back to 2003 and dug out my old tax records.
That year I paid $161,200.00 in total income taxes.
My top rate was 33%, my lowest rate was 27% and my average rate was 30 or 31%.

Maybe that helpe to explain it better.

PS, no accountant! Just my DAD!!!



LONGTOM