bullets

[wyohandi]

The bullet choice question got me thinking, we have these "DISCUSSIONS" all the time about premium
bullets around here. Heres my way of thinking (already put on helmet and armor)
For the lower 48 premium bullets aren't needed IF IF IF you wait for a good boadside shot, if you take
going away shots, hard quartering shots or other low percentage shots you need all the penetration
you can get, go premium. I've never needed to shoot so bad I couldn't wait for a good shot.
I believe standard cup and core bullets kill better on broadside shots, more damage to vitals. I have seen
deer and antelope shot with Barnes bullets run a longgg ways if no bone was hit.
I would have to say 75% or more of my bullets "fail" I ususally find them right under the hide when I'm
skinning out my animal     the SST that killed my daughters elk had a core seperation (oh my God)
the jacket was stuck in the offside hide, 30yds 2900FPS about as violent an impact as her bullet can get
thanks to that "failed" bullet were eating elk loin tonight.
Now if your shooting stuff that will eat you or stomp you into a little puddle, I want a bullet that goes all
the way through no matter what angle because you might need it, if the first shots not enough, and that
first shot is going to be breaking shoulders if i have the choice. Just my opinion, wish I made some of those $1-2 apiece bullets I'd be rich.

[mrbigtexan]

i agree

[Drilling Man]

Just my opinion, wish I made some of those $1-2 apiece bullets I'd be rich.

  I use to make/sell those $1-2 apice bullets, and i'm FAR from rich!

  DM

[nomosendero]

Just my opinion, wish I made some of those $1-2 apiece bullets I'd be rich.

  I use to make/sell those $1-2 apice bullets, and i'm FAR from rich!

  DM

Yea, I think there might be enough involved in making those bullets that would not qualify as a get rich scheme.

This looks like one of those "let's start an argument" threads to me, if you don't want to use a premium, then don't.

[280shooter]

I've used SSTs but I'm mostly a meat hunter so I found them a bit too destructive.  The Barnes TSX cut down on meat damage, in my experience. I still use some cup and core, but find myself leaning the other way. The cost of the bullet one of least expensive aspects of the hunt.

[Dave in WV]

The largest game I've hunted so far is whitetail deer. I load 100gr Rem corelokts and my son and I have never had a problem and all the shots have not been broadside. My load is about 2950fps and can't say what his clocks. The ranges here are normally close.

[BBF]

Moose in British Columbia are the biggest game I ever shot. None of them got awayor needed long tracking. Smallest cal was a 243 Win and biggest was a 444 Marlin. All of them with standard cup& core bullets.

[wyohandi]

Just my opinion, wish I made some of those $1-2 apiece bullets I'd be rich.

  I use to make/sell those $1-2 apice bullets, and i'm FAR from rich!

  DM

Which bullet did you make/sell?  I have been toying with the idea of turning some on my lathe not
for production just to play with, like a Barnes sabot for my muzzleloader. I know the time/volume ratio
is not practical but I need a good winter project.


And yes its been kinda slow on here I was just trying to stir the pot.

[Drilling Man]

  Bonded core, with copper jackets from type L quarter hard tubeing.  They were VERY good, but VERY hard and time consumeing to make.  I still have everything to make them, but i have NO desire to do so.

  DM

[wyohandi]

I did a quick muzzleloader bullet on my lathe, nothing special just playing around.
its on the inline ml forum, its a down and dirty solid. gotta get some copper or brass
maybe get some expansion.

[Coyote Hunter]

The bullet choice question got me thinking, we have these "DISCUSSIONS" all the time about premium
bullets around here. Heres my way of thinking (already put on helmet and armor)
For the lower 48 premium bullets aren't needed IF IF IF you wait for a good boadside shot, if you take
going away shots, hard quartering shots or other low percentage shots you need all the penetration
you can get, go premium. I've never needed to shoot so bad I couldn't wait for a good shot.

The problem I have with that is that you don’t always get the perfect presentation and even if you do, things can go wrong.  Moreover, with premium bullets I don’t feel I need to take a pass just because the presentation isn’t perfect (although I tend to wait for such).  My preference is for selected premium bullets as I hunt deer and elk in the same season.  North Fork, TTSX and MRX are at the top of my list, although I used an AccuBond to get my elk this year.  (Same 150g .30-06 load we used for antelope.)

I believe standard cup and core bullets kill better on broadside shots, more damage to vitals. I have seen
deer and antelope shot with Barnes bullets run a longgg ways if no bone was hit.
...

What kind of Barnes?  I refuse to use the XLC’s due to a bad experience and have not used the TSX due to lingering concerns.  On the other hand, the TTSX and MRX have resulted in 4 animals that went straight down and 1 that went maybe 25 yards.  One of the mule deer I shot had a hole from stem to stern, with exit.  No bullets recovered so far.  The only way they could consistently perform better is if the animals died of fright when I pointed the muzzle at them.

North Fork have also been consistent performers.  Excellent expansion, deep penetration and animals that are DRT.  Had one cow elk go about 20 yards, everything else has been straight down.

Don’t care what others use but I’ll stick with selected premiums.  (Note – not all “premium bullets” are created equal.  Some are crap in my book.)

[wyohandi]

I guess I should clarify, to me anything quartering away very much is a low percentage shot, maybe it's because I
hate field dressing gut shot animals. I wouldn't hesitate to take a quartering to me shot on an elk or deer with a
standard bullet with any caliber 270 or better.
I also think standard bullets should be kept under 2900-3000fps or they tend to be explosive, perfect for broadside
shots, but penetration does suffer. So I guess if your shooting an 06 size cartridge cup and core is fine, if you
got an Ultra Mag you should probably use premium, I guess I figured that was common knowledge.

The only Barnes I ever shot at an animal was the older x-bullet 25-06 115gr. I took one of those low percentage
shots on a nice whitetail buck, shot through him corner to corner, watched him run 200 yds into some brush.
Got to where he was bedded he still had his head up, sick but alive! Shot him again in the neck. Feild dressing
showed a 3/8" hole all the way through lungs,liver,guts,rear quarter and front shoulder, like a FMJ would do.
That one experience soured me on "premium" bullets. I know they have come along way, but my cheap Hornadys
and Sierras have always done their job so I will probably never switch. I personally have never seen a bullet that
"blew up" on a shoulder without killing, not even a 75gr HP at 3600FPS from a 243Win at under 100Yds on a
Mule deer buck.
If you shoot Premiums great, if you don't that's fine too, shoot what works for you. Thats what I do!

[swifty22]

wyohandi. That must have been a hell of a load to get a 75 HP going that fast in any 243 win.! I'm glad that I wasn't behind it! I ALWAYS use a bullet that makes a hole out the other side on game I'm going to eat, even grouse, no matter what I'm shooting. I'm off to hunt whitey's tommrow AM w/an 8x57 w/old 225 Speer RN's and a VERY healthy charge of H-414. Big blood trails to the buck from ANY angle!-Muddy   

[BBF]

Reading about bullets blowing up reminded me that this only happened once to me with a Rem Mohawk in 308 using the then new Sabre Tip( Canadian) 150 gr bullet on a young bull moose at about 60 yards. The bullet blew a huge hole in the side deep enough to open the chest cavity. The bull reared up so high he toppled over backwards into water and probably drowned before he bled out.
When I got home I pulled all of the bullets and replaced them with Speer Mag Points.

[wyohandi]

wyohandi. That must have been a hell of a load to get a 75 HP going that fast in any 243 win.! I'm glad that I wasn't behind it!   

Max load of Varget by the book, my 243 has a 28" barrel gives a few FPS

[swifty22]

Wyohandi, My Hodgdon's manual (2008) gives a Speer 70 gr HP 3,574 FPS w/40.5 gr Varget w/WW/WW LR @ 50,100# CUP, 24" bbl. (80 gr. Sierra BTSP @ 3,355 w/38.5 gr. Varget same case/primer/bbl. @50,300# CUP) split the difference!  A hell of a long way from a 75gr HP @ 3,700, even in a/28" bbl. PLEASE BE CAREFUL!-Muddy

[wyohandi]

Well I said 3600Fps, my 2008 Hodgdons annual manual says 38.5 grs for a 75grHP and 3408Fps w/24" barrel.
Maybe my chronograph is off, but i doubt it. Same velocity every time I checked for the last 2yrs.
Could be the Altitude here, the temp, the humidity, alignment of the planets, or the fact that every gun is
it's own beast, who knows?
And 200Fps isn't a Hell of a long ways if you believe the 30-50 FPS per inch rule has any truth to it.

And a 243 with a 75gr HP isn't my idea of a deer rifle, I was going to shoot some long range targets when
we ran into each other.