309 JDJ Case Forming Problem!

[Minnesota1]

I just can't seem to form the cases from the 444 Marlin Brass that I have.  As you can see in the picture I run it through the 309 FL Sizer die and it crushes the cases.  What am I doing wrong?  Any help or hints would be appreciated.  I have a 358 JDJ and run it through the sizer die for it and have no problems.  I understand that it is reducing the diameter even more going to the 308 diameter but I must be doing something wrong.

Thanks.

Bob

[Gswag]

From what I can tell, the best way to start that case is run the 444 through a 308 Winchester die to start the shoulder and allow the case to chamber in the 309 chamber.  Then shoot your fireforming load and from that point on, use the 309 sizing dies.  

[Minnesota1]

So are you saying to first run the 444 case through a 308 FL sizer or just enough to neck it?  Or run a necking die through it first then the 309 FL die set?

Thanks.

[Hopalong7]

      Run your .444Marlin cases in a FL 308Win sizing die, then fire form.  Somewhere in my collection of junk I've got some cases identical to the ones you pictured that I tried to size with 309die.  The sharp shoulder on the 309 is just a little to much to accomplish in one step.  The 308 has a much more tapered shoulder that is easier to form.  It's been awhile since I've formed any new brass and my failing memory doesn't recall have far into the die you have to go, but's it's just enough to chamber the cartridge.  Of course, a good sizing lube is a must.  Good Luck!
Walt

[Minnesota1]

So on the 308 sizing die I only put the 444 Marlin case in far enough for start forming the mouth where I can chamber it, correct?  I was told you don't have to fire form your 309 cases.  Do you then after forming the diameter of it then run it through the 309 die or just get it formed enough to hold securely the 308 diameter bullet and then shoot it out of your gun to blow it out?  Do you reduce your load out quiet a bit to fire form?  It's been awhile since I fire formed cases.  My load now is 52 gr. of 4350.  What load would you use in this then?  Maybe 45 grains? 

Thanks.

[Gswag]

Back off 10% to fireform the 309.  Don't use the 309 die until after you have fireformed the cases.  The 308 die is used to neck it down and start the shoulder just enough that you can chamber the round for fireforming.  Once fireformed, you don't need to use the 308 die ever again until you are forming new cases for the 309 from the 444.  I ordered a bunch of 375 JDJ brass from SSK recently and plan to try some of those for 309.  I was thinking that they would be even easier to go into the 308 die as they already have a shoulder and have been made to take the 375 already.  Of course they will not be stamped correctly but neither are the 444 brass   Plus, they are actually cheaper to buy from SSK than they are from midway.  I think 100 of the hornady brass was $65.  Hornady 444 brass was $43/50 so I figured correctly stamped brass for the 375 also from Hornady for about $20 less per hundred was a good deal, the $65 is about the same price as the cheaper Remington brass per hundred.  So I bought plenty extra to try and use in the 309.  It may be no better to form with but it is cheaper   GS

[yorketransport]

Have you tried running them into the 358 JDJ die first, then into the 309 die? Going from .429 down to .308 it a pretty big jump. Maybe it would work better if used the 358 die to reduce the amount of work that you're doing in one operation.

Andrew

[Gswag]

That could work and then go to the 308, sort of the same thought process I had with using the already formed 375 brass.  I'm going to try it sometime this week so we'll see how it works

[Hopalong7]

     Gswag  +1           I've never had any problem, that I can remember anyway, running .444Rem brass in the 308 die and then fireforming at -10%, as was stated. Remington brass is all I've ever used.  Fire forming is a must no matter what die you use regardless of what you've been told.  I will say that fireforming loads are not just "throw aways".  Good for gettin' the scope "close", practice, plinking, and for that matter I wouldn't be one bit afraid to hunt with'em if I was sighted in correctly.
Walt

[Hopalong7]

      BTW That fire forming load is 10% off the starting load of IMR4350, at least mine is.

[Ken ONeill]

Guys, there's no need to re-invent the wheel here. Buy or borrow a .308 Win. FL sizing die. Lube the cases well. Neck the .444 Marlin brass down a bit at a time until it will JUST comfortably fit in the .309 JDJ chamber. Clean the case. Prime it and load it. Shoot it. FL size etc. from then on with the .309 JDJ dies. Lots of people have been doing this for 20+ years. You should lose no more than about 1 case per 100 if you lube properly.
Minnesota1 : 52 gr. of 4350 with what bullet and primer? Sounds a bit hot. 49-49.5-50 gr. of 4350 with a 165 & FEd. 210's is about max. WORK UP to this as Max.! Not much fireforming involved with the .309. The advice to start 10% low is always good, working up gradually, in 1/2 gr. increments, a couple rounds at a time.

[Alaska Dave]

I just run new 444 brass through the 338JDJ dies and then run them through the 309 dies. Make sure you lube the inside of the necks also.

[Jay HHI6818]

+1 to Ken's post. It's easy to make 309 brass. If the 444 mouths have any dings or not round run them into a 44 mag die just to sqaure up the mouth.

Guys, there's no need to re-invent the wheel here. Buy or borrow a .308 Win. FL sizing die. Lube the cases well. Neck the .444 Marlin brass down a bit at a time until it will JUST comfortably fit in the .309 JDJ chamber. Clean the case. Prime it and load it. Shoot it. FL size etc. from then on with the .309 JDJ dies. Lots of people have been doing this for 20+ years. You should lose no more than about 1 case per 100 if you lube properly.