Big game management (bear, elk, and especially deer) in Pa.

[while99]

This is a long presentation, over an hour.  Get yourself a favorite beverage, some snacks, and sit back and listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_XWCtL3EEc

 

[DDZ]

Very interesting, thanks for posting, while99.
This confirms we have been lied to. As I have always suspected the PGC does not have the Pa. sportsman's best interest  in mind when laws are made. The deer management program was designed as a forest management tool which uses manipulation of the deer herd to accomplish DCNR's goal, which was designed by the Nature Conservancy and Audubon. It was not based on science, but the personal agenda of a handful of people.
I encourage those of you that think the deer management program was produced to generate a healthier deer herd and bigger bucks for you the sportsman, to watch these eight segments by John Eveland. 
Hunting in Pa is dieing. If you don't believe this just look at the license sales since this scam was started.

[while99]

DDZ, thanks for your response.  I've long suspected that something was awry but I had no scientific data to support those suspicions. 

I supported, and still support, the antler point restrictions that the Game Commissioin has imposed.  But I think they've allowed far too many doe deer to be shot and haven't done enough to eliminate predation by coyotes.

This message needs to get out to all sportsmen, not just in Pennsylvania, because the same groups that manipulated the Pa. deer herd, can damage the herds in other states as well.

[DDZ]

I'm not disagreeing that antler restrictions have worked in some areas, but the area I live and hunt in they have not worked. Meaning, smaller yearling bucks than we have ever seen, with little tiny antlers. Also the last couple of years we have noticed that the deer born in the spring are not reaching the size they used to by this time of year. They remind me of the little puny yearlings I see in the mountains of WV. Also since the antler restrictions there has not been any bucks taken in this area that are bigger than bucks we would get during the years before antler restrictions.
I have hunted and lived in the same area for the last forty years and I know what kind of bucks were taken pre antler restrictions and what kind of bucks have been taken after antler restrictions were implemented. Antler restrictions in this area have not worked, in fact the opposite intent is happening. 
   There was an article in, I believe an NRA magazine not long ago about the antler restrictions in Pa, and how the GC is going about it wrong. The writer also stated how some areas needed to be looked at and the restrictions changed, because they plain were not working.
I still think the GC implemented Antler restrictions in Pa to bring in more hunters from out of state, thinking bigger bucks mean more hunters. Which means more cash flow for the GC. The GC tells us it was just to increase the health of the herd. I think this is just a lie.
In one of the video segments if you remember John stated that studies done before the GC started making all these changes to what they say would better the deer herds health. The deer herd was already in very good health because of the number of fawns being born per doe. Its the way they gauge the health of a deer herd.
Any more, I trust the GC about as much as our Government, and that is not very much.   

[manofthe45]

A USP flunky and one they so love to quote.  Only part i agree with is the opening. "over a decade of contention".  Someone please tell me how the PGC pulled the wool over everyones eyes when they stated from the getgo that they were gonna drasticly reduce the deer population.  Also the stated purpose of AR is to balance the deer herd and protect more yearling bucks. 

I just finished a week long inventory of my families possessions due to a fire and loss of all belongings.  Being a meat hunter with very little care about antler size the amount of spike to small 6 point basket racks amazed me that were just boxed up.  Can think of one year that I didn't harvest a buck but had forgotten how many little bucks I've shot.  My goal is to harvest a buck on public land every year and while Ar hasn't prevented that is had made it harder or should I say a challenge which is the point afterall.

I have no problem with those that wear out their boots SCOUTING and hunting when they comment on fewer deer.  Its the whining and crying of weekend warriors that sit 100 yards into the woods for 3 hours opening day and spend the next 364 days crying on the net and at the local bar that are falling on bored ears

[DDZ]

Oooh.. I see, John Eveland was only telling the truth in the first part of the video. He made the rest of it up. What was I thinking!
The GC didn't pull the wool over any ones eyes. Yes, they said they were going to reduce the deer herd. It was the rest of it, and the reason for it that was a lie.

So the hunters that don't have endless hours to scout and hunt should just shut their mouth? I think they pay the same cost for a license that you do. 

[manofthe45]

Endless hours God wouldn't that be nice.  I work 6 days a week, have 2 younger kids and two large extended families.(ie alot of reunions, and birthday parties.  Most in the fall Not much to do in the winter around here if you know what i mean)  I am lucky some weeks to get an hour to scout especially at the end of the summer when its most important.  Course during hunting season I am always scouting no matter what the species after and when I say scouting I mean on my feet in the woods where I can hunt not my butt in a truck seat with a spotlight over fields I will never get permission to hunt.

The days of sitting on great granddads stump and getting your deer by 9 am opening day are over because:
1: Yes less deer.  That was the plan.  Clearly explained at the beginning of HR.  "We are going to greatly reduce the deer herd"  sorry can't get much plainer than that
2: Deer hunting has changed with the passing of time.  The large drives with camps having to split into two groups to stay under roster are over.  Actually had a guy scream at me last year for still hunting a laurel patch maybe 200 yards from him last year.  It's the day of the tree stand now and if deer are pushed you aren't going to see the numbers of days gone by.  I guess this is the GC fault too.  

I will give you that a very minute number of those claiming no time to change their hunting practices really can't sqeeze one more minute from their schedule, but most guys could find an hour or two a week to get off the bar stool after work and scout or hunt instead of blaming it soley on the PGC.

[av-doctor]

Thank you Manofthe45, you speak the truth brother!

The same people who are whining now are the same ones a few years ago who bought doe tags,bonus tags,etc and gladly went out and shot 3 or 4 or more deer and bragged how fast they filled their tags.

Fast forward a couple of years and the deer population has dropped well no $$$t !!  What did you think would happen?

[mspaci]

I have 2 good friends that went to PA annually with thier families to hunt at the cabins they own on the state forest for deer. They no longer do it or buy the license because they haveny seen any deer in years there & the cabins are now for sale. Mike

[av-doctor]

I'm sorry your friends no longer enjoy time in Penn's Woods, but hunting hasn't changed that much you just need to walk a little farther and stay out a little longer.The days of shooting deer versus hunting deer are behind us.I to know many people who no longer hunt, for that i'm sorry. I'm sorry they can't enjoy the outdoors for what they are.

[mspaci]

these guys are hard core, they walk the extra mile, there are no deer to hunt from what they say.

[manofthe45]

mspaci:

For the loss of hardcore hunters I am saddened, but do you relise that for every Hunter with honest complaints/lost there are 100's that walk in less than 100 yards for a couple hours a year and rant to every ear that will listen(even a few that wish they couldn't hear it) that its all the PGC's fault.  I have never seen or even heard of a single time that a wco or commissioner put a gun to the head of a hunter and made them fill a tag.

The fact is the PGC had a goal and put the tags into effect to get there.  They were honest in the goal and their intentions from the get go.  Where were the naysayers when the goals were discussed and voted on.  They were buying those extra tags and filling them.  they welcomed the change with open arms.  Now that the goals are met and the consequences of OUR own actions are reality.  People want to cry foul and claim they were tricked or lied to which is the biggest falsehood in PA hunting at the moment.

The answer to unatifactory numbers lies with the hunters of PA not the commissioners.  If you are not happy with the numbers in your area than don't fill your doe tag because not buying a tag won't help someone else will.  Want bigger bucks don't blast the first barely legal deer you see

Anyway i am going to bed I got ducks to shoot tomorrow and bear to hunt monday and tuesday  than probably more ducks but maybe small game or coyotes or fox, bobcat opens soon.  See I love to hunt and not a job running 6 mandatory days a week, or family, or even a total loss house fire is gonna stop me from what i love to do for ever minute I have availible to do it.  I'll rejoin the complainers in Feb at the bar.  I am sure they will still be on their assigned seats just like always

[mspaci]

The hunters should have stood up in the beginning & said no, its too bad there wasnt a happy medium. I see it to a lesser extent here in ny as well, not the numbers we had but still enough to motivate. O often wonder if the insurance companies wee partly to blame as well for the numbers being taken to lower levels. Its ok, I have been doing much more small game hunting for rabbits with my beagles than anything else.  Way more fun than big game. Mike

[Bingo]

   Where I hunt the herd is on the rebound. What devistated our herd was not the GC but EHD. 3 years ago we found 25 dead deer on less than 100 achers. It left us to wonder how many we didn't find. This year, although the numbers are not what they were 4 or 5 years ago, we are seeing more deer. Bucks and does. We try to harvest a few does for the freezer and this year I have passed on 3 small 8 points. They will look good next year. I've seen some really nice bucks in the rutt and I am willing to wait for them or take a doe for the table.
   BTW I am a meat hunter. I took a BIG 10 point 7 years ago and have passed on all the "legal bucks" I have had a shot at since. I am holding out for one that will rival the wall hanger I already have and let the kids take the small bucks. Our herd looks good and if properly managed, other herds would improve too. Aww heck.... That's asking for to much. Joe Public is a selfish kerr. Blame him!

[dougell]

Mr. Eveland never worked for the PGC.He certainly never wrote the first elk or bear management plan for this state.He's a conspiracy theorist with no credability.

[bubba15301]

hunted every day of the season did not see 1 deer.  herd reduction has really worked in my area