Question for the muslim sympathizers.

[powderman]

If the godless nations would quit murdering innocents, sawing peoples heads off, attacking soft targets all over the world, attacking Israel, and laid down their arms, the whole world would be at peace. If Israel laid down her arms their godless neighbors would slaughter them all, every man, woman, and child, then renew their attacks on the world.



 I ask again. True??? Or false??? Anybody here may feel free to answer. POWDERMAN.  

[wreckhog]

You are comparing a country to a religion. See a problem with that?

[powderman]

wreck. No, I'm not. You know exactly what I meant. How bout if I changed muslims to godless nations, would that help, I'll change it??? There it is, whats your answer??? POWDERMAN. 

[BBF]

                              Yawn !!

[yellowtail3]

wreck. No, I'm not. You know exactly what I meant. How bout if I changed muslims to godless nations, would that help, I'll change it??? There it is, whats your answer??? POWDERMAN. 

Do Japan, China, Mongolia, France and Israel count as godless? Some, or all?

[powderman]

yellow. As you know I didn't mean them, I meant the muslim nations. The sympathizers and pantywetters here seem to be dodging the question. I wonder why??? Could it be because they know I'm right? You bet it is. POWDERMAN. 

[yellowtail3]

yellow. As you know I didn't mean them, I meant the muslim nations. The sympathizers and pantywetters here seem to be dodging the question. I wonder why??? Could it be because they know I'm right? You bet it is. POWDERMAN. 

Well, I'm just wonder'... is Japan godless?

[powderman]

yellow. Another refusal to answer my question. So far tm replied with 1/2 a page of garbage on another thread without answering the question, wreck made a post, again without answering, now you have made 2 posts without answering. What I said is the truth, now answer the question. POWDERMAN. 

[scootrd]

I think if you all are going to have this debate , you must first decide what  defines a "Muslim" Godless Nation,
then you need to decide what nations by populous will be your cut off,

For example :

Tunisia has a population of 10,216,000 Muslims, they comprise 99.5% of the population Are they a godless nation ?  Has Tunisian Muslims attacked anyone ?

Indonesia has a population if 202,867,000 Muslims, they comprise 88.2% of the population , Are they a godless nation?  Has Indonesia Muslims attacked anyone ?

Maldives - 304,000 Muslims but are also 98.4% of the total countries population..  Are they a godless nation in this debate? Have Maldive Muslims attacked anyone?

Senegal  - 12,028,000 Muslims 96 % of the total population , attacked anyone ?

Mali - 12,040,000 Muslims 92 % of the total population , attacked anyone ?

Malaysia 16,581,000   Muslims 60 % of the total population , attacked anyone ?

or are you going to debate just radical sects embedded in just specific countries?

[powderman]

HEH. Another non answer. Why is it so hard for libs to answer a simple question??? All of you know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not surprised that it's a question the libs can't answer without getting egg on their face because they all know I spoke the truth. POWDERMAN.

[scootrd]

HEH. Another non answer. Why is it so hard for libs to answer a simple question??? All of you know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not surprised that it's a question the libs can't answer without getting egg on their face because they all know I spoke the truth. POWDERMAN.

yellow. As you know I didn't mean them, I meant the muslim nations.

Whoa NOW , I'm not involved in this one , Just ran across this thread and asked what Nations specifically you are addressing as considered Godless ?


their are approx 1.5 billion Muslims , making up 25% of the world population.
Well over 50 or so countries in the world are predominantly Muslim.
only About 20% of Muslims live in Arab countries.

There are more Muslims in Germany than in Lebanon,  and more in China than in Syria.

so what countries specifically are being referenced as Godless nations? All 50 or so countries where Muslims are predominant ?

I think it's a valid question. I will now deject myself from this discussion.

 - Peace all

[powderman]

SCOOTRD. I appologize Sir, I thought you were sidestepping like the others have been. I was referring to the rogue muslim countries surrounding Israel. As to your question, I consider islam a false religion, and mohamed a false prophet, therefore I say the predominately muslim nations are Godless. I understand your point and it's plain the libs here are not going to answer, because they know I spoke the truth. POWDERMAN. 

[Spirithawk]

I look at it like this, a terrorist is just that, a terrorist! It don't matter one whit what religion they profess, what country they are from, or what their cause. Terrorist are called "terrorists" because they often make war on inocent civilians to demoralise a country's backing of it's own military and government. They kill those unable to fight back. They kill in sickening ways to spread terror. If we are going to make war on terrorist then we should quit playing games, worrying about who's feelings we might offend, and make war on the very countries that harbor them! We should use the same attitude I did as a kid with bullies. Hit me and you can exspect to get hit back. Only twice as hard! Not rocket science. Not predjudice againt nation, race nor religion. Just the simple reality of survival in a world gone to hell. One's race or religion is not an excuse, nor a free pass, to commit terrorist acts! No matter how often and loudly they cry and try to make it seem so! Can't see  the reason and truth in that then try taking off your blinders and step into the real world.

[subdjoe]

In all the nations you cite here, yes, Muslims have attacked Christians for daring to preach the Gospel.  Christians have been beaten, some killed. And church buildings have been damaged or destroyed.  In the case of Tunisia, not within the past year or two, but within the past ten.  All the others within the past five.  You would need to dig into the news letters of some of the Eastern Orthodox patriarchates to find the references to the incidents.

I think if you all are going to have this debate , you must first decide what  defines a "Muslim" Godless Nation,
then you need to decide what nations by populous will be your cut off,

For example :

Tunisia has a population of 10,216,000 Muslims, they comprise 99.5% of the population Are they a godless nation ?  Has Tunisian Muslims attacked anyone ?

Indonesia has a population if 202,867,000 Muslims, they comprise 88.2% of the population , Are they a godless nation?  Has Indonesia Muslims attacked anyone ?

Maldives - 304,000 Muslims but are also 98.4% of the total countries population..  Are they a godless nation in this debate? Have Maldive Muslims attacked anyone?

Senegal  - 12,028,000 Muslims 96 % of the total population , attacked anyone ?

Mali - 12,040,000 Muslims 92 % of the total population , attacked anyone ?

Malaysia 16,581,000   Muslims 60 % of the total population , attacked anyone ?

or are you going to debate just radical sects embedded in just specific countries?

[no guns here]

Yeah... right...

[powderman]

There aren't any muslim sympathizers here. THERE IS TRUTH, DECENCY, AND AMERICAN WAY SYMPATHIZERS...!!


..TM7
.

tm. So go ahead then, answer my question. Right, or wrong??? I see your converts still won't answer, they fear they truth, just like you. POWDERMAN. 

[SwampThing762]

Ummm....yes, to answer the question, the desert nations of the Islamic Empire would attack Israel.   If you doubt their readiness, read the histories of the Crusades, and histories of the Six Days War.

ST762

[scootrd]

I have a history question I never fully understood  -  

Why in the first Crusade did the Jews and Muslims fight together to defend Jerusalem from the Franks. Why did the Franks who were finally successful in breaching the walls proceed to massacre the remaining Jewish and Muslim civilians?

I would have thought the Jews would have welcomed the Crusaders (lifting them from oppressed Muslim rule or something) but Historical written reports of the time tell us differently, Jews and Muslims fought side by side to defend Jerusalem from the invading crusaders.

I have always found this part of history confusing.

In the Third Crusade (which is the one everyone is most familiar with ) Saladin conquered Jerusalem and after the Christians surrendered the city he spared the civilians and left the churches and shrines untouched.  I find this confusing as well. If Saladin was so against the Christians why did he spare their churches and population in the city?

[SHOOTALL]

needed slaves !

[powderman]

Well, it's 1 non answer from wreck, 2 non answers each from yellow and tm, and still nothing from guzzi. Fess up boys, man up, tell the truth for a change. I spoke the truth, admit it. POWDERMAN. 

[guzzijohn]

Powderman,
The question you pose is a situation that never will be so the the answer is mute.
GuzziJohn

[billy_56081]

I have a history question I never fully understood  - 

Why in the first Crusade did the Jews and Muslims fight together to defend Jerusalem from the Franks. Why did the Franks who were finally successful in breaching the walls proceed to massacre the remaining Jewish and Muslim civilians?

Bloodlust, scoot it is hard to stop killing once you start. To some killing is an enjoyable and exciting experience.

[Dixie Dude]

The Byzantines asked Rome for help fighting the Muslims in the east.  When the Crusaders went to Byzantium (modern Istanbul Turkey) they saw all the gold topped buildings and the wealth they had and sacked Byzantium.  Most Crusaders were poor compared to the east.  Uneducated and misguided people from the middle ages. 

[scootrd]

needed slaves !

Shootall , I honestly don't know , maybe slaves (if anyone else can provide additional info), But it was my understanding he sent them all packing so not sure about the slave part.  I do know when Gengis Khan was building his empire , he cared little about religion etc.. and kept all cities that bowed to him in tact, Those that did not bend to his will he wiped out of existence.  I believe Genghis was more concerned about wealth accumulation and less about what goat peoples worshiped etc and long as dollars kept flowing to build his empire and support his armies.  Perhaps Saladin was more like Genghis Khan.  Anyone have any insight?

Also I still don't understand why the Jews fought along side the Muslims against the crusaders.

[MGMorden]

The Byzantines asked Rome for help fighting the Muslims in the east.  When the Crusaders went to Byzantium (modern Istanbul Turkey) they saw all the gold topped buildings and the wealth they had and sacked Byzantium.  Most Crusaders were poor compared to the east.  Uneducated and misguided people from the middle ages. 

Minor note (for those who got a little confused reading this, as I did): Byzantium was indeed the former name of the city, but by the time of the crusades the city had been called Constantinople for almost 900 years by the time of the Fourth Crusade (the one in which Constantinople was sacked - also which occurred after the previously discussed events of the Third Crusade.  Saladin was dead by the this time for example) .  It is on the site of modern Istanbul.

[Spirithawk]

needed slaves !

Shootall , I honestly don't know , maybe slaves (if anyone else can provide additional info), But it was my understanding he sent them all packing so not sure about the slave part.  I do know when Gengis Khan was building his empire , he cared little about religion etc.. and kept all cities that bowed to him in tact, Thise that did not bend to his will he wiped out of existance.  I believe Genghis was more concerned about wealth accumulation and less about what goat peoples worshiped etc and long as dollars kept flowing to build his empire and support his armies.  

Also I still don't understand why the Jews fought along side the Muslims against the crusaders.

Hard to find logic where none exists.

[MGMorden]

Shootall , I honestly don't know , maybe slaves (if anyone else can provide additional info), But it was my understanding he sent them all packing so not sure about the slave part.

Also I still don't understand why the Jews fought along side the Muslims.

From my recollection, most of the conquered military forces were sold into slavery, whilst the non-military members (ie, their families and other people within the city) were as you say, "sent packing".  

. . . . After checking Wikipedia a bit . . . .

Yes, most soldiers were sold into slavery.  Some family members were held for ransom, but many were simply released.  There was some back and forth on the terms though.  Initially more favorable terms were offered if the city was surrendered without a battle.  When that was refused, it seems as if the invaders had no intention to spare anyone.  The existing terms that came to pass were hammered out after the commander in charge of the city (Balian of Ibelin) threatened to execute all POW's (about 5000 in total) unless more generous terms were offered by Saladin.

PS While it's not quite exactly right, a good theatrical depiction of these events can be seen in the movie "Kingdom of Heaven".  All the details aren't correct, but it's a fairly close approximation.

[Tommyt]

Powderman
 They all know what you ask they just won't answer. So they continue to "Pic your Question" ask you too
"Reword/Rephrase " Twist and turn ................................
 Did you ever here Bill Clinton,gore,any kennedy,barry,billery,get asked a question, that will put turd in their Face?
Better yet Remedy something they have been MILKING for years.
They do the same as above.
Twist,turn,change,reroute,Then answer the Question with a Question
Same Ole, Same Ole


I'll participate

If the godless nations would quit murdering innocents, sawing peoples heads off, attacking soft targets all over the world, attacking Israel, and laid down their arms, the whole world would be at peace.

YES, in time
 There would be very Little fighting Killing
there would be a few stragglers (The Copycat Murders)
 When they were cleaned out, I believe Peace

If Israel laid down her arms, their godless neighbors (and all other godless ones across the world)would slaughter them all, every man, woman, and child, then renew their attacks on the world.
 I ask again. True??? Or false???

TRUE

Tommyt

[scootrd]

So I did a bit of reading on crusades today , Still couldn't determine why Jews sided with Muslims  in defense of Jerusalem against crusading Franks..

But then I became sidetracked and started reading about Saladin specifically. It appears he and King Richard had the utmost respect for one another even during the middle of war.   When Richard became ill with fever, Saladin offered the services of his personal physician. Saladin also sent him fresh fruit with snow, to chill the drink, as treatment. At Arsuf, when Richard lost his horse, Saladin sent him two replacements. Saladin released Guy of Lusignan and returned him to his wife. In the The Battle of Hattin (before the fall of Jerusalem), Balian (I believe he was a knight ) asked Saladin for permission to return through the lines to Jerusalem to escort his wife and their children to Tripoli. Saladin allowed this, provided that Balian leave the city and take an oath to never raise arms against him. Yet when they arrived in Jerusalem Balain was begged to stay and defend the city.  during the seige Saladin stated no ill-will to Balian for breaking his oath, and arranged for an escort to accompany Maria and their children to Tripoli. After Saladin took back Jerusalem, He allowed for Christian pilgrimages to the city to continue , and invited the Jews to stay and resettle the city.  I also learned and didn't know before he was a Sunni Kurd.

Yet on the other hand Saladin could be quite ruthless. Decapitations , slaughter etc.. he personally executed Raynald de Châtillon.

After the 3rd Crusade was over , King Richard and Saladin continued to exchange gifts though they never met in person .

All in all ...
Saladin appears to be a very complex and interesting historical Muslim Sunni Kurd figure, Who gained respect from his adversaries, believed in religious tolerance towards Jews and Christians alike.  A very complex individual.

I will have to do more reading on Saladin when I have more time.

[powderman]

TOMMY T. Thank you Sir. Out of all the posts here you are the ONLY one who has answered the questions I posed. You are right, they understand the question perfectly but cannot answer it without getting egg on their faces. Typical for them, and they know who they are. Guzzi finally posted, another no, I won't answer. POWDERMAN.