Author Topic: Colt navy and/or army questions  (Read 2279 times)

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Offline Throckmorton

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Colt navy and/or army questions
« on: November 11, 2010, 03:15:23 PM »
I have inherited 2 Colt piistols,colt marked,no import marks. ONe is still in a Colt box,appears unfired.
gun no. 1:: serial no.EB001 appears unfired,square back trigger guard,ship engraving on cylinder.

gun no.2:: fired ,excellent shape,no messed up screws,no rust,etc.  4 digit no. starting with 4.no prefix 0r suffix.

WAG as to value of these? I can maybe get pics tomorrow but tried to describe them accurately.

what is difference between armies and navies,is it the caliber,or ???

thanks a lot

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Colt navy and/or army questions
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2010, 05:12:50 PM »
I can't tell about the pistols but the difference between the army and navy model as I understand it was indeed caliber. Aparently the war dept decided that the navy would be served well enough with a smaller caliber i.e. .36 and the army with .44. Again, thats as I understand it. Some one with more expertise on the subject could jump in here and deny or confirm. Not to say that sailors and soldiers didn't carry either a .44 and or a .36.

Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Colt navy and/or army questions
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2010, 05:57:13 PM »
I have inherited 2 Colt piistols,colt marked,no import marks. ONe is still in a Colt box,appears unfired.
gun no. 1:: serial no.EB001 appears unfired,square back trigger guard,ship engraving on cylinder.

gun no.2:: fired ,excellent shape,no messed up screws,no rust,etc.  4 digit no. starting with 4.no prefix 0r suffix.

WAG as to value of these? I can maybe get pics tomorrow but tried to describe them accurately.

what is difference between armies and navies,is it the caliber,or ???

thanks a lot

Describe the 'Colt Box'  Color, what is printed on it, any label?  Definitely need pictures.

WAG - 2nd Gen 1851 Navy in 80% is worth around $225.00,  Unfired NIB worth around $700.00

Primary distinction between an Army and a Navy is caliber.  Navy caliber was .36 and Army caliber was .44.  beyond that, cylindersize and barrel type ware discriminators.  Not including Baby Dragoons or Pocket Pistols, only Navies had octagonal barrels; while Armies and Navies had round barrels
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Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Colt navy and/or army questions
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2010, 03:50:48 AM »
The 1851 was a .36 caliber and was called the "Navy model" because of the navel battle scene engraved on the cylinder. The 1860 was called the Army model because it was intended for standard issue to the army but actually both services used revolvers of both calibers.
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Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Colt navy and/or army questions
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2010, 04:27:53 AM »
The 1851 was a .36 caliber and was called the "Navy model" because of the navel battle scene engraved on the cylinder. The 1860 was called the Army model because it was intended for standard issue to the army but actually both services used revolvers of both calibers.

The Naval Battle Scene is found on the 1851, 1860, and 1861 model pistols.  Caliber is what distinguishes between an Army and Navy pistol.  The 1851 was originally called the Belt Pistol of Navy Caliber; the 1860 was the Improved Holster Pistol of Army Caliber; and the 1861 was the Improved Belt Pistol of Navy Caliber. 
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee
Man of many Colt's and alter ego of Diabolical Ken
SASS Regulator 28654-L-TG, Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire
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"Cynic:  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees thing as they are, not as they should be."  Ambrose Bierce

Offline Flint

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Re: Colt navy and/or army questions
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2010, 07:37:47 AM »
Photos will help us identify the revolvers...

Other than caliber, the definition also includes barrel length as specified by the govt when purchasing, regardless of maker.  Unlike requirements of later years where the design and parts were to be identical and interchangable by all makers, such as the Springfield "03, the M1 Garand and Carbine, the M1911 etc, the Civil War era specs were much simpler.

A "Navy" is 36 caliber with a 7-1/2 inch barrel.

An "Army" is 44 caliber with an 8 inch barrel.

As stated earlier, the Naval Battle scene on the cylinder of the Colt 51 Belt Pistol (as called by Colt) is most likely the source of the term "Navy", but all revolvers made on 36 caliber for military use were called Navies regardless of maker.

Although the Colt "Army" also had the Naval Battle scene rolled onto the cylinder, it was not called a Navy.  Colt called the revolver a "Holster Pistol", now commonly called a New Model Army.  The Dragoon was a "Horse Pistol" as it was really too heavy to carry on a belt, but was normally carried in a pommel holster on the horse's saddle, usually in pairs.

You will find that Colts, Remingtons, Starrs, and others are called Armies or Navies based on the caliber and barrel length.
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Offline Rangr44

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Re: Colt navy and/or army questions
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 10:45:52 AM »
FWIW:

An 1851 Colt Navy, and it's clones, should have a .36 cal OCTAGON barrel.

An 1860 Colt Army, and it's clones, should have a .44 cal ROUND barrel.

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