Presidents plan to reduce deficit

[teamnelson]

http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/10/news/economy/fiscal_commission_prelim_report/index.htm?hpt=T1

Obamas plan to reduce deficit by 4 trillion; military and vets pay attention.
- freeze non combat pay for 3 years.
- increase co pays for medical, dental.
- close 1/3 overseas bases.
- increase insurance premiums on fsgli, sgli, dental

So let me get this straight ... our pay hasn't caught up with cost of living since Reagan; I've got E-6s that qualify for wic. And he wants to fix the deficit off of our backs? Thanks for the Veterans Day gift Mr. President. How about the entire federal government including all elected officials take a 3 year pay freeze, not just the troops that you say already pay most of the price of freedom.

[George Foster]

It would be nice if some of you stated the facts once in awhile.  In the first place it isn't the Presidents plan, it was proposed by a bipartisian commission.  In the second place why don't you state the whole plan instead of just cherry picking but then if you did that you wouldn't be able to start the trouble you wish to start would you.

[beerbelly]

From what I have seen of the commissions report there is a lot of new taxes. Like 15 cents a gallon on gasoline! Obama appointed the commission, so yes it is his plan! You think he put people on it that disagreed with him?
                             Beerbelly

[Conan The Librarian]

It wasn't you or me that wasted that money by spending it all, so why should we get a tax increase? Cut the spending! Federal government can easily be cut by 2/3 because of the wasteful way in which it is run. Everybody is arguing about who pays for this and who pays for that in their taxes. Almost nobody talks about deeply cutting the spending.

[gypsyman]

Typical political bs. Lets not get rid of usless organizations like the Dept. of Education,Energy, EPA, money to the U.N.. As they sit in D.C., these organizations are a useless black hole for dumping our money. Get rid of them, and put them on the local level where they can address the situation on a personal level.
Example, just on the news 2 nights ago, over 2 million dollars for a study, of what to do about Asian carp in the Mississippi river, to keep them out of the Great Lakes.(I live within a mile of Lake Erie, which has had numerous exotics enter the waters in the last 20 years). Hey morons, build a permanent barrier to keep the waters seperate, unload your river barge's on one side, and send them back down the river. Hey, problem solved, send me the check!
I just heard that some federal employee's make $150,000 a year. NOBODY, BUT NOBODY, works that hard for the govt.
In over 6+ years of going to school board meetings, not once has a federal employee showed up at any of our local meetings. What are they doing there, discussing how long recess is?? Now that my blood pressure is up, time to go to work to send these hard working civil servants more money. gypsyman

[Junior1942]

TM7 wrote: If the military needs more compensation I propose a special tax on those with incomes over $1mil/year,  or net worth over $6.6 million as they are the sector that most benefits from the activities of the military....

We can't do that.  Republicans don't think rich people should pay taxes.

[George Foster]

I don't agree with everything the commission is proposing but I think at least they are making a good effort at a starting point.  BB, apparently Obama appointed people that wouldn't agree with him since it is composed of Reps and Dems. 

[no guns here]

Actually, just getting rid of the IRS would go a LONG way toward getting rid of the excess spending.  I keep seeing numbers like "it cost 51 cents of every dollar collected to run the IRS".  Don't know if it's true or not, but I'm going to go along with it.  A flat tax with NO exemptions, refunds or credits would be easy to administer and would cost less than what we are doing now.  Wouldn't matter whether you make $10,000 or $100,000,000, you would pay the same % in tax.  Then everyone would be even and nobody would have a reason to whine.  The feds should shoot for an overall cut of about 5% per year in size of government and number of employees.  Keep this up for 5-10 years to give folks time to be re-assimilated into the commercial sector.  Bring the military home. Save the money.  Cut foreign aid.  Save the money.





NGH

[Dixie Dude]

Rich people or millionairs and billionairs have never paid taxes regardless of which party.  The have foundations, pet charities, money in the businsess pays for their cars, etc.  (business expense).  That is why a flat tax with NO deductions will make them pay their fair share.  Taxing those extra above $200,000 or $250,000 is really taxing the upper middle class, not the rich.  Upper middle class has provided the most jobs in the last 20 years, not big corporations.  I have three contractors that bring in gross over $250,000 a year in their businesses.  The smallest one has 3-5 employees, the largest of the three has about 20.  In January their taxes go up.  They are talking laying off about 1 employee each just to pay the taxes.  Dumb democrats.  Doctors make over $250,000 a year, but they have to have a staff.  Their taxes go up, so does their fees to pay for the extra tax.  Flat taxes or a national sales tax will affect everyone rich and poor.  It's just the rich buy more things, so they will pay more taxes.  In 1960, we didn't have a welfare department, energy department, environmental department, etc, etc.  We got along just fine.  The more big government gets involved the worse things get.  Welfare was handled at a state and local level.  Energy was dependent on market forces.  Environmental department has gone way beyond the environment to shutting down jobs for a grass that grows on the side of the road (had that happen), to a mussel or fish in the water.  They put animal and plant needs above human needs.  We were going to install a gas main under a creek that they though had a certain mussel in it.  We were going to bore 20' under the creek to install the gas main.  They made us go 40.  Totally unnessary.  

[magooch]

I don't know who you guys are talking about when you say the rich don't pay taxes.  Just check the figures and you will find that the rich pay the majority of taxes--period.  And how is it that the rich get more of the benefit of government spending?  Again, the rich pay a much higher share of the taxes and in many cases get less benefit--such as in the case of property taxes.

[powderman]

Our military is the backbone of America. They should have the absolute best that America has to offer, they've earned it. Our freedoms were bought with their dedication, sweat, and blood. They put their lives on the line daily and stand between us and the evil in this world. May God bless them one and all.
Budget cuts???  How about  the latest billion bo spent to woo other nations, not to mention the $600 million thrown away to the palistinians, or micheles lavish lifestyle, or their expensive dates going back to Chicago just to eat supper, they go quite often, then of course there are all their vacations.  If we stopped all aid to countries that hate us we'd save billions and billions just right there. Then theres the price gouging from unscrupulous contractors charging $500 for a hammer or several thousand for a toilet seat. Stop all expense accounts for congress and cut their salaries. Put an end to all bills and laws with ammendments, let each bill stand or fall on its own. YES, a lot of money can be saved, but start at the top, leave our military alone. POWDERMAN. 

[Dixie Dude]

Heres my list of budget cuts:
1) Foreign aid
2) Earmarks
3) Return schools to state and local control.
4) Return welfare to state and local control.
5) Eliminate the health care bill and revise the health care laws to limit malpractice lawsuits and allow cross state competition.  You could have manditory health insurance of some kind (mim required for emergencies and hospitalization). 
6) I do think some foreign bases could be closed or reduced especially in Europe where they are not really needed anymore. 
7) Tarriff on imports if we have a trade deficit with that country. 
Flat income tax
9) Possibly a national sales tax of 1%.
10) No money for NPR or the Arts.
11) Perform manditory sterilization for women on welfare if they have over 2 children and are on welfare and/or food stamps.  If not, you don't get anymore for any other kids.
12) Go back to commodities instead of food stamps.  Less fraud, more stigma for not improving yourself. 
13) Develop some type of plan to bring back labor intensive industries to keep the poor working such as textiles and shoes.  Tarriffs, tax credits, or something. 
14) Put all government workers pay on par with the average private workers in the area or state.
15) Put all politicians on the same benefits as the people. 
16) During bad times, freeze all federal wages including politicians.
17) Get a balanced budget Amendment
18) Sell unnecessary government assets such as TVA.  Sell public land with minerals such as oil, coal, natural gas to developers. 
19) Government cannot own any industry in direct competition with private industry such as TVA or Amtrack, auto companies, banks, etc. 

Just a few that I can think of.

[briarpatch]

Who thinks the clown appointed anyone from the Right. You cant say he appointed someone from the dem or reps and think he has honest thinkers. Both sides have their communist. All he did was appoint someone to say it was bipartisan. Everyone of those whacks are left, far left liars.
The clown is not going to cut his ignorant programs but he will make the fools think he will. 

[Dixie Dude]

Alan Simpson was a liberal republican back in the day.  Why didn't he appoint a conservative republican on the committee.   Even Newt Gingrich who balanced the budget in the 90's would have been better than Alan Simpson. 

[MGMorden]

Cut the spending! Federal government can easily be cut by 2/3 because of the wasteful way in which it is run.

You do realize that the Defense/Military budget is the single largest component OF the federal budget right?  More of the federal budget goes to military spending (23%) than any other category.  You're going to have to make up your mind.  If you want to cut Federal spending, some of those cuts WILL be in the military sector, as suggested here.  You can't decouple the military from the Federal Government - it doesn't run for free.

[teamnelson]

It would be nice if some of you stated the facts once in awhile.  In the first place it isn't the Presidents plan, it was proposed by a bipartisian commission.  In the second place why don't you state the whole plan instead of just cherry picking but then if you did that you wouldn't be able to start the trouble you wish to start would you.

George, never my intention to state the whole plan. You must have missed the part of my post where I specifically addressed veterans and active duty military members so that I could draw their attention to specific points. That might explain why you called it cherry picking. Perhaps if you reread it, you'll notice what you missed. And since the commission was appointed by the President to advise the President on a plan that will be the President's when executed, like every other plan before this, forgive me if I just went ahead and made the logical leap to its conclusion. When this is enacted, it will be his plan, and he will campaign for it, and use it for reelection in 2012. Don't have to be a prophet to see that.

I guess I should ask if it matters to you how veterans and military members are treated in the fine print on a deficit reduction plan?

[George Foster]

It isn't in the "fine print" it was brought right out in the open when the commission announced their suggestions. 

[George Foster]

Team Nelson,

If indeed it is to be the Presidents plan I will be happy to say GOOD!  At least he is proposing a plan which is a heck of a lot more than any of the others are doing.  I don't suppose you saw the other night Preident Reagans budget director talking about how this problem we have now has been building up for 30yrs. 

[teamnelson]

... which is why it bothers me when, as you have noted George, they are open in their targeting of veterans and active duty military members as a part of this proposal.

Streamline Defense? Sure. There's a lot of waste, however you're going to have to change National Security Strategy & Policy, and resurrect the definition of "defense." But as President Obama has stated, "Freedom isn't free, and the Marines will pay most of that tab for you." He's also publicly thanked the spouses of the deployed for their sacrifices in support of their spouses who are serving their country at "great personal cost." So let's be consistent; leave the troops alone.

This ought not to be a partisan issue; last time I checked, the military is a non-partisan entity.

[LunaticFringeInc]

In 2009 DoD proposed a 3.9% pay increase for active military employees. An E-6 earns somewhere between $2100 to 2900/month roughly depending on years of work, plus benefits, which appears to be competitive with the private sector,,disregarding the risk factors. Risk factors are ameliorated by combat pay and and other incentives; plus commissary and other purchasing privileges, moving expenses, socialized medical care, a pension, disability insurance and so forth. A sizeable life insurance poilcy is available. All this is not available in the private sector...and of course in the private sector you can get booted out of your job 'at will' as many here well know, unless you're in a union..

Compensation seems competitive to the private sector, although of course it can be argued that risking one's life can not really be compensated. Problem is the private sector average man and family have been loosing purchasng power rather steadily for many years_ _many now taking pay cuts; and loosing job stability as well; yet asked to foot the bill for every government's whim....Then again I don't know how you could compensate for duty and honor to country service..its just one of those things and thank God there are people that are called to duty, but like all things in our society there's a price on it. If it is wealth you're looking for_ _get into something else, or become corrupt.. If the military needs more compensation I propose a special tax on those with incomes over $1mil/year,  or net worth over $6.6 million as they are the sector that most benefits from the activities of the military....like buying box seats at the ball game...you pay more.


Meanwhile, George....if you have detailed info on your points, I would be happy to take a closer look at it.



TM7
.

Have you served in the military in the last 10 years and made a few PCS moves, just kinda curious?

2900 a month sounds like a whole lot until you start taking taxes out of it, SSI ect...then it goes down really fast.  Then when you start to add up the number of hours I worked a month to get that 2900, it didnt even work out to minimum wage, even after I added my sea pay, hazardous duty pay and other allowences.  Additionally, my housing allowance only once in the 21 years I served was actually enough to even come close to covering my housing expenses, and I was living on a 37ft sloop rigged sailboat cuase it was cheaper than and apartment then!  I dont think I made one PCS move where it didnt cost me a couple of grand out of my pocket that wasnt reimbursed.  In fact it took me 18 years to get to a point where I was making that 2900 a month as an E-6 before I turned down promotion to E-7 and cut my losses and got out and went back to the civilian sector.  If I would have done the job I did in the Military at Raytheon or Texas Insturments I guarentee you I would have been making a heck of a lot more than 2900 after 21 years and worked a fraction of the hours to boot too!!!

Yeah you can rack up some serious cash benefits off medical care...if your chronically ill or have dependents that are.  While medical care the last 10 years I was in improved considerably over the previous 11 years, most of the so called benefits where "care" I didnt want and a lot of care I was getting was being given by unqualified people getting OJT to learn how to preform a proceedure and YOUR the test vehicle!  I never feared going to the dentist or the doctor when I had a health issue until I got in the military!  So the medical benefits you get in the military aint all its cracked up to be I assure you.

Well uniforms are free.  No they are not.  You get a couple of hundred a year for uniform maintenance but it doesnt begin to cover your uniform expenses.  I spent that allowence on 2 pairs a boots alone a year if I was able to get 2 pairs to last that long.  BDU's are about the cheapest Uniform I had and I think anyone here thats bought BDU's lately will agree they aint exactly cheap!

Not trying to bust on anyone, just want to point out there is a lot more to the story than initially meets the eye when you start considering pay for the troops serving.  Dont know about you all, but I will gladley accept cuts else where in the budget or pay a few bucks more in with holding taxes in order to give the Ladies and Gents in uniform a 3.9% pay raise.  I promise you they have more than earned it!  I know, I have been there and done that.

[wareagleguy]

Dixie,
How would it help the budget to sell TVA?  You should study the history of TVA.  There is a reason why it was built in the Tennessee Valley and not any where else.  The fact is there was a private power company that had the area and because the profit was not high enough the company would not pay the expense, so people had no power in the area.  Private companies are not always the answer.  Sometimes it takes government intervention and this was a perfect example.

[The Hermit]

My welfare neighbor is worried that the Gov will take back the new cell phone they gave him. He has his drug dealer on speed dial.   
So many places to start to fix things, I would list military benefits on the bottom of the list.

  The Hermit

[saddlebum]

I watched Glenn Beck pitch his plan concerning military pay in front of an audience of West Point Cadets today. It sounded good to me!
Except for the part about how much they get paid now!!  

“The average guy in the U.S. Army serves for four years and they get out as a specialist. As a specialist they make $22,676. They pick up a gun and go in the line of fire because your country asks you too for $22,676. They aren’t doing it for money. ”

“The average American makes $50,462.”

“Now here is where it gets good. The average salary of a federal employee, you know the ones who can never get the paperwork right make 74,403.”

“The average person serving in Congress. Remember they use that word, they don’t call it a job. They serve. [The Average American] is their master, [The US Army] is the guardian that protects them as [the average persons in congress] are supposedly protecting the Constitution. How much does [the average persons in congress] get paid for their service. This is the basic salary. $174,000.”

“We have to cut our budgets. In the book “Broke” I outline budget cuts. And one of them is controversial is I take on the Department of Defense. And the reason I did it is it’s easy to right a chapter on how we have to shut off NPR. I can do that in my sleep. I wanted to show you that the one thing I care the most about is the defence of our nation and we can make inteligent cuts without hurting our defense and without hurting people. We can actualy help people.”

“Congressmen SHALL NOT be paid more than those who are currently serving in the front line of duty. They shall never make more than $22,676. There is no reason Congress should enrich themselves and make more money then somoene who is on the front line fight. Someone who is in a tank right now, someone who is risking their life to save a child in another country. Are you kidding me? There is no justification for congressional salaries.  None. Demand congress lower their salries and their benefits to the same level that is offered to our soldiers, period. ”

“I’m going to take it a step further. Federal employees SHALL NOT be allowed to be ever to make more than [the average American salary] of $50,462. Ever”

“Congress and employees of the federal government should only get raises when the citizens get raises. Members of congress should never make more than the soldiers who die in the battlefield. ”

“Congress I know you got a lot of special perks. Your medical care should be exactly the same as the VA hospital gives out. You are in ‘service’ of your country, if you don’t like it then maybe you should offer better benefits at the VA hospitals.”
http://wireupdate.com/wires/12302/glenn-beck-congressional-pay-should-be-the-same-as-soliders-salary/


It doesn't say it in this article, but on the show he suggested that the military get payed more. When he says that the Congress not get paid more than 22,676, what he is saying is that they should not get more than a fighting man.
He also talks about how much wealth Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have amassed while in Congress. MILLIONS!!

If you want to watch the program click the link. If you want to get to the meat of what we are talking about, fast forward to the 9min mark on the counter.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4417084/beck-americas-heroes

[saddlebum]

Heres my list of budget cuts:
1) Foreign aid
2) Earmarks
3) Return schools to state and local control.
4) Return welfare to state and local control.
5) Eliminate the health care bill and revise the health care laws to limit malpractice lawsuits and allow cross state competition.  You could have manditory health insurance of some kind (mim required for emergencies and hospitalization). 
6) I do think some foreign bases could be closed or reduced especially in Europe where they are not really needed anymore. 
7) Tarriff on imports if we have a trade deficit with that country. 
Flat income tax
9) Possibly a national sales tax of 1%.
10) No money for NPR or the Arts.
11) Perform manditory sterilization for women on welfare if they have over 2 children and are on welfare and/or food stamps.  If not, you don't get anymore for any other kids.
12) Go back to commodities instead of food stamps.  Less fraud, more stigma for not improving yourself. 
13) Develop some type of plan to bring back labor intensive industries to keep the poor working such as textiles and shoes.  Tarriffs, tax credits, or something. 
14) Put all government workers pay on par with the average private workers in the area or state.
15) Put all politicians on the same benefits as the people. 
16) During bad times, freeze all federal wages including politicians.
17) Get a balanced budget Amendment
18) Sell unnecessary government assets such as TVA.  Sell public land with minerals such as oil, coal, natural gas to developers. 
19) Government cannot own any industry in direct competition with private industry such as TVA or Amtrack, auto companies, banks, etc. 

Just a few that I can think of.

DUDE FOR PRESIDENT!!!   

[Junior1942]

>18) Sell unnecessary government assets such as TVA.  Sell public land with minerals such as oil, coal, natural gas to developers. 

Goodbye BLM western land, all national forests, parks, monuments, etc. 

[saddlebum]

>18) Sell unnecessary government assets such as TVA.  Sell public land with minerals such as oil, coal, natural gas to developers. 

Goodbye BLM western land, all national forests, parks, monuments, etc. 

That's a good idea!
If all that stuff was controled by the states it would be managed much better. States get the revenue and need less or no federal money for infrustructure and such. Develope their own resources. Manage their own wildlife and rangelands......I like it!!

[Dixie Dude]

Not all national forests, parks or land, just those with mineral wealth.  Also, as the population increases, more land will be need for people to live anyways.  Half of all the land west of the Mississippi is owned by the Feds.  At least if not sell it, sell the mineral rights so we can put people to work drilling and mining.  Land can be restored.  Probably 75% of Alaska is owned by the Feds with abundant coal, oil, and natural gas.  

As far as TVA, sure sometimes things need to be kick started by the Feds.  They no longer need to own and subsidise their power with my tax dollars.  Sell it to private utilities.  Their work is done and no longer needed.  It was needed originally to build the dams.  Same with passenger rail transportation.  No longer needed.  America chose to use private cars, airplanes and busses.  Why use tax dollars to subsidise something that doesn't at least break even.  

[Brett]

“The average American makes $50,462.” ?   I think that figure is a tad inflated.  The average income for all Americans may be $50,462 but that is not the same as the "Average American's income".  If my reckoning is correct, based on a 40hr work week 52 weeks a year that works out to a hair over $24/hr.  I know few "average" Americans making that kind of bread.   Some folks make considerably more than that but I estimate the majority of Americas make less than that.

[KB21]

I agree with most of what you say here.  There are a few things I disagree with and a few things I would add.

First thing, this country needs to take a noninterventionalist role with their foreign policy.  If it doesn't directly threaten us, we should not get involved.  Why exactly do we have military bases all over the world?  Closing 1/3rd of the military bases would be a start with a goal of eventually getting ourselves out of every country.  The soldiers that we have stationed at these military bases would serve us much better guarding the border between us and Mexico.  That's basically killing two birds with one stone.  We stop being the world's police force, and we come up with a solution to our illegal immigration problem.

Second, the US needs to immediately pull out of the UN, NATO, WTO, and NAFTA. 

Two areas where I disagree is the income tax and mandatory sterilization of women on welfare.  First, I feel the income tax should be eliminated.  Second, the federal government has no more of a right to tell a woman when to be sterilized as it does of telling any of us that we have to buy health insurance.  Hopefully, if welfare is run at the state level, the state will be a lot more stringent on who qualifies for it and have certain safeguards.  Also, welfare and medicaid shouldn't be unlimited.  It was intended to be a temporary assistance measure to help people get back on their feet.  Or at least that should have been the intent behind it.  It was ultimately a vote buying scheme and a way to keep poor people poor, IMO.

Heres my list of budget cuts:
1) Foreign aid
2) Earmarks
3) Return schools to state and local control.
4) Return welfare to state and local control.
5) Eliminate the health care bill and revise the health care laws to limit malpractice lawsuits and allow cross state competition.  You could have manditory health insurance of some kind (mim required for emergencies and hospitalization). 
6) I do think some foreign bases could be closed or reduced especially in Europe where they are not really needed anymore. 
7) Tarriff on imports if we have a trade deficit with that country. 
Flat income tax
9) Possibly a national sales tax of 1%.
10) No money for NPR or the Arts.
11) Perform manditory sterilization for women on welfare if they have over 2 children and are on welfare and/or food stamps.  If not, you don't get anymore for any other kids.
12) Go back to commodities instead of food stamps.  Less fraud, more stigma for not improving yourself. 
13) Develop some type of plan to bring back labor intensive industries to keep the poor working such as textiles and shoes.  Tarriffs, tax credits, or something. 
14) Put all government workers pay on par with the average private workers in the area or state.
15) Put all politicians on the same benefits as the people. 
16) During bad times, freeze all federal wages including politicians.
17) Get a balanced budget Amendment
18) Sell unnecessary government assets such as TVA.  Sell public land with minerals such as oil, coal, natural gas to developers. 
19) Government cannot own any industry in direct competition with private industry such as TVA or Amtrack, auto companies, banks, etc. 

Just a few that I can think of.

[Brett]

How much does the Average American Make? Breaking Down the U.S. Household Income Numbers.

This link gives you a breakdown of earnings by percentages.

http://www.mybudget360.com/how-much-does-the-average-american-make-breaking-down-the-us-household-income-numbers/