Re chamber 30-30 to what?

[RG2]

I hunt with a 35 Rem old contender in Ar.  All of my shots are less than 125 yds.  I have taken 8 deer and 6 hogs with it.    I want to reach out and touch a big 12 pt that dances around 225 yards from me.   I just bought a used factory, 23 inch 30-30 barrell and wondered what I could do to reach him. I do reload.   

I have thought about having barrell rechambered to 300 savage, 30-40 krag or 300 whisper etc.   This barrell would be on my contender.  What is best idea for rechamber to reach out to 225 ydsd and put this buck on my wall?

Or should I save my penneys and buy another caliber or a encore?

Thanks

[mcwoodduck]

Practice, Practice, Practice.
With a 125 Soft point to a 165 grain soft point hand load you should be good.
After all people shoot deer and elk with a 308 Win out of a rifle with similar weight bullets at 300 yards and "the bullets don't bounce off" (to quote Altlaw)
I am not sure the gun will take the pressure of the 300 Savage.  Or you may have to down load it to the 2300 Fps range or same as 30-30, so why/
30-30 reloads are real close to 30-40K that I am not sure you are going to get that much out of a 30-40 over a 30-30 and still stay in the pressure safe zone.  You always could go with the Ackley Improved Version.  Blows out the shoulders to create case volume.  Shooting 30-30 in it just fire forms the brass.  Also alows you to shoot factory ammo in the rifle.
Much like 308 and 30-06 are a 100 FPS apart with the same bullet the 30-40 and the 30-30AI with reloads.
Looking at rifle data you have a 30-30 sending a 170 grain bullet about 2300 FPS
30-40K sending a 180 grain bullet about 2450 FPS
300 Savage sending a 180 grain bullet about 2475 FPS  (also 300 Savage is shorter than 30-30 in case length)  30-30 is 7.62X51R.  The same case length as 308 Win and 300 Savage is a shorter case than 308.  About the same as the 35 Rem case.
and 300 Whisper can not be done easily, as the case is smaller in diameter and length than the 30-30.  Not to mention the whole idea of the whisper is launching 150 to 180 grain bullets at speeds that can be supressed easily.  1300 to 1800 FPS
It is based on a 221 Fireball case that is a short 223 case.  Not saying it can not be done but why go with a slower bullet?

[quickdtoo]

I'd recommend the 30-30AI, I shoot the 125gr Sierra SPT at over 2800fps in my 22" Handi-rifle, I don't know if the Contender will handle that pressure, but it's factory available in 375Win which is what brass I use for my 30-30AI handloads. 

Tim

Trajectory for Sierra Bullets .308 dia. 125 gr. SPT at 2800 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.279   0.277   0.264   0.264   0.264
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2800   2000   2000   2000
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet   Humidity: 70 Percent   Pressure: 29.53 in/Hg
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2800.0   2175.7   1.55   -0.18   -0.11   23430.58   0.000000000
25   2716.9   2048.4   1.51   -0.14   -0.14   0.0   0.027192530
50   2635.4   1927.3   1.46   -0.58   0.93   0.0   0.055221561
75   2555.3   1812.0   1.42   -1.33   1.68   0.0   0.084123330
100   2476.6   1702.1   1.37   -2.41   2.1   0.0   0.113936634
125   2399.3   1597.5   1.33   -3.84   2.17   0.0   0.144704346
150   2323.3   1497.9   1.29   -5.65   1.86   0.0   0.176471044
175   2248.7   1403.3   1.25   -7.87   1.14   0.0   0.209283881
200   2175.4   1313.3   1.21   -10.52   0.0   0.0   0.243193756
225   2103.5   1227.9   1.17   -13.62   -1.6   0.0   0.278254863
250   2032.9   1146.9   1.13   -17.21   -3.7   0.0   0.314524125
275   1962.0   1068.3   1.09   -21.34   -6.31   0.0   0.352070051
300   1891.1   992.5   1.05   -26.02   -9.5   0.0   0.391006699

[skarke]

3030 AI, plus 1.  This is a great cartridge.  The one thing is that I'd definitely have someone good do the job.  Make sure that you get a centered, straight chambering.  With that, it'll shoot.

[Hopalong7]

      If we were talking pistol length barrels here I'd definately reccomend the 309JDJ with a 165BT for a big deer at long range, But, since were(I assume)talking 21"/23" carbine barrels the 30-30AI with the same bullet should do nicely.  And, truth be told, the 30-30Win shootin' the pointy 165BT would be awfully close to same.
Walt

[alan in ga]

Another vote for the 30/30 Ackley Improved. Got one in a 14" pistol and had a Handi Rifle in same. GREAT cartridge but don't try to make it a 30-06! It doesn't need to be one!

[RG2]

Thanks for all of the responses.  I had forgotten about the 30-30 AI.  I looked at the Billistics and they are what I

want plus it is a easy upgrade.    Any suggestions on Who to do the rechamber job?   

Thanks again.

Be Safe

RG2

[quickdtoo]

I did mine by hand with a rented reamer, but you can't go wrong with having it done professionally by a good smith like one of our site sponsors, Oregunsmithing or SSK would be my first choice.

Tim

http://www.oregunsmithingllc.com/

http://www.sskindustries.com/

[mcwoodduck]

I would say take the barrel out as is first and see how it does at 200 to 250 yards.
Try some factory Federal semi pointed 150 grainers.
Or try the Hornady 160 grain flex tipped.  (two weeks ago saw them take a cow elk in Montana at about 100 yards, Hole in and hole out breaking ribs both ways.  Was not bang flop but I think it was because of the kid not hitting anything vital.  The Cow ran about 30 to 40 yards and flopped over, also the cow was in a trot when shot.  But one hole strait through the boiler room on an ELK, holing both lungs.)
If you put the bullet where you are supose to,
I don't think the extra 100 to 150 fps is going to matter in making the rifle a 30-30AI.
I like trying to shoot a Paper grocery sack stapled on its side on a saw horse.  The grocery sack is about the size of a deers boiler room.  You can use the legs of the saw horse to help align your shots at that range.  They are even deer brown.
If you want to load up some pointed bullets (called 30 American) in your 30-30 and try them out, that too can not hurt.
Before you send the rifle out to be worked on, buy dies, then build up a loads, and then sight in the rifle.  You will need some rounds to shoot to make AI brass, why not see what the old 30-30 has to offer before you alter it.
If it does not do what you want and you want to go to the 30-30 AI that sounds like a summer project to get ready for next years hunt.

[southernutah]

I thought about bumping up a 30-30 but decided on a Encore  308 winchester

[RG2]

How hard was it to rechamber the 30-30 to 30-30 AI on your own?  I am fair at handy man skills but have never rechambered a barrell.   How much does a reamer cost to rent? And where would I rent one.  ?

Thanks for all of the info.  I am defenitly doing the 30-=30 ai.   I am going to try some 30-30 leverlutions first.  I was told they would really do well out to 225. 

By the way this last weekend was opening weekend in AR  I killed a 8 pt and a big doe each with the 35 rem.  I have been expermenting with leverlutions from hornady.  In each case bank flop.  The buck was 80 steps and the doe was 92 steps.   I have no complaints with the leverlutions, also very good in putting hogs down.   

Thanks for all of the responses.

Be safe in the woods. 

[quickdtoo]

It's real easy to do some rechambers by hand, it depends a lot on the parent cartridge and how much taper the chamber has, I've done the 30-30AI, a 45 Colt to 460S&W and a 270Win to AI, rented the 30-30AI and 460 reamers from 4D and the 270AI from Elk Ridge, cost is about $45 or so after return shipping. You'll need a handle of some sort, I use a ¼" drive nutdriver with a suitable socket to fit the reamer or you can use a t-handle, I prefer the nutdriver since it's easier to control sideways pressure to avoid an out of round chamber, mount the barrel vertically, muzzle down in a vise, use lots of cutting fluid, I use Tap Magic, never turn the reamer backwards and remove it and clean the chips out every few turns, I use compressed air to clean both the barrel and the reamer, ream until the rim cutter of the reamer just touches the existing rim cut in the barrel, you might even stop a little short of that just in case the rim cut is on the generous side of specs, a little short will allow factory ammo to headspace on the shoulder instead of the rim which improves brass life, the rim cut in mine is generous, so when I fired Rem factory ammo in the new chamber, 3 of the 5 rounds split at the neck indicating to me that the chamber is a little too deep to the neck-shoulder junction, I suppose it could have been bad brass tho, but I don't think so.  If I had stopped a bit prior to hitting the rim cut, it may have made a better chamber IMO. A good polishing with a drill powered bore mop and fine abrasive like JB or Flitz and you're all done.  

Tim

http://www.4-dproducts.com/

http://www.reamerrentals.com/

[sweetwyominghome]

The 30-30 AI is definitely the way to go. Brass seems to last forever and needs trimming only infrequently. I somehow wound up with 2 -- a 23" SS and a 24" high gloss blued -- and like them so much I can't decide which to keep and which to part with. I made 2 of my longer shots on game with the blued 24" barrel: a 280 yard instant kill on a hog using the 150 grain Accubond and a 297 yard (lasered) shot on a bobcat yesterday using the 150 grain Ballistic SIlvertip. The cat was facing me, and the bullet entered above the left eye and exited the lower abdomen for a dramatic bang-flop.

The BT or BST are THE bullets for this caliber and hold up better and afford superior terminal performance compared to the LeverEvolution projectiles.

[quickdtoo]

Awesome shooting, great pics!!

Tim

[alan in ga]

I'd say poor brass. There is no shoulder contact on a proper AI 30/30 chamber with factory ammo. It has a lot of 'space' at the shoulder area [unlike rimless rounds] and only the rim controls headspace on a factory round in a rimmed AI chamber.
AFTER you fireform to AI then you have shoulder contact for all subsequent rounds and then you DO use the shoulder for headspace. Rimmed factory AI chambers blow the shoulder well forward and 'out'. Rimless factory rounds have to have the tight shoulder/neck contact as there is nothing else [a rim] to control headspace. Some seat bullets out tight into the throat but that is just an ok method in my opinion.
Also, the AI rimmed reamers I've had all cut a larger diameter rim than the factory chambers. Nice because it let's you 'see' the rim cut progress and you can stop just 'at' or 'short', or however you want the rim recess in the chamber cut. Never deeper though unless you have a rare 'too tight' rim recess on a factory chamber which is possible but I've never encountered one...usually too sloppy! [deep recess].

And, to respond to another post, the factory 30/30 is a fine round as is. The Ackley Improved can be loaded warmER [hot?] but so can the factory round if in a strong action [Remington 788 bolt rifle in 30/30 for example].

Fun, but not always necessary, the Ackley Improved rounds. I''ve built and enjoyed a few, but anyone can usually improve the LOADS of the origional factory rounds, too.

[quickdtoo]

Alan,

I see what you mean after looking at the specs on the two rounds, the Improved neck-shoulder junction is much further forward than the parent round. The 4D reamer didn't cut a bigger rim, I've also reamed a couple 357mags to Maxi as well as a 44mag to 445 Supermag, neither of those cut bigger rim cuts either, the 460 did tho, but that's because it is bigger!   Here's a pic of the Rem factory ammo fired in the improved chamber.

thanks,

Tim

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=95

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=220

[sweetwyominghome]

alan in ga wrote: "Fun, but not always necessary, the Ackley Improved rounds. I''ve built and enjoyed a few, but anyone can usually improve the LOADS of the origional factory rounds, too."

To a degree that is very true, but many use the Ackley rounds for reasons other than velocity. I primarily shoot single shots, and the AI shape functions MUCH better and allows superior performance in these guns. I despise trimming brass, but even if you load a standard 30-30 to no more than factory specs in a Contender, you'll still be trimming with  great frequency.

With the AI configuration, trimming is a rarity. I have some 7mm Bullberry brass that has seen either 24 or 25 firings now and, other than the initial square-up, they've only seen 3 trimmings. And all have been full-power loadings.

And I'll gladly accept the by-product of a little more velocity from these type of rounds...

Oh, to avoid any confusion with the photos, the 6.5x30-30 AI and 6.5 Bullberry IMP are one and the same cartridge.

[torpedoman]

3030 AI, plus 1.  This is a great cartridge.  The one thing is that I'd definitely have someone good do the job.  Make sure that you get a centered, straight chambering.  With that, it'll shoot.

+2

[quickdtoo]

Nice shooting, I was tickled to shoot that well at 100yds!!  

Maybe someday we'll hit those coins!! 

Tim

[alan in ga]

I'm using a 30/30 AI now in a 14" Contender G2. Had a Handi Rifle in 30/30 AI.
I wanted to give some 'goodness' credit to the factory rounds, but the Ackley Improved IS my choice still. Love to see a sloppy case go in, and a super neat looking case 'come out'. : )
A few I've had/have:
17 Ackley Hornet
22 K Hornet
.250 Savage AI
.257 Robt. AI
.270 Win AI [got the reamer, havn't used it, YET : )
30/30AI
30/06AI

could have been another one or two, I forget stuff these days.
Played with a friend's .223 AI. and came close to building a .221FBI.

[Curtis]

I'd say poor brass.

Tim, I think Alan is right.  I have a 7-30 Waters rechamber that someone (not me) botched and cut .020 too deep.  Before I realized it had a problem, I was getting case head separations but no neck splits.  For now I'm just sizing my brass .020 long and getting by.

Hmmmm, I wonder if that 7mm Bullberry is long enough to the shoulder to clean up my botched 7-30 chamber.

Curtis

[sweetwyominghome]

Curtis-

No, it is not and in fact is shorter than the 7-30 waters. The 7mm BB is essentially the 7 International Rimmed with the unnecessarily long neck cut back to give a case length of 1.75".

But both SSK and Bullberry offer an improved version of the 7-30.

[RG2]

Thanks for all of the replys.  I have ordered 30-30 AI reamers from 4D.  I am like a kid at Christmas time waiting

for my present.  Ha.   can't wait to begin this project.  I am also looking at getting a 10 or 12 inch 357 barrell and

Reaming it to 357 max.  This is one my son wants.   

There are several other that has been mentioned that I am going to look at. 

I will let you know how tthe new 30-=30 AI shoots once I finish it.   

Thanks again for all of the great info and suggesstions.

Good luck on all of your hunts,


Be Safe ,

RG2

[Curtis]

Curtis-
No, it is not and in fact is shorter than the 7-30 waters. The 7mm BB is essentially the 7 International Rimmed with the unnecessarily long neck cut back to give a case length of 1.75".
But both SSK and Bullberry offer an improved version of the 7-30.

Thanks swh.  Oh well, I'll just keep shooting my "custom" 7-30 and sizing accordingly.
Curtis

[Camp Cook]

I had my factory 21" s/s 30-30 Contender barrel rechambered to 308X444 by he that cannot be mentioned on this site = 150gr Rem Core Lok @ 2620fps.

If I had to do it again I would go for the added case capacity of the 309JDJ though...

Shot this buck @ 210 yards Nov 28 2008 with the combo...

[sweetwyominghome]

That is a BRUTE of a buck!

[SHOOTALL]

I have a friend that killed a nice buck at about 230 yards with a mod 94 with 26 inch oct bbl. He shot 150 winchester silver tips . He hit it twice . I would venture if you can do it the gun can.

[Camp Cook]

That is a BRUTE of a buck!

I originally spotted the buck @ appr 700 yards right at dusk the night before I was actually looking for coyotes so had my 223 barrel installed I headed back to camp swapped barrels and in the morning I took one shot at a target lit up by my headlights to make sure it was still zeroed...

I had full snow camo on because I figured I had to walk across the middle of the logging cut to get to him but as I was walking up the logging road I spotted deer tracks crossing my tracks from the night before.

I had been looking off to the left towards where I had seen the buck so when I spotted the tracks I looked to my right and there he was skyline facing towards me but slightly to the left bullet entered the left front chest just in front of the left leg and exited the right chest breaking the right leg deer made it about 40 yards before collapsing...