Author Topic: 180 Grainers in the .30-06  (Read 10876 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
180 Grainers in the .30-06
« on: November 12, 2010, 01:21:53 PM »
After reading John Barsness' article some time back I wanted to try 180s in my rifle.  I took my Model 700 .30-06 to the range today to try out some 180 grain Core-Lokts.  This is a 5 shot 100 yard group.  The bottom hole is the last 3 rounds I fired.  My friend gave me a tail bag for those 3.  I didn't even have to adjust the scope.  I had been using 165 grain Core-Lokts.


"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline mauser98us

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (40)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1565
  • Gender: Male
  • 10 mm junkie and Whelan wacko
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2010, 02:00:48 PM »
180's are all I use in the 06. Hard to argue with groups like that. I just like the way  they shoot. Even in the inferior mauser action. ;)

Offline PowPow

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1838
  • Gender: Male
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2010, 03:01:51 PM »
180 Pro Hunters are my "anything in North America" bullet.
Of course I stay in my little part of North America.
Got a recipe for 0.40" 3-shots groups.
Just made a trade for some 165 Hornadys, so my opinion could change next week.
The difference between people who do stuff and people who don't do stuff is that the people who do stuff do stuff.

Offline Cheesehead

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3282
  • Gender: Male
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2010, 04:02:21 PM »
Move 2 clicks to the right.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2010, 04:08:51 PM »
Fresca? 
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline JimFromTN

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 339
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2010, 06:04:52 PM »
I don't know if it has anything to do with it but the rem700 in 30-06 has a 1:10 twist rate and from what I have read the optimal bullet weight for that barrel is 170 to 220 gr.  I have been doing allot of research on barrels because I am in the process of building a rifle in 308 win and I have also been looking into replacing the barrel on my rem 700 in 300 win mag.  I have also found that my 300 likes 180's much more than it does 150's.  Remington as well as allot of other manufacturers use the same twist rate of 1:10 on their 308 win, 30-06, and 300 win mag.  The only reason I can think of is because they can buy the same barrel in bulk and use different reamers.  Of course, thats just my own theory and I am probably wrong.

Offline saddlebum

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1694
  • Gender: Male
  • "I ain't never been killed in my life."
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2010, 09:08:23 PM »
Nice looking 700 and nice looking group!
I notice you had your new Featherweight out too. Hope it's working out for you. Let us know.

I only use Sierra 180gr Game Kings for my '06. I have always got 3/4", 3 shot groups with them in my old Ruger and my M-70.
" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

“OUR CONSTITUTION WAS MADE ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ANY OTHER."           John Adams

Offline PowPow

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1838
  • Gender: Male
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2010, 09:24:09 PM »
...The only reason I can think of is because they can buy the same barrel in bulk and use different reamers.  Of course, thats just my own theory and I am probably wrong...
I think you are more right than you give yourself credit for. Look at H&R putting 1:9 on calibers that used to be 1:16 (22 hornet) and maybe 1:14 (22-250). Buy one barrel; chamber it to whatever, let the buyer figure it out.

Fresca?  
that's my drink of choice at the range.
after a certain amount of years, cherry coke and DP just don't get it.
The difference between people who do stuff and people who don't do stuff is that the people who do stuff do stuff.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2010, 10:30:18 PM »
The Featherweight is stringing left to right as it heats up.  I'm going to do a temp float with shims to see if that fixes it.  I drink a 6-pack of Frescas a day.  We all have a vise I guess. ;D
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline saddlebum

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1694
  • Gender: Male
  • "I ain't never been killed in my life."
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2010, 10:46:32 PM »
Winchester used to do the presure point bedding deal at the forend. I never had trouble with mine, but I don't know why.
I did eventually glass bed the action and float the barrel, but it didn't make it any more accurate. It already was.
The presure point system seems like it would be prone to stringing if not done perfectly.
Best of luck with it and let us know! After all my bragging on M-70s I've owned, I would hate to hear if your experience was not good.
" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

“OUR CONSTITUTION WAS MADE ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ANY OTHER."           John Adams

Offline BBF

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10042
  • Gender: Male
  • I feel much better now knowing it will get worse.
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2010, 04:22:39 AM »
A hunting buddy of mine used the Sierra 180 gr bullet in his 30-06 for several years. It worked fine on moose but turned out to be to hard for Coastal Black Tail Deer.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2010, 04:46:03 AM »
I've been around for a while and can remember the advertizing campaign that Fresca did back in the 70's. It was being billed as a woman’s soft drink. They were targeting the female market specifically. I just go for water.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline PowPow

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1838
  • Gender: Male
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2010, 05:37:14 AM »
It does take a certain amount of confidence to drink Fresca.
I know guys who drink Fresca straight from the can without wiping off the top; the kind of guys who don't wear seat belts and run with scissors.
The difference between people who do stuff and people who don't do stuff is that the people who do stuff do stuff.

Offline Cabin4

  • Avery H. Wallace
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4938
  • Gender: Male
  • Out West
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2010, 06:18:44 AM »
It does take a certain amount of confidence to drink Fresca.
I know guys who drink Fresca straight from the can without wiping off the top; the kind of guys who don't wear seat belts and run with scissors.

 :) :) :)
Thats great!
LOL
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline drdougrx

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3212
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2010, 09:01:20 AM »
I HATE 180gr bullets in 30-06 rifles.  Too D*MN predictable.  Bang, flop on everything...boring!!!! 
If you like, please enjoy some of my hunt pics at:

http://public.fotki.com/DrDougRx

If you leave a comment, please leave your GB screen name so that I can reply back!

Offline BBF

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10042
  • Gender: Male
  • I feel much better now knowing it will get worse.
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2010, 06:04:25 PM »
If you shoot them in the head or neck, yes.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline Slufoot

  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1004
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2010, 12:56:30 AM »
Good shooting Swampman!

Slufoot

Offline One Eye

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 139
  • Gender: Male
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2010, 07:36:27 AM »
I have also found that my 300 likes 180's much more than it does 150's.  Remington as well as allot of other manufacturers use the same twist rate of 1:10 on their 308 win, 30-06, and 300 win mag.  The only reason I can think of is because they can buy the same barrel in bulk and use different reamers.  Of course, thats just my own theory and I am probably wrong.

I have owned 2 .300 Win Mags that preferred 180 grain bullets (a Ruger M77 and my Winchester M70 Classic).  My 30.06s seem to prefer 150s and 165s.  I have a Rem 700 BDL that shoots 180s like the group pictured though.  That gun seems to shoot just about anything.
Dan
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

Offline bigshooter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Gender: Male
  • Follow through makes for small groups.
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2010, 05:41:27 PM »
180 grain Ballistic tipped noslers are the best I have ever used. Great expansion at almost any vel. Awesom accuracy too. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18370
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2010, 02:02:47 AM »
ill go against the grain here. I use only 150s and 165s in the o6 and if the game im using it for is on the large side i use the same weight bullet but go with a partition. I know this isnt scientific but ive tracked more deer wounded with the 06 using 180s then all other guns combined. Most times when we found them they had one small hole in and one small hole out with not much sign of expansion. Im sure theyd be fine on animals in the 500 lb range but on little whitetail most 180s are to heavily contructed. Most bullet manufactures know that the primary use for them will be in the various 300 mags and constucted the bullets to hold up at those velocitys. I can see absolutely no advantage to a 180 over a 165 or even a 150 at 06 velocitys against deer that dont go over 200 lbs. The lighter bullets give quicker kills and flatter trajectorys and personaly i wouldnt feel a bit undergunned using an 06 with 165 partitions on any animal under a 1000 lbs.
blue lives matter

Offline Mikey

  • GBO Supporter
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8734
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2010, 03:00:35 AM »
The 06 and the 300 Win Mag have the same twist - 1:10, which is why both prefer the heavier rnage of slugs and why they perform better in those calibers.  The 308 has a 1:12 twist for the lighter 30 caliber slugs in the 125-165 range.  I used to have a Wichester made Model 1917 that carried a left hand 1:10 twist which would should any heavy slug, no matter how hot it was loaded, all day every day and never bust its group.  

I have to go with Lloyd that the 180s in the 06 are heavy for whitetail and a small hole in and a small hole out is typical of 180 gn 30-06 performance on critters less than 200 lb however, with that being said, er writ, the small hole ouot sort of belies the 'jelled' effect on the lungs and often the heart.  I have put 180s right through or right across the top of the heart and had them go 50 yds without lungs or a functioning heart.  Found the same with 308s in 180 gn weight but had to seriously handload a slow target/match load with a 180 to get it to shoot straight in my Rem 788.  If the slug goes through the bottom of the heart it is as though the critter just stops right there and falls over with the entire bottom of the pumper gone and both lungs deflated but I would rather go looking than use 150s in the 06 due to the amount of meat damage should I not place my shots precisely.  Just my preference.

Saddlebum:  My M70s shoot much more accurately with the barrel free-floated.

PowPow:  I don't think they do that - buy barrels in bulk for two different calibers unless they both use the same twist.  I know Rem used the 1:10 twist in the 308 788s for a bit, which drove me nutz as I like the heavier slugs in the 30 bore and I found another shooter with a 1:12 twist 788 that shot the lighter wieght slugs (125-165) much more accurately than mine, no matter what I did to the loads, stock or whatever.  Sort of bummed me out as he wasn't willing to trade or sell but that ended my sporting experiences with the 308.  

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2010, 03:32:39 AM »
Quote
I have to go with Lloyd that the 180s in the 06 are heavy for whitetail and a small hole in and a small hole out is typical of 180 gn 30-06

Depends on the bullet.  Remington Core-Lokts do just fine.  I won't use a premium bullet on deer sized game.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline tbone

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2010, 03:15:26 PM »
Well,  I feel a little dumb for not figuing this out any sooner.  I have a 300 WM that shoots 3/8" 3 shot 100yd groups with 180 gr Core-lokts and a 30-06 that I struggle to hold 1 1/2" groups with 150 gr core lokts.  I will be trying 180 gr in the 30-06 next year for sure.  I also agree that free-floating the Model 70 helps.  FYI, what also helps is adjusting the trigger down to 3-4 lbs of pull.  Don't discount the comment about shooting premium bullets at whitetails.  I couldn't agree more.  Pencil holes don't make recovery any easier.  Mushrooms are where it is at. 

Offline charles p

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2374
  • Gender: Male
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2010, 03:47:21 PM »
I might be guilty of the same thing the poster above me is experiencing.  I shoot 150 grain bullets in my 06 and 308, but 180 in my 300WSM.  I've been pleased with the results of each rifle.  The most accurate long range rifle I ever owned was an old 700 in 30-06 back when the Classic was made in about six calibers per year.  That was a sweet rifle, but on year it quit grouping in spite of everything I knew to do.  Now its a Shilen match barrelled 280 Ackley and too heavy to hunt with.  Wish I had my Classic back.

To be honest, I don't shoot enough any more to know what works and what doesn't.  I live on a NPS island and the nearest club range is 1.5 hours away.  I need to shoot more.  I enjoy reloading more than shooting.

Offline Sweet 6.5

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 373
  • Gender: Male
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2010, 06:21:19 PM »

Off topic : English is my second language - what does this mean?

  Mushrooms are where it is at. 

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2010, 11:22:36 PM »
"Core-Lokt, deadliest mushroom in the woods."
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18370
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2010, 01:39:47 AM »
swampman i too am a fan of corelocks but not to the extream extent that you are. When i posted about about my having to chase around deer shot with 180 grain bullets for the most part those deer were shot with corelocks. Just about everyone i know that doesnt handload that i hunt with uses corelock ammo. When remington designed the 180 corelock they knew it would have to hold up to 300 mag velocitys and im sure they made it with a jacket a bit thicker then the 165s and 180s. Now its not that i havent seen deer killed cleanly with it. Ive actually can say that more times then not it has worked fine. But if a bullet slips through the rib cage and hits no bone even a close range they dont expand much. Its tough for a bullet manufacture to make a bullet that works over a wide range of velocitys on animals that go from a 100lbs to a 1000. Corelocks are great bullets but in an 06 I usually load only 150s and 165s and in the 308 stick to 150s only. I just dont see what using a bullet heavier then that on deer is buying you.
blue lives matter

Offline tbone

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2010, 02:49:38 AM »
I think the point is that 30 cal 180 gr Core-Lokt bullets pushed at 30-06 and 300WM velocities are a very accurate bullet.  I also agree that one bullet cant do it all.  I shot a big northern Wisconsin buck at 40 yd with a 150 gr Core-Lokt and it tipped him right over because the bullet fragmented and released all of its energy in the deer.  I would imagine that at slower velocity(300 Savage, longer distance) it may have stayed together better.  Or....shooting a 180 gr with the thicker jacket may have held together on that same shot and exited the deer. 

Offline corbanzo

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2405
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2010, 06:46:23 AM »
220's are the only bullets that I have not been able to get sub moa... and that is most likely because I never took the time to develop a good load.

I shoot 165's, because I like the velocity the trajectory they give me, and they whack stuff just as dead as a 180 does. 

My best 165 load will outshoot my best 180 load as of current. 

My best 130 load goes really really fast.   ;D
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline corbanzo

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2405
Re: 180 Grainers in the .30-06
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2010, 06:47:38 AM »
Oh yeah, and barnes TTSX, best bullet ever invented... stole me away from the nostler partition a few years ago.... never looked back. 
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."