Author Topic: 180 Grainers in the .30-06 (Read 10885 times)

Swampman · « **Reply #60 on:** January 10, 2011, 12:43:34 PM »

The .30-06 doesn't have the problems the others do, and it will do everything they will.

yooper77 · « **Reply #61 on:** January 10, 2011, 06:20:30 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on January 10, 2011, 12:43:34 PM

The .30-06 doesn't have the problems the others do, and it will do everything they will.

I have had zero problems with reloading and firing 30-06 AI, 338-06 A-SQ or 35 Whelen. To include never one Failure To Fire out of bolt action rifles or T/C Encore rifle barrels. All three I hand loaded from 30-06 Springfield brass. Yep, no problems here.

I know some have problems in Handi's FTF, but I don’t know anything about that platform.

I do not doubt the 30-06 Springfield, it’s a stellar cartridge. I praise the parent 30-06 Springfield every time I get the chance to shoot my rifles. I would be lost without it.

yooper77

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #62 on:** January 10, 2011, 07:27:16 PM »

Quote from: yooper77 on January 10, 2011, 09:49:35 AM

Quote from: Swampman on January 09, 2011, 01:19:22 PM
They both shoot the same. The .338-06 and the .30-06AI are a lot of work without any gain. The same goes for the .35 Whelen.

All of them approximate the .30-06.

No work at all, run a 30-06 Springfield brass through a 338-06 A-SQ or 30-06 AI full length die and shoot as normal.

The 338-06 A-SQ requires zero fireforming and I have harvested deer while fireforming my 30-06 AI at the same time. The truth is these cartridge actually do improved the parent case, so to say there isn’t any gain is simple untrue.

The 35 Whelen is also another great cartridge which is grateful for the 30-06 Springfield and yes improves it as well.

yooper77

Looking at a reloading page - looks like there is some gain to shooting the 338 and 35 cal in this case . Can anyone compare the holes in game and also the engery generated? Just for swampy to see.

Swampman · « **Reply #63 on:** January 10, 2011, 11:45:53 PM »

Dead is dead

yooper77 · « **Reply #64 on:** January 11, 2011, 01:38:54 PM »

Quote from: Harry Snippe on January 10, 2011, 07:27:16 PM

Quote from: yooper77 on January 10, 2011, 09:49:35 AM
Quote from: Swampman on January 09, 2011, 01:19:22 PM
They both shoot the same. The .338-06 and the .30-06AI are a lot of work without any gain. The same goes for the .35 Whelen.

All of them approximate the .30-06.

No work at all, run a 30-06 Springfield brass through a 338-06 A-SQ or 30-06 AI full length die and shoot as normal.

The 338-06 A-SQ requires zero fireforming and I have harvested deer while fireforming my 30-06 AI at the same time. The truth is these cartridge actually do improved the parent case, so to say there isn’t any gain is simple untrue.

The 35 Whelen is also another great cartridge which is grateful for the 30-06 Springfield and yes improves it as well.

yooper77
Looking at a reloading page - looks like there is some gain to shooting the 338 and 35 cal in this case . Can anyone compare the holes in game and also the engery generated? Just for swampy to see.

When it comes to raw performance these cartridges don’t lie and will live on forever.

yooper77

Swampman · « **Reply #65 on:** January 12, 2011, 11:12:30 AM »

The .338-06 has never really lived.

yooper77 · « **Reply #66 on:** January 12, 2011, 11:44:33 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on January 12, 2011, 11:12:30 AM

The .338-06 has never really lived.

It has lived many years as a wildcat, it’s not a new design it just recently received a last name A-Square. I personally know people whom have had a 338-06 rifle made back in the 1970’s. No matter how long it’s been around, I am here and so is the 338-06 A-Square and we are both here stay.

I snagged up my 338-06 (Weatherby Mark V and T/C Encore) A-Squares since I knew I could use the cheaper 30-06 Springfield brass for my hand loads. Plus, 338 caliber bullets have very high ballistic coefficients and are available in many weights.

yooper77

Brithunter · « **Reply #67 on:** January 12, 2011, 12:13:50 PM »

Now I had to laugh at this thread thank you all.

The reason well when i first started stalking , that's what Deer Hunting is called here in the UK

, I had just acquired a new .308 Brno ZKK 601 rifle and as I had read of all this terrible bloodshot meat trouble in magazines etc. No internet back then for me. I developed a mid range load using a 180 Gr Sierra Pro Hunter and Reloader 15 powder and with it I took my very first deer with it at about 90 yards. That was a Roe Doe shot in the month of Febuary and she just rolled over feet kicking in the air for a few minutes and lay still.

On approaching the doe we found some of the intenstines hanging out of a gaping 3"+ hole in the ribs. I had placed the shot a bit too high and hit the rear part o the lungs ahead of the diaphram. None of the gut was bust so I had a clean carcase. On cleaning it out properly for butchering at home and skinning it I found bits of lead core and jacket material in the tenderloins and ribs. Yep that 180 Grain Pro Hunter had blown up on the ribs of a 35lb Roe Doe. I never used those bullets for hunting again.................................. too hard

don't make me laugh.

Oh the carcase was clean and excellent eating. 35lb was the cleaned weight...i.e. guts out but head and feet still attached and yes that's a reasonable sized doe. I switched to the 165 grain Nosler ballitic Tip and Speer Hot Core bullets after that. Oh yes I believe the rifle has a 1 in 10" twist barrel.

Swampman · « **Reply #68 on:** January 12, 2011, 01:51:59 PM »

No meat damage with the Nosler BT just a nice clean .308 hole all the way through.

yooper77 · « **Reply #69 on:** January 12, 2011, 02:23:31 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on January 12, 2011, 01:51:59 PM

No meat damage with the Nosler BT just a nice clean .308 hole all the way through.

I can’t agree more. Nosler 200 grain Ballistic Tip .338 cal behind front shoulder double lung and top of heart, she rolled over and no meat damage. 338-06 A-Square was hand loaded with 30-06 Springfield once fired brass, IMR-4320 powder and Winchester large rifle primer.

yooper77

Swampman · « **Reply #70 on:** January 12, 2011, 03:19:48 PM »

I won't use premium bullets or ammo on deer size game. I throw away everything but the hams and straps anyway.

yooper77 · « **Reply #71 on:** January 12, 2011, 03:35:35 PM »

OK, so why do you waste so much meat? You don’t save the tenderloins, or front shoulders and the ribs & neck trimmings? Wanton waste means, “to intentionally waste something negligently or inappropriately.”

yooper77

PowPow · « **Reply #72 on:** January 12, 2011, 03:40:20 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on January 12, 2011, 03:19:48 PM

...I throw away everything but the hams and straps anyway.

ditto, on small deer. take a small one to the processor, and you pay $60 for an extra 10 lb of ground venison.
I share with the other predators; between us, nothing is wasted.

Swampman · « **Reply #73 on:** January 12, 2011, 03:59:22 PM »

When you can take 2 deer a day for months on end there's no point in fooling with the bones.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #74 on:** January 13, 2011, 01:24:51 AM »

i probably shoot an average of 40 deer a year and waste very little. Now i wont fool with ribs but thats about it. The rest can if nothing else be made into bugger or sausage and if i dont need it theres others who do and food banks to donate it to. If im not going to eat it i dont shoot it.

Brithunter · « **Reply #75 on:** January 13, 2011, 02:18:42 PM »

Ahhh pardon me but I thought it was an offence to waste the meat like that?

Neck = stewing meat
Shoulders = diced for frying, pasta of stew/pies
Ribs = treats for the dogs.

I bin the skin, bones and hooves oh and head if it's too small or a doe.

Now how much meat would the Swampman get off this carcase doing it as he does? :-

Yes that's a full grown Roe Buck weighing about 45lbs and he tasted wonderful thank you

. Oh shot with a Federal Fusion 150 grain .270 Winchester in a BSA Majestic of 59 vintage.

243dave · « **Reply #76 on:** January 13, 2011, 04:51:43 PM »

You could skin that one out and put it between two pieces of bread and eat as a sandwich.

Sweet 6.5 · « **Reply #77 on:** January 14, 2011, 06:00:58 AM »

Quote from: 243dave on January 13, 2011, 04:51:43 PM

You could skin that one out and put it between two pieces of bread and eat as a sandwich.

I am sure the head of the Eland weighs more than that!!

scootrd · « **Reply #78 on:** January 14, 2011, 09:59:50 AM »

When I use to hunt with my old -06 , before I retired her for a lighter More compact rig.

Now days it seems the younger crowd need more fancy smanshy loads etc... Course the gun rags the kids are reading and take to heart don't help the situation I guess.

For me
I let my rifle and the type of terrain I was hunting choose the best load. In my case for years my mod 70 meat and potatoes load was Rem. Core Lokt 150 or 165 gr.

I have never had the need to use 180 gr's for Whitetails .

With most of my deer were taken between 50 - 150 yards, the 150 gr or 165gr's suited my needs. The provided good trajectory , great expansion/Mushroom, and high weight retention, and always seemed to cover any terrain situation I found myself hunting within the Northeast. One could even probably argue the case the 165's were overkill in the terrain I found myself mostly hunting.

Brithunter · « **Reply #79 on:** January 15, 2011, 02:53:39 AM »

Hmmm let me see about these comments:-

Quote

You could skin that one out and put it between two pieces of bread and eat as a sandwich.

So your telling me that you eat at least 25lbs of prime meat in one go

. Oh and yes Roe Deer venison is superb and much finer than Whitetail and yes I have eaten and do like Whitetail but it does not compare with Roe. Roe meat is in high demand in resturants through out Europe.

Quote

I am sure the head of the Eland weighs more than that!!

No arguement from me on that but your point?

Roe Deer are an ancient species in fact they don't seem to have evolved much in thousands of years. When digging the tunnel for the new link of the Underground in London they discovered a fossilised Roe skeleton and it's almost the same as today's Roe deer:-

Roe Doe.
Now these Muntjac deer are evne smaller at about 25lbs weight:-

Yes a fully mature Muntjac Buck

now a Doe and the meat is very fine eating. Almost no fat and finely grained but if not careful when cooking it can dry out. Oh yes and the vital zone of a Muntjac is about 3" Roe about 5"

We do of course have Fallow Deer. This youngster should have been suckling still but Mum was killed by a car and none of the others seemed to want to adopt hime:_

So sadly I shot him so he wouldn't starve.

Swampman · « **Reply #80 on:** January 15, 2011, 03:36:40 AM »

"Getting The Most Out Of Your .30-06" and "Approximating the .30-06" by John Barsness sould be required reading for any hunter/shooter. Those bite size deer are pretty.

243dave · « **Reply #81 on:** January 15, 2011, 06:17:22 PM »

Brithunter, We were just kidding with you, but I can come close to eat'n 25lbs of food.

Those deer might not be big but they are a fine looking deer that most here(including me) would love to get the chance to hunt. What kind of rifle do you have there with the roe doe ?? Just don't say a 30-06 loaded with 180gr bullets !!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #82 on:** January 16, 2011, 12:59:06 AM »

Im another thats not a fan of 180s in an o6. I personaly feel that 165s and even 150s are all thats needed for anything a guy would hunt with an 06. Ive probably seen more deer shot that needed long tracking with the 06 using 180s then all the other calibers combined. Alot of that is no doubt due to the fact that half the people in the area i hunt hunt with an 06 using 180s but ive just seen to many times where a 180, even a cheap cup and core bullet didnt expand and pensiled through an animal doing very little damage. If im hunting an animal that i feel a 180 is nessisary id have a 300 mag in my hands. Show me an animal that walked away from something like a 150 partition at 2900 fps and ill show you an animal that was shot by a poor shooter.

Quote from: scootrd on January 14, 2011, 09:59:50 AM

When I use to hunt with my old -06 , before I retired her for a lighter More compact rig.

Now days it seems the younger crowd need more fancy smanshy loads etc... Course the gun rags the kids are reading and take to heart don't help the situation I guess.

For me
I let my rifle and the type of terrain I was hunting choose the best load. In my case for years my mod 70 meat and potatoes load was Rem. Core Lokt 150 or 165 gr.

I have never had the need to use 180 gr's for Whitetails .

With most of my deer were taken between 50 - 150 yards, the 150 gr or 165gr's suited my needs. The provided good trajectory , great expansion/Mushroom, and high weight retention, and always seemed to cover any terrain situation I found myself hunting within the Northeast. One could even probably argue the case the 165's were overkill in the terrain I found myself mostly hunting.

Swampman · « **Reply #83 on:** January 16, 2011, 02:12:40 AM »

If they needed to be tracked they were shot in the wrong place. If shot properly they don't go anywhere because they can't. Heart/lung shots are for bowhunters, and folks that use rifles that are too small for the task.

Blackwell bikes · « **Reply #84 on:** January 16, 2011, 02:31:58 AM »

a 150 or a 180 in the wrong spot will have the same result.

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #85 on:** January 16, 2011, 07:18:55 AM »

I use the 180 gr bullet in the 'o6 not because I need the weight for deer , rather I hunt bear and moose also, and want to leave the gun loaded for one bullet weight for all game . I might use a cup and core bullet for the deer and a premium for bear and moose . But there are place's where I hunt where the hunting seasons over lap and thus I stay with the same ammo .
I will try for that heart lung shot on a deer since a shoulder shot can ruin a lot of the shoulder ( wanting more than the rear hams and back straps thank you ) We are allowed one deer !!.
With bear wearing some winter fat , I have seen them walk away from a 270 and live , so a heavy pill with hopful pass through gets the nod , and a good shot placed with a 180 gr. always gets the job done on a moose .

The old timers laugh at us with our Mag something rifles , with lightweight speedy bullets . They always got the game they shot at . Maybe they needed to be a bit closer , but when the 303 Savage , the 35 Rem, and 30/30 barked - there was a animal down ..To them a slow heavy pill worked ever time .

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #86 on:** January 16, 2011, 01:05:17 PM »

harrry under those circumstances id probably do the same.

Brithunter · « **Reply #87 on:** January 16, 2011, 02:51:17 PM »

Quote from: 243dave on January 15, 2011, 06:17:22 PM

Brithunter, We were just kidding with you, but I can come close to eat'n 25lbs of food. Those deer might not be big but they are a fine looking deer that most here(including me) would love to get the chance to hunt. What kind of rifle do you have there with the roe doe ?? Just don't say a 30-06 loaded with 180gr bullets !!

.270 Winchester chambered BSA Majestic Feathwerweight Deluxe using 150 Grn Federal Fusion factory ammunition. The scope is a German Lisenfeld Jaguar 3-9x42.

scootrd · « **Reply #88 on:** January 18, 2011, 03:55:16 AM »

Quote from: Brithunter on January 16, 2011, 02:51:17 PM

.270 Winchester chambered BSA Majestic Feathwerweight Deluxe using 150 Grn Federal Fusion factory ammunition. The scope is a German Lisenfeld Jaguar 3-9x42.

What is the weight of that scope?

thumbcocker · « **Reply #89 on:** January 18, 2011, 02:18:46 PM »

I've used 180's in an '06 for years. Kills 'em dead. Have had more long tracking jobs with 150's than anything else. I use 180's in my 308 too.