Author Topic: weekend deer hunt lost a deer (Read 2052 times)

ted · « **on:** November 14, 2010, 02:51:48 PM »

First weekend of gun season in KY. Hunting with my 357 B&D/158 grain hornady xp/fp.. Made sure sighted in last weekend. Saw nice doe early on facing me directly at about 100 yards and lined up crosshairs and waited for trigger to go off. Shot broke cleanly and I saw deer jerk and slowly walk away. I waited 45 minutes and then started tracking. Found a blood trail about 50 yards away and it was just an occasional drop but, was consistently about 10-12 yards apart. Deer went into heavy woods and spend a total of 4 hours looking for/refinding blood trail and tracked it to edge of property and couldn't look any further. I exhausted myself looking for deer and couldn't search any more. I shot a deer last year from almost same spot (using same gun/load) and deer was slightly quartering and bullet went into shoulder and didn't exit but, deer went only 40 yards before expiring. Feel very bad couldn't find deer/look any more. Has anyone had any experience shooting a deer directly facing you? I put crosshairs in middle of chest. I am certainly humble enough to say I certainly could have not done a good shot but, it broke very cleanly. Is a direct frontal shot on a deer tuffer for the bullet to penetrate due to more breastbone,etc? I am relatively new to deer hunting as last year was my first deer and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

highwayman · « **Reply #1 on:** November 14, 2010, 04:49:54 PM »

sorry you could not find your deer. i have never liked a frontal shot. i have seen deer shot with a high power rifle and were never found for some reason.

Mohawk · « **Reply #2 on:** November 14, 2010, 04:55:03 PM »

Most of the blood is probsbly internal. Where EXACTLY did you hit? I would start a big circle.

ted · « **Reply #3 on:** November 15, 2010, 01:27:01 AM »

I had the cross hairs on the middle of the chest and that's where the shot broke so I am pretty sure I hit someehre in that area. 2 friends I hunt with helped me find blood trail and we where able to trace it up a dry creek and then the deer turned right and followed a trail that went off the property. Didn't know the people on the land and we knew people where hunting in that area due to gunshots heard earlier. I will try to hunt one more time before season is over.

jhalcott · « **Reply #4 on:** November 15, 2010, 07:11:57 AM »

depending on your load, the velocity MAY have been as high as 2100 fps at the muzzle. The biggest problem with a frontal shot is the size of the target. There are no lungs to hit and a slightly high hit will go into the guts if the penetration is there.. I USUALLY aim for the center of the neck on such shots as the these. I do not wait to get a second shot into the animal when it falls. I hit a tree branch that moved my bullet from shoulder to paunch once. That deer went over a mile and was shot by another hunter. Made me angry at myself for NOT seeing the branch. Sorry for your loss though!

BBF · « **Reply #5 on:** November 16, 2010, 12:56:23 PM »

Once I feed that useless pot roast of a dog my wife has to a 'gator I'm getting the smallest hunting breed dog I can find. Basically a nose on four legs.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #6 on:** November 16, 2010, 01:32:32 PM »

Sorry to hear about the loss. Dead on, center chest shots are really never a good idea, especially with a handgun at 100 yards. Very limited kill area. Even though the sight picture looked good, you may have pulled it slightly. If you did, you may have struck a shoulder. I know its hard, but sometimes its better to be patient, and wait for a good broadside, or angling away heart / lung shot, especially with a handgun. That said, if you hunt often enough, sooner or later, you are going to flub a shot. The key to minimizing that possibility is to be critical when you pick your shots.

Larry

jdinil · « **Reply #7 on:** November 16, 2010, 01:44:28 PM »

A 100 yard frontal shot is WAY out of a .357's league. A .357 is a 50 yard proposition under the very best conditions.

ted · « **Reply #8 on:** November 16, 2010, 02:30:59 PM »

   Guys,
   Thanks for all the responses.As far as a .357 being a 50 yard shot at best, the round I used is a 357 Bain and Davis. A 44 magnum necked down to .357. I use a T/C with a 12" barrel and the load is 24.6 grains imr 296 with the hornady 158 grain xp/fp. It chronies at 2148 fps (5 shot average). The bullet is still going close to 2000 fps at 100 yards. I shot a deer last year from within 20 feet of the same spot as this year and that deer went only about 40 yards before expiring. The difference was that that deer was facing me slightly quartering to the right. That bullet entered front shoulder and went through middle of deer, not exiting. I will definitely not shoot a shot with the deer facing me directly like this again. I will look for the more traditional broadside shot.
  The friends I hunt with helped me track it and we were eventually able to track the blood trail to were it went off the property and couldn't track anymore. The blood was only a small drop or two about every 10-20 yards and this went on for at least 800 yards so it became obvious to me that I did not shoot the deer in the right spot as it would have not gone that far.

hillbill · « **Reply #9 on:** November 16, 2010, 02:41:57 PM »

a frontal shot is a tuff shot for any bullet.ill only take one on a animal i really want and then only with a gun i know can do the job.my recent experience is two large buks shot frontal but slightly qaurtering away, with a 06 loaded at almost max load with 150 grn hornadys that ive had good luck with.neither bullet exited or left much blood trail, but both deer expired within 30 yrds.the bullets went thru about 2.5 foot of deer and lodged under the hide on the opposite side.hence no blood.and thats with a 06.another reason i dont like them is that with proper penetration they are likely to enter the guts and thats always a mess.from now on if i take them it will be with a higher hold to hit the spine prob.if its yur only shot try a little higher hold and try to shock the spine.

Mohawk · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2010, 02:49:31 PM »

Agree with HillBill. I would aim for the center of the Scapula... nerve bundle behind it but only as last resort. Broadside double lung is the trick.

DANNY-L · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2010, 12:27:37 PM »

Even with a rifle I would have waited for a broadside shot,or close to it.

tripper · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2010, 10:03:08 AM »

The trouble with a frontal shot is that a deer has a great deal of tallow (fat) in the chest area that will plugg up the wound chanle in short order causing most bleeding to be internal. If your shot was off to one side or the other you most likely only got one lung and they can go a long ways like that.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2010, 12:54:34 AM »

My first answer would be that *** happens. Shoot enough deer and your going to loose one. My second answer would be that the bullet you used wasnt designed for the velocity your shooting it at and the front of the rib cage may have stopped it. Only thing that makes me wonder is that it was at a 100 yards and the velocity should have came down some but im sure you were still hitting it at at least 1500 fps and thats still to fast for an xtp. third answer would be that even though you thought your sights were perfect a 100 yard handgun shot is a LONG shot and its possible you hit low in the brisket and didnt hit anything vital. One thing ive learned handgun hunting is a handgun isnt a rifle and marginal shots are just that. Anymore i have patients and wait for a broadside lung or sholder shot or let the deer walk away.

Camba · « **Reply #14 on:** December 05, 2010, 07:23:26 PM »

Don't forget the parabola trajectory of the bullet. You could had hit the intended spot you aimed at but the bullet accelerated its drop from the parabola/sudden velocity loss effect of the impact and just like Lloyd said; it may had ended up as a brisket shot.

Camba

Mikey · « **Reply #15 on:** December 06, 2010, 01:02:21 AM »

Ted: sorry about your loss but ____ happens. The 357 B&D is more than adequate for Whitetail at 100 yds but at that range your 158 gn xp or whatever may have hit dead on but in the downward angle of its trajectory may have deformed and skidded off the chest bone without causing much damge or reaching the vitals.

Dead on chest shots at 100 yds are tough to make on small targets and Whitetail doe are small targets at that range. Your bullet may also not have been up to snuff, or to your expectations, as hp bullets may often fill up with pelt and tissue and not expand or they may expand too soon on the thcik hide and not get into the vital areas. Soft nose bullets may deform and veer off track and nto get inot the vital areas. Broadside shots surely give you the largest target area and allow easier access to the vital areas.

Also, I might consider using another bullet. I enjoy the increased velocity of the 357 mag from a 20" rifle barrel - it brings it to about what the 357 B&D clocks at, but I use a hardcast or cast gas-checked swc slug for my field work and although it may act like a rifle bullet at 100 yds I have seen these slugs shoot comepletely through Whitetail at 50 yds from a 4" revolver and they do not go far. I would expect the same reaction from the same slug from a rifle.

ted · « **Reply #16 on:** December 06, 2010, 02:08:04 PM »

Mikey,
I used the xp/fp bullets (not the xp/hp) which is rated fro 1800 fps from hornady. According to the ballistic calculator I use the bullet is doing a little over 1700 fps at 100 yards so is within its range. I shot a deer from almost identical spot last year and the only difference was that deer was quartering slightly facing me. Bullet went in throught front of shoulder and ended up in middle of deer. No exit. Deer went 40 yards. I use the xp/fp because they are insanely accurate out of this custom bulberry barrel at 100 yards.
I did go out one more day (took a day off work as as I needed a break!) but, after 10 hours of sitting patiently, didn't see one deer! I have talked to several hunters plus read all the responses and chalk this year's hunt up to I was humbled again and learned a little more about shot placement. Am already planning for next year! A family member did give me part of their venison so I am not going to have total withdrawal pangs this winter!

shot1 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 06, 2010, 03:59:26 PM »

I have killed way over 200 deer in my life and I have taken about every shot except a Texas heart shot (up the butt). You did not hit that deer in the center of the chest or it would not have gone over 50 or so yards. If you hit the center of the chest you will pop the lungs and they don't go far. The most common miss the vitals shot from head on chest shot is hitting too low on the chest. It just tares up the brisket meat and does not hit the vitals. That is what you may have done. For chest on shots always aim high at about where the neck meets the chest. You may want to go to the 180 gr XTP bullet. I have had good success with it in a 10" contender 357 mag. You live and learn from your mistakes hopefully.

Mohawk · « **Reply #18 on:** December 08, 2010, 01:01:01 PM »

By a slim chance the bullet may have slipped through and didn't hit anything vital. Even a liver hit would have yielded the deer. Intestines probably not. Just remember lungs, lungs, lungs.... Broadside that is a 10X6" target easily hittable with most firearms. That's actually the only shot I will attempt anymore. Just my thoughts.....

ShootnStr8 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 09, 2010, 10:21:42 AM »

Ted,

I did the exactly same thing last month with a Contender chamber for the 7-30 Waters. I never recovered the buck after a long night time search. It bothered the heck out of me. I couldn't figure out how I missed nor why the deer wasn't dead in short order.

I wish I would have had the wisdom contained in these posts before taking the shot. I know better now thanks to your sharing your experience.

Blessings!

ShootnStr8

bcraig · « **Reply #20 on:** December 10, 2010, 04:41:19 AM »

Have had bad results with frontal shots so I dont take them anymore .I would take exception to the post that says that deer will not run over 50 yards or so with a lung shot! I have had deer run 150 yards with their heart completely destroyed and also lung shot deer do the same. Dont buy into the notion that as long as you hit a deer right that they will always drop or they will always leave a blood trail.Sometimes they will and sometimes they wont.ITS not always possible but if i can I will try to shoot deer in the shoulder,large target and deer are a lot easier to find ,again MOST OF THE TIME THEY WILL DROP RIGHT THERE. The idead that deer ALWAYS do anything or NEVER do anything is absurd.I have seen deer hit with one buckshot in the guts go belly up instantly and seen deer with heart and lungs destroyed go 150 yards or more.Remember if the CNS is not hit or the running gear taken out that it doesn,t take a deer long to run 150 yards. Hes dead on his feet just dont know it !
Also as Loyd said if you shoot enough deer you are gonna lose one,sad and its a bad feeling when you do but sounds like you did all you could to recover deer and although its not what we want or strive for remember that something will get use of the animal,maybe a coyote or straydog ,possum or even someone else found it.

Mohawk · « **Reply #21 on:** December 10, 2010, 12:20:18 PM »

I don't consider diatance traveled as much as time on their feet. I shot a spike through the liver with a .243 and he just stood there for about 15 or 20 seconds and simply fell over. He could have covered maybe a 100 yds or so in that amount of time easy. But as was stated, taking out the front legs is a good benefit of the broadside shot. You get the lungs and take away the front wheels. Plus, there is no heavy bone provided you don't hit high....just lean muscle.

hunt-m-up · « **Reply #22 on:** December 10, 2010, 05:15:39 PM »

After reading your story, I just thought you probably hit muscle or fatty tissue, no major bones broken or nothing pumping blood was hit so pretty hard to recover, but will leave blood every once in a while. I'm not as proficient as some with a handgun, but I would question that light 158 XTP on a frontal shot. Muzzleloader at 250-300+ grains, .270 rifle on up, or shotgun slug I would be more confident and wouldn't hesitate to put one in either end at 100yds. I agree with others that it's pretty hard to guess what they'll do when hit. I shot a doe a little far back with an arrow that literally had to crawl up under the blowdown we found her under.