Hunting with the .45ACP?

[300winman]

Its amazing we managed to feed ourselves before the invention of the magnum round. 

I'm not one to promote big magnums as the only way to hunt, but I would say most people knew their limitations back in the day, even so, there were probably more deer lost to injury.........Truth is, I hunt my 72 acres in lower Michigan every year, where only shotgun or pistol are allowed.   Many people lose deer every season, with big cal slugs and sabots.  My friend has lost 1 deer, and we tracked another 600 yards(single lung hit) shot with a 45 cal muzzle-loader(2000 fps mv).  And I've heard many stories of this kind.  Poor marksmanship can probably contribute to some.  Believe it or not, deer do require a good hit with an adequate weapon.  If hunters with more than adequate weapons are losing deer, why would you go smaller??  I'd hate to lose a 300lbs, 14-point, because I didn't take the big gun.   And we owe it to the animal to take as cleanly as possible.  If you have to question adequacy of a weapon, then you probably already know the answer...

[coyotejoe]

I've worked a bit as a hunting guide in Colorado and have talked with lots of guides who have seen more animals killed than I ever will. I always ask this one question "have you ever seen any well placed bullet fail to kill quickly?" The answer is always, "well, no, but I've seen a lot of bad shots".
 It takes very little to kill a deer with a well placed shot and no amount of power can even slightly compensate for poor shot placement. But extra power can contribute to poor shot placement. If a person has even a slight tendency to occasionally flinch or jerk the trigger that will come out when game is in the sights. No body will shoot well with a gun which is actually painful to fire.

[Redhawk1]

No body will shoot well with a gun which is actually painful to fire.

I don't agree with this at all. I shoot my 500 Mag very well, with heavy loads it can be a little painful, but I am still every bit as accurate with it..  I must be, as every thing I have shot with it, has died from a well placed shot.

My problem is people using guns they don't shoot well, no matter the recoil..

[Casull]

Redhawk, he should have said almost "no body will shoot well with a gun which is actually painful to fire".  If you never miss, you obviously are the exception.

[SHOOTALL]

How many shoot IMHSA or other big gun shoots ? Maybe he should have said a few  don't shoot well .....

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk, he should have said almost "no body will shoot well with a gun which is actually painful to fire".  If you never miss, you obviously are the exception.

I have a lot of buddies that shoot heavy recoiling gun's and they shoot them very accurately. I know some guys that can't shot any handguns work a crap, even ones with light recoil. It is all in the persons ability, and dedication to practice and ability. Also ones ability to handle heavy recoiling handguns.

I see way to many guys that think that can handgun hunt just because they have a gun that is meant for handgun hunting. What they fail to realize is, they personally lack the proper training and initiative to actually shoot a handgun well enough to make a clean and well placed shot for the kill.

The 45 ACP in the hands of a very good marksman would be a deadly round for deer in the proper range of the round.  Also having the correct sight to achieve consistent accuracy. Sometimes it's not the cartridge that is the problem, but the ability of the shooter.

As far as me missing with my handguns, I always make sure of my shot, and know my limitations, something else others may not do. 

[teamnelson]

How many shoot IMHSA or other big gun shoots ? Maybe he should have said a few  don't shoot well .....

I see way to many guys that think that can handgun hunt just because they have a gun that is meant for handgun hunting. What they fail to realize is, they personally lack the proper training and initiative to actually shoot a handgun well enough to make a clean and well placed shot for the kill.

I would say most people knew their limitations back in the day

Hunting (regardless of weapon) is all about knowing your limitations, and the only way you can know that is if you use that weapon often at different ranges. Doesn't matter handgun, rifle, shotgun, stickbow, sharp stick. IHMSA offers just the event for handgun hunting, hitting a steel pig at 200 yds consistently with a round that'll drop it flat will tell you an awful lot about your limitations. I highly recommend the old school, shoot what you got approach, as I shoot unsupported with my "hunting" revolvers. I've been to a couple private ranges where they'd set up steel plates at different ranges to not only test shot placement, but also effectiveness of the round at that range.

Here's a good independent study of terminal ballistics of the .45 ACP http://stevespages.com/page8f45acp.html at 20'.

[buck460XVR]

The 45 ACP in the hands of a very good marksman would be a deadly round for deer in the proper range of the round. 

This pretty well sums up this whole thread. Substitute  any other caliber where it says .45ACP and it would sum up virtually any thread about what size caliber for deer. Big or small, you still need to hit 'em right and you need to use an appropriate bullet. Other than what's legal in your state, the rest is just a matter of preference. Knowing your own limitations with the firearm you choose is paramount. Not knowing or not heeding your limitations is foolish and ends up with unnecessarily wounded game. The place to practice, learn these limitations  and get proficient is the range, not the woods while actively hunting.

[Mohawk]

Definately all about limitations. I'll use my revolvers anytime at 25 yds but over that I don't feel comfy enough with the sight picture. That's just me. Plus I hunt from the same stand every year and my environment is somewhat controlled. I only have 4 shooting lanes. They range from 15-25 yds. The treestand doubles as a bow blind.

[jlwilliams]

  While you can hunt with the 45acp at short distances, it's not optimum.  On the other hand, the 45acp is balisticly similar to some black powder loads.  Maybe not as hot as some of the new inlines can produce, but as good as was available to many generations who hunted with what was available.  Today, there are better options available, but the 45acp will do it's part if you do yours.

[stubshaft]

Used to use a S&W mdl 25 with 6" barrel to hunt hogs.  Shot the old speer "flying ashtray" HP ahead of 5.2 red dot.  Most shots were under 35yds but never had to shoot twice.

[300winman]

In the right hands, of a responsible hunter, taking ideal shots, yes it would work.   But to promote it to a hunting caliber, all we are asking for is the irresponsible bunch,  to go buy a 1911 for deer season and empty an 8-round clip at a deer at 100 yds.  That is the sad reality, there are few  "irresponsible people" in our sport.....I just don't want that group to get anymore bright ideas.....

[stubshaft]

In the right hands, of a responsible hunter, taking ideal shots, yes it would work.   But to promote it to a hunting caliber, all we are asking for is the irresponsible bunch,  to go buy a 1911 for deer season and empty an 8-round clip at a deer at 100 yds.  That is the sad reality, there are alot of idiots in our sport.....I just don't want that group to get anymore bright ideas.....

The key word is responsible winman.  I agree that there are too many nimrods that punch paper at the range and THINK that they can kill an animal at whatver range they can shoot at.

[300winman]

I agree stubshaft.   I just don't see the 45 acp as an ideal cartridge for deer hunting.  But if someone is ok with the limitations, and sticks to them, then to each his own......


BTW, I changed my post to "irresponsible people", if they hunt, they can't be all bad..........My PC moment of the year.

[coyotejoe]

And a lot of people do really fine shooting from the keyboard rest.

[teamnelson]

And a lot of people do really fine shooting from the keyboard rest.

 

[Redhawk1]

And a lot of people do really fine shooting from the keyboard rest.

You should know better than anyone! 

[Tom W.]

Ohhhhh!

[Mohawk]

Keyboard as a rest...... LOL. I wouldn't be so quick to doubt the family on this board.... A lot of members have knowledge and experiences beyond refute.  That is at least my take. Wounding deer? I have yet to see or hear of one taking any kind of projectile, of any size, blowing through both lungs and having this long terrible dramatic death. It would be a physiological anomolly. If I did my natural reaction would be the shot was not straight and the caliber or bullet was blamed instead of poor marksmanship or poor judgement.

[Redhawk1]

Keyboard as a rest...... LOL. I wouldn't be so quick to doubt the family on this board.... A lot of members have knowledge and experiences beyond refute.  That is at least my take. Wounding deer? I have yet to see or hear of one taking any kind of projectile, of any size, blowing through both lungs and having this long terrible dramatic death. It would be a physiological anomolly. If I did my natural reaction would be the shot was not straight and the caliber or bullet was blamed instead of poor marksmanship or poor judgement.

Mohawk, I have to agree.. A lot of the guys here a really decent people. There are a bunch of guys with a wealth of knowledge and actual experience.. Then you have a few that do nothing but troll just to stir the pot. Those are the guys we, and this site could do without..  But for the most part, I get along with most of the guys here, and I try to give people honest feedback, and from my actual experience, not what I read or heard. In the 35 years of actual handgun hunting I have done, and the amount of time I sent with just about every handgun round out there at the shooting range, I would say I have some experience. My trophy rooms, and video's attests to my experience with handgun hunting..  I don't claim to be an expert, but I do have a lot of experience, as I know a lot of other guys here do as well.  You will know who the trolls are, they stand out like a turd in a punch bowl! 

[coyotejoe]

Redhawk, I did correct your oversight on another post and didn't even address you my name. How does that make me a troll and why do you take every post I've made since then as being directed to you? If you think it takes a "know it all" to correct your mistakes then you must have a mighty high opinion of yourself. Grow up and get over it.

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk, I did correct your oversight on another post and didn't even address you my name. How does that make me a troll and why do you take every post I've made since then as being directed to you? If you think it takes a "know it all" to correct your mistakes then you must have a mighty high opinion of yourself. Grow up and get over it.

I did not make a mistake, you just felt the need to bloviate!

Wow!!!! I must of struck a nerve..haha..    Did I call you out by name as a troll, or do you just feel guilty..   

Oh I do have a high opinion of myself, much more then I do of you.. 

[1911crazy]

I do use the 1911/45acp for a quick run at night to the privy incase the yotes comeby which they have scratched onetime at the door already. But to go out in the wilds into the national forest deer hunting with 500ft lbs of less i'm not so sure. Elmer Keith and the other early handgun guru's have killed every north american game with the 357mag, 41mag and the 44mag.  Elmer didn't like the auto's (i read that somewhere).  To make a shot with a 45acp it has to be under 50yds right? Now i do trust my 44mag and have gone out hunting deer with it at times.  But were talking around 800ft lbs of power.    CZY but not that CZY

[greg bayes]

Hey all, I have killed 5 whitetail deer with a Mk. 4 S-70 -- 1911 COLT  using Winchester first generation BLACK TALON 230 h pt. none went over 30 feet or so.  Bullet placement is top priority. all mine were shoulder shots. I wont shoot if not a shoulder shot with any weapon. I practice a lot all year long. None were over 50 yds. The areas i hunt a long shot is about 60 to 75 yds. with a rifle!!  So yes a 45ACP. will work as long as you PRACTICE ALOT !!!!    Good to talk to you-all  Greg Bayes from Kentucky.

[coyotejoe]

Redhawk, I did correct your oversight on another post and didn't even address you my name. How does that make me a troll and why do you take every post I've made since then as being directed to you? If you think it takes a "know it all" to correct your mistakes then you must have a mighty high opinion of yourself. Grow up and get over it.

I did not make a mistake, you just felt the need to bloviate!

Wow!!!! I must of struck a nerve..haha..    Did I call you out by name as a troll, or do you just feel guilty..   

Oh I do have a high opinion of myself, much more then I do of you.. 

Well actually yes, you have called me a troll more than once, but I do humbly beseech your pardon, I had not realized this site had changed hands and is now Redhawk Outdoors. I hadn't known you were the owner nor even a moderator but since you obviously feel it is your duty to run off anyone who disagrees with you in any detail I guess this must be your site. Funny though, I had nearly 2000 posts on the old Greybeard Outdoors and no ever took offense until a few days ago when you got your feathers ruffled and started screaming "troll, troll". If you would like others to share your high opinion of yourself you might want to put some effort in to learning the art of civil discourse.

[Mikey]

Gentlemen:  civil discourse goes like this - cool it.  Period.  Moderator.

[300winman]

Hey all, I have killed 5 whitetail deer with a Mk. 4 S-70 -- 1911 COLT  using Winchester first generation BLACK TALON 230 h pt. none went over 30 feet or so.  Bullet placement is top priority. all mine were shoulder shots. I wont shoot if not a shoulder shot with any weapon. I practice a lot all year long. None were over 50 yds. The areas i hunt a long shot is about 60 to 75 yds. with a rifle!!  So yes a 45ACP. will work as long as you PRACTICE ALOT !!!!    Good to talk to you-all  Greg Bayes from Kentucky.

I don't want ruffle your feathers or anything, but I would disagree.  Black Talons are fast expanding self-defense rounds, and you want to shoot a deer in the shoulder with one??  With a 45 ACP that is already limited in range and energy??  I just don't see that as sound advice.

But I do agree with practice alot......something most hunters should do.

[ole 5 hole group]

The 230 grain black talon is a pretty serious round - it provides plenty of pentration and on deer sized animals, I wouldn't have a problem with it.   

[Redhawk1]

The 230 grain black talon is a pretty serious round - it provides plenty of pentration and on deer sized animals, I wouldn't have a problem with it.   

I would have to agree, I have seen a few deer killed with a 45 ACP using a speer HP.. Shot placement was great, and the deer was stone cold dead.  Those black talon are some good bullets.

[SHOOTALL]

Black t and other high preformance bullets are made to expand and also go deer into the target ( IT WAS WHY THEY WERE MADE TO PASS FBI TEST ) . That said why is a bullet of same construction and profile and speed out of a SAA Colt revolver with a 5.5 bbl better on deer than out of a 5 inch bbl 1911 ? just asking .