bo says the godless ones won't be groped like Americans.

[Cabin4]

I was told by TSA on Friday Oct 29th at the San Francisco airport that I was the first person to be pulled over for the new screening program. The TSA guy explained the process to me for about 5min everything he was going to do. It was pretty intrusive and I did not like it at all and told him that. I was on my way to Hong Kong.

I'm on the watch list so not surprised. The new HS Fusion centers feed TSA suspect lists. I travel allot (domestic and international) and almost always get the extra screening process (whatever it is at the time). But this was the first for me of the new sexual assault and porn screening. I recently came back from Idaho and flew in/out with my guns checked-in. I went through enough with that and it was a domestic flight. Imagine the next time I take my guns for a hunting trip with the new screening....... They will likely want to perform surgery on me.

[ironglow]

  Can't blame powderman...
  BHO has already given Muslims a pass on his Obamacare...they can refuse to participate..something the rest of us are lined up to go to jail for, if we were to do the same thing.
  
  His "justice dept" refused to prosecute black Muslims in a clear cut, slam dunk case of voter intimidation and a civil rights violation.
  
 With his history, for him to grant special dispensation to Muslims when flying, would not be far out of line with his normal practices.

  In his books he said he preferred Muslim company, would go to bat for Muslims "were the political winds to change" !

   ...All this while he sought out Marxist professors.

  Every chance he gets, he bows to Muslim dictators...
  
  Seems perfectly natural to suspect he may give Muslims yet another big break over the rest of us.   Just look his record...


   Remember..those who don't learn from history ...may well be doomed to repeat it.

[wreckhog]

He's not Lying He is simply repeating what he read
This is how the article was Printed I saw it earlier today
The header said Obama
If you look at my pasted article
They are telling their people to use Religion to refuse it
I would bet.....  a law suite to follow too test the amendment

Tommyt

No, he is lying if he does not retract his lie.

Cavity searching supermodels. Woo hooo.

[dukkillr]

Until you have stepped onto the plane, they have no jurisdiction.  Therefore, if you do not give consent, a crime is in commission.  A statute will trump a policy any day, and twice on Sunday.

Uh, no.  What statute will you cite to make the argument that they cannot screen people for safety prior to physically boarding a plane?  Or more specifically, why do they have any authority at all then?  When you buy a ticket you agree to submit yourself to examination for the purpose of public safety.  The location of that examination is not relevant.  Much like when you buy a hunting license you agree to allow a game warden to inspect you regardless of probable cause.

A statute only trumps anything when that statute exists, and you applying it correctly.

If you don't like the procedure don't take a flight, it's capitalism.  But this idea of pressing for felony charges is misguided.

[powderman]

wreck. I have nothing to appologize for. You think the tsa is going to tell you the truth over the phone, especially when they have no idea who you are or who you represent??? I don't. I know of too many people that fly that have told of the indignation of being targeted for search while the muslims go untouched. The muslims are the reason for all this extra garbage, they certainly should go through it if Americans are forced to.  POWDERMAN. 

[yellowtail3]

when you step onto the airplane, you enter a zone of great legal hazard. Piss off a flight attendant, and you may find yourself jacked up with a 20-year felony. You don't have to hit her, cuss her, sass her, refuse to follow directions, or anything specific... if she says you interfered with her ability to perform her duties ("I was scared!") you're screwed.

[mirage1988]

I would like to see a picture of all the bombs that tsa has found on Americans trying to board planes.

 The DNR has their "wall-of-shame" display of poaching busts- where is the tsa "wall-wall-of-shame" (other than a picture of janet napoleon)?

[Cabin4]

The TSA wall of shame would be filled with tooth paste, after shave lotion, skin cream, ect.

[powderman]

I would like to see a picture of all the bombs that tsa has found on Americans trying to board planes.



MIRAGE. That would probably fill several large warehouses and there isn't a camera made with a lense big enough that would be able to take pics of all those bombs. It's sickening what Americans must endure because of the godless ones. POWDERMAN. 

[mirage1988]

Everyone should carry a cucumber in their pockets for the screeners to find That would add a bit of excitement to every ones day, no?

[scootrd]

Just an observation  right or wrong)
From my vantage point the TSA are darned if they do and darned if they don't . If they lax up and something does happen , then we will all scream why didn't they do enough. If they crack down , then we all scream invasion of privacy etc..

Also , I know this isn't PC But I want racial profiling at airports.  I know , unpopular stance.
However if the IRA were doing the bombings I would expect that I would and should be pulled aside and double checked
or anyone with the name Omalley Oleary etc for the good of all boarding the plane..  And I wouldn't complain if I matched a certain profile.

If Sudanese rebels were doing the bombings , A darker skinned American should expect to be inconvenienced for the good of all , and understand they should and will be scrutinized harder before boarding (poor examples but you get my point ).  It may not be right , buts it's the way it is. And American's with olive type complexions or those that racially fit a specific profile should expect more scrutiny.  Unfortunately these are the times we live in.

If we don't like it we should not fly.

In a very poor analogy , I kind of equate the TSA to the Meter maid everyone loves to hate. She tickets us for parking in front of a hydrant and we all scream lighten up. So she becomes lax , next there's a fire and someones house burns down cause the firetrucks  couldn't hook up , Now we condemn because she allowed parking in front of the hydrant.

I see the TSA in a no win situation.

All I know is if my daughter is boarding a plane I want the TSA to use every available tool at their disposal to ensure she reaches her destination safely.

JMHO  -  Feel free to beat me up on my unpopular position

[Cabin4]

I think the point everyone is driving at is we do need profiling. Not this BS approach of searching grandma's private parts for explosives. TSA has done themselves harm by over reaching that has not been talked about here yet. TSA questioned a guy relentlessly over having too much cash. TSA had no authority to ask about cash. Thier idiots.

[SHOOTALL]

So will 4th grade boys start trying to get 4th grade girls to play TSA agents instead of doctor now ? 

[SwampThing762]

dukkiller,

I undertsand what you say, and I have already posted the stautory definition of a sexual battery. Read previous postings. I will ask this of you, however.  Please send me the scanned image of a ticket that specifically and expressly states, and cites a statute, that I surrender my constitutional rights, specifically those of the 4th Amendment, by purchasing a piece of paper, a ticket.   Please make sure the scan is legible.  Until then, please do not call my words misguided.  Criminal charges are pending in several cases involving flight attendants already.

And, yes, I will exercise my rights as a capitalist, and I will not be flying anywhere.

ST762

[dukkillr]

dukkiller,

I undertsand what you say, and I have already posted the stautory definition of a sexual battery. Read previous postings. I will ask this of you, however.  Please send me the scanned image of a ticket that specifically and expressly states, and cites a statute, that I surrender my constitutional rights, specifically those of the 4th Amendment, by purchasing a piece of paper, a ticket.   Please make sure the scan is legible.  Until then, do not call my words misguided.

And, yes, I will exercise my rights as a capitalist, and I will not be flying anywhere.

ST762

I'll do you one better.  Between the two of us lets just watch your theory play out.  The first time a court agrees with you (and survives appeal) I'll send you a box of Omaha steaks and publicly acknowledge your fantastic legal acumen.  If, after say 6 months, no felony convictions have been won (as you described in above posts) you can create a post discussing why I'm right and you are wrong.  Sound like a fair wager?

[MGMorden]

dukkiller,

I undertsand what you say, and I have already posted the stautory definition of a sexual battery. Read previous postings. I will ask this of you, however.  Please send me the scanned image of a ticket that specifically and expressly states, and cites a statute, that I surrender my constitutional rights, specifically those of the 4th Amendment, by purchasing a piece of paper, a ticket.   Please make sure the scan is legible.  Until then, do not call my words misguided.

The procedure is an opt-in affair - it's not legal requirement.  You have your choice to do it or leave without utilizing your ticket.  As to the 4th ammendment, the keyword is obvious there "unreasonable searches and seizure" is disallowed.  It's been determined that boarding a plane constitutes a reasonable cause to be searched.  That's pretty cut and dry.  Want to change that definition or policy?  Write your representatives and ask them to do so.  Suggesting that these agents are guilty of a felony regarding the pat-downs though (the saving of the scanner images is another issue, as that IS a breach of policy), is, to put it as politely as possible, extremely naive. 

dukk is a lawyer IIRC.  Without at least equal legal skills, it's probably a good idea to trust his advice on what is illegal and what's not.

[SwampThing762]

Dukkillr,

We need not wager the box of Omaha steaks, but if no charges are filed and convictions obtained, I will concede that there is now precedent, and will stand corrected.  I am no attorney, I have only reaffirmed what i have read in news reports that these invasive procedures are crimes.  Fair enough?

ST762

[MGMorden]

Secondly, the reason profiling won't work is because terrorist come in all shapes and colors...even moslems or whomever. Once the 'profiling mentality' sets in to shake down dark, brown eyed swarthy males ...then they just employ a blondie blue eyed buxom women, etc.

People don't seem to understand that.

I remember watching one of the Harry Potter movies with my sister a few years back.  There's a character on there - Cho Chang.  She's Asian, and played by an Asian (ethnically) actress.  And then she opens her mouth in the movie and speaks . . . and out comes a Scottish accent.  Not a fake one either - a real Scottish accent, as the actress Katie Leung was born and raised in Scotland.  In addition to finding the concept of this Scottish-sounding Asian girl kinda cool (and attractive - he's purty to say the least ), it reminded me of a simple fact: race knows no nationality.  People with all skin colors are all around the world.

That applies to America, Scotland, and yes, even the Middle East.  Do you think that if we idiotically start searching only Arabic looking males that they're going to not catch on?  They'll sneak in a Swedish or African looking person snickering at our ignorance as they walk by.  Profiling is STUPID, because not only is it not fair to the MANY false positives, it also lets them know EXACTLY the type of person who will be checked, and by association, exactly the type of person who WILL NOT BE CHECKED.

It'd be akin to the cops announcing that in the efforts of saving manpower, they'll only be patrolling 3 or 4 roads in the county that are known to have a lot of speeders.  If done on a bluff, then sure, "say" that.  But don't DO it.  All that ends up happening is that people learn to speed on the roads that aren't patrolled.  If you try to switch to patrolling those roads instead, you just end up playing an endless game of whack-a-mole.  No, the smart thing is to patrol ALL those roads, because you never know where someone might be speeding, just like you never know who might be smuggling a bomb on board.

Heck even if you assume that the muslims can't find a white or black person to do this, it makes the grave mistake of thinking that THEY would be the only group trying to blow up a plane.   Timothy McVeigh blew up the Oklahomah Federal building without the aid of any Muslims and with pretty pale skin last time I checked.  Eric Robert Rudolph managed to bomb the Olympics in Atlanta.  Same situation.

Don't be so naive people . . .

[wreckhog]

wreck. I have nothing to appologize for. You think the tsa is going to tell you the truth over the phone, especially when they have no idea who you are or who you represent??? I don't. I know of too many people that fly that have told of the indignation of being targeted for search while the muslims go untouched. The muslims are the reason for all this extra garbage, they certainly should go through it if Americans are forced to.  POWDERMAN.  

See tommyT, he is a liar. His justification is that the TSA could be lying. No proof of that though.

[wreckhog]

Secondly, the reason profiling won't work is because terrorist come in all shapes and colors...even moslems or whomever. Once the 'profiling mentality' sets in to shake down dark, brown eyed swarthy males ...then they just employ a blondie blue eyed buxom women, etc.

People don't seem to understand that.

I remember watching one of the Harry Potter movies with my sister a few years back.  There's a character on there - Cho Chang.  She's Asian, and played by an Asian (ethnically) actress.  And then she opens her mouth in the movie and speaks . . . and out comes a Scottish accent.  Not a fake one either - a real Scottish accent, as the actress Katie Leung was born and raised in Scotland.  In addition to finding the concept of this Scottish-sounding Asian girl kinda cool (and attractive - he's purty to say the least ), it reminded me of a simple fact: race knows no nationality.  People with all skin colors are all around the world.

That applies to America, Scotland, and yes, even the Middle East.  Do you think that if we idiotically start searching only Arabic looking males that they're going to not catch on?  They'll sneak in a Swedish or African looking person snickering at our ignorance as they walk by.  Profiling is STUPID, because not only is it not fair to the MANY false positives, it also lets them know EXACTLY the type of person who will be checked, and by association, exactly the type of person who WILL NOT BE CHECKED.

It'd be akin to the cops announcing that in the efforts of saving manpower, they'll only be patrolling 3 or 4 roads in the county that are known to have a lot of speeders.  If done on a bluff, then sure, "say" that.  But don't DO it.  All that ends up happening is that people learn to speed on the roads that aren't patrolled.  If you try to switch to patrolling those roads instead, you just end up playing an endless game of whack-a-mole.  No, the smart thing is to patrol ALL those roads, because you never know where someone might be speeding, just like you never know who might be smuggling a bomb on board.

Heck even if you assume that the muslims can't find a white or black person to do this, it makes the grave mistake of thinking that THEY would be the only group trying to blow up a plane.   Timothy McVeigh blew up the Oklahomah Federal building without the aid of any Muslims and with pretty pale skin last time I checked.  Eric Robert Rudolph managed to bomb the Olympics in Atlanta.  Same situation.

Don't be so naive people . . .

Once of the sets of parents in my kid's class are uber educated parents, born in China, currently with homes in Beijing, London, the US and vacation homes somewhere else. Their kid flys to all of the abpve several times a year. Look Chinese, sound English.

[ironglow]

    I recall when shortly after 9/11 many voices were raised about the encroachment of our freedom when the "patriot act" allowed govt employees to eavesdrop in on phone conversations between terrorists here and in foreign lands. The complainers said it was a terrible assault against free communication.
   Today, govt workers are doing things which would get them in jail if they didn't first have Obama's permission through the TSA. They are, by all standard descriptions performing a sexual assault.
   In this case the wrong is not being perpetrated against potential terrorists only, but against octogenarians as well as teenage and pre-pubescent little girls.. Where I wonder, are all those strident voices we heard shortly after the "patriot act" was announced ?

   Mc Morden, you watch too much Harry Pottrer...Tm7..you know better;
      Israel , probably the most desireable target for these brutish terrorists, has not had a major terror incident related to their airlines since 1964 ... and they are not nearly so aggressive or intrusive as the US is,... since we now having decided to asault air travellers.    
   It would only seem common sense to learn from them just how they maintain high security for air travel. let me help you here..Israel profiles travellers who venture through their airports. Contrary to what you seem to believe, profiling is not just appearance or nation of origin, it is a whole panoply of indicators which point to potential "bad actors".  I don't know your thoughts on the subject but I am not in favor of ALL travellers being mistreated because of a minuscule amount of potential mass murderers.

  BTW: Profiling has been and continues to be a very effective law enforcement tool, it would be the height of folly to discard such a valuable method of investigation.

[Oldshooter]

pro filing works well, for El Al airlines. Wonder how they do it? 

[wreckhog]

No cavity searches on Greyhound. IG, you got options.

[jimster]

Kind of dumb and a big waste not to pro file.
Got to wonder why we wind up doing dumb things just to please a few idiots, you get no results and spend needless time and money.

Leave grandma's toothpaste alone, leave the little girls alone, they know who to check, and why....only need to be checking one certain type of people as far as bombs on airplanes or hi-jacking planes. 

If we do have a problem with grandma's and little girls on planes, we can start checking them at that time.
Sounds fair enough to me.  If you see a pit bull on your property shoot it, if a beagle is back there running a rabbit, let him be.  It's as simple as that. You pro file all the time, it's normal and it's logical most the time.     
 

[DDZ]

   I recall when shortly after 9/11 many voices were raised about the encroachment of our freedom when the "patriot act" allowed govt employees to eavesdrop in on phone conversations between terrorists here and in foreign lands. The complainers said it was a terrible assault against free communication.
   Today, govt workers are doing things which would get them in jail if they didn't first have Obama's permission through the TSA. They are, by all standard descriptions performing a sexual assault.
   In this case the wrong ios not being perpetrated against potentiual terrorists only, but against ocyogenarians as well as teenage and pre-pubescent little girls.. Where, I wonder are all those strident voices we heard shortly after the "patriot act" was announced ?

   Mc Morden, you watch too much Harry Pottrer...Tm7..you know better;
      Israel , probably the most desireable target for these brutish terrorists, has not had a major terror incident related to their airlines since 1964 ... and they are not nearly so aggressive or intrusive as the US is, now having decided to asault air travellers.    
   It would only seem common sense to learn from them just how they maintain high security for air travel. let me help you here..Isrtael profiles travellers who venture through their airports. Contrary to what you seem to believe, profiling is not just appearance or nation of origin, it is a whole panoply of indicators which point to potential "bad actors".  I don't know your thoughts on the subject but I am not in favor of ALL travellers being mistreated because of a minuscule amount of potential mass murderers.

  BTW: Profiling has been and continues to be a very effective law enforcement tool, it would be the height of folly to discard such a valuable method of investigation.

That is exactly right. Profiling has worked fine for the Israeli's. Is anyone really surprised by the way we do things, and that they never work. Our government is very inefficient at doing anything right. Profiling works, its plain and simple. If our government doesn't know how to make it work they can look at how Israel does it. To dang bad if you are singled out because you are black, pray to Allah, or are a foreign exchange student.
 Our government is to afraid to pick on any one race or nationally. So we will continue to do it the stupid way, and tick everyone off. 

[powderman]

Israel , probably the most desireable target for these brutish terrorists, has not had a major terror incident related to their airlines since 1964 ... and they are not nearly so aggressive or intrusive as the US is, now having decided to asault air travellers.   




IRONGLOW. Aside from God being on their side, and profiling I can't see a sgl reason for their success, can you??? POWDERMAN. 

[scootrd]

TM7 -  I don't say I'm right or wrong regarding profiling , I'm just stating this is how I feel whether it's PC or not.
I also feel the TSA should use or employ any means necessary to help ensure safe flights. May not be the popular stance but this is how I feel. Those that don't want what they consider to be an invasion of their rights , I understand their position as well.  

I just want my daughter to arrive safely at her destination. and if profiling is one of the many tools that can be employed to help  that means -  I'm all for it in our new environment.  

The TSA has a tough Job, sure some employees perform better than others , sure there are probably many cases of over-reaching but all in all , they are their to ensure everyone's safety, and I would rather have a few instances of over-reaching , than a single instance of under-reaching and the effects there of.

again ,
maybe not the popular stance , but it's how I feel.

[BBF]

In random order:

Profiling appears to work well for El Al !
Where is the ACLU on this?
 Can you buy a metal groin cup?
Women lining their bras with aluminum


PS Dang! the Server is busy a g a i n  AND i CAN'T POST THIS!!

[jimster]

Maybe they should pass a law that says anyone who fits the "profile" doesn't get to fly at all. That should cut down on terrorism.
Plus, no more of them could come here unless they swam over.  Now that sounds downright bogus, might be, but it would work pretty well.
There is a such thing as getting yourself killed by feeling sorry for people ya know. It's not worth it, especially when it comes to one American life.  How many people have been killed by terrorism? Many many thousands world wide. The number is huge...look it up. More than a lot of wars.

If the good muslims want it to stop, they can declare war against their more radical parts loud and openly by the millions, and start helping us, because quite franky, their silence on this matter is loud and clear. That bothers me some too.  

We keep playing around, we are going to get hurt, again....they been lucky so far, darn bombs didn't go off.  And gropping grandma at the airport won't stop it.


 

 



 

[powderman]

JIMSTER. Right you are. POWDERMAN.