Author Topic: Jack O'Connor Quote (Read 7836 times)

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #30 on:** December 18, 2011, 01:58:21 PM »

that one gets my attention at the range too!!!!!

Quote from: Rock Home Isle on December 18, 2011, 01:36:13 PM

I've shot several guns that I didn't care for...but I've never shot a calibre that I didn't like or appreciate.

Though I will admit that the .378 Weatherby Magnum did try my patience a bit...

mannyrock · « **Reply #31 on:** December 20, 2011, 10:00:09 AM »

When I was young, I read most of what Jack O'Conner wrote, including his books.

Sorry, because I know that this is sacrilege, but my take on O'Connor is that he was just another rich guy, who spent all of his time floating around the U.S. and Africa shooting big game with his wife, and then writing articles about himself.

When you write about yourself, you are generally gonna end up looking really really good.

The type of hunting he did 90 years ago (in the 1920s) bears little or no relationship to hunting conditions today. There was far more open space back, far more animals per hunter, and far far fewer hunters.

As to his love of calibers, he also raived about how great the 7 Mag was, in his book The Hunting Rifle, and said it was one of his wife's favorite cartridges.

Mannyrock

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #32 on:** December 20, 2011, 10:19:17 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on November 17, 2010, 11:27:27 PM

I'll never understand the facination with the 6.5X55 or any 6.5 caliber cartridge.

The long heavy for caliber bullets do amazing things to larger animals.
the long bullet drives deep and it is not deflected.
Recoil is mild.
One of Hemingways favorite rifles was the 6.5X54 Manlicher.
If you were to ask 100 hunters what would be the perfect ctg. They would say a combination of a 243 and a 30-06. The 6.5 Swede or the 6.5 Manlicher is just that.
But to each his own.
I think it is hard to beat any of the military calibers devoloped at the end of the last Century, all have made great sporting rounds.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #33 on:** December 21, 2011, 02:48:51 AM »

got to agree, i thought he was a blow hole myself and to this day i wont own a 270 because of it.

Quote from: mannyrock on December 20, 2011, 10:00:09 AM

When I was young, I read most of what Jack O'Conner wrote, including his books.

Sorry, because I know that this is sacrilege, but my take on O'Connor is that he was just another rich guy, who spent all of his time floating around the U.S. and Africa shooting big game with his wife, and then writing articles about himself.

When you write about yourself, you are generally gonna end up looking really really good.

The type of hunting he did 90 years ago (in the 1920s) bears little or no relationship to hunting conditions today. There was far more open space back, far more animals per hunter, and far far fewer hunters.

As to his love of calibers, he also raived about how great the 7 Mag was, in his book The Hunting Rifle, and said it was one of his wife's favorite cartridges.

Mannyrock

scootrd · « **Reply #34 on:** December 21, 2011, 06:10:27 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on November 16, 2010, 12:52:42 PM

On his favorite cartridges...."The .30-06, the .270, the .375, and the .416. Now you're going to ask me 'In what order?' In that order."~Jack O'Connor~

Manny and Lloyd ,
I also don't want to debate the virtues of Jack. It's obvious as a writer he contributed alot to the gun world based on his own personal experiences,. Personally I also don't hold him up on a pedestal either. I just consider him another source of information and opinion. I did enjoy reading him as a young man.

What I don't believe is he ever made the above statement that has been attributed to him in the opening post.
If he did , I would like to read the article where he actually made the statement.

Of everyone I have asked no one has been able to point to the original article where this quote being attributed to Jack was ever in print. Again , I readily admit I haven't read all his writings , so I could be completely wrong , but to date no one has ever been able to produce.

Swampman · « **Reply #35 on:** December 21, 2011, 06:31:54 AM »

He didn't write it, he said it.

scootrd · « **Reply #36 on:** December 21, 2011, 06:32:51 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 21, 2011, 06:31:54 AM

He didn't write it, he said it.

Please cite source of the interview.

In the Interim , I have sent the following as I am curious and would like to either dispel this as a misquote or receive affirmation this was indeed his position. I will post results of my inquiry if I receive a response.

info@jack-oconnor.org

Dear Stewards of Jack's Collection .

I recently ran across a quote in print being attributed to Mr. O'Connor.

On his favorite cartridges...."The .30-06, the .270, the .375, and the .416. Now you're going to ask me 'In what order?' In that order."~Jack O'Connor~

I can honestly say , in all his writing's I have ever read I have never come across this statement made by Mr O'connor either directly or indirectly. When I inquired further from the source of the quote, I was told he didn't write it , he spoke it. I am writing in hopes you can either dispel this either as a misquote or, affirm the quote can indeed be attributed to Mr. O'Connor's position.

Any further information you can provide is greatly appreciated.

mannyrock · « **Reply #37 on:** December 21, 2011, 06:58:09 AM »

Gosh Scootrd, for me, I would just file this under the category of "who cares?"

Though its been a long long time since I read his book, the Hunting Rifle, my recollection is that he heaped incredible praise upon the .30-06 in that work.

And, when you come right down to it, although the .270 is an exception caliber, it's limitation to 150 bullets does not make it the best all-around hunting rifle by any means. It is simply one of many calibers, including the .30-06, .308, and .280, that can handle 95% of all big game if you throroughly understand your rifle and caliber, and utilize proper bullets and exact bullet placement. (My understanding is that the .270 is actually a .278 caliber, so how exactly is it "superior" to the .280 Remington?)

I think that what O'Connor did was to be one of the first people to thoroughly research and master the .270 in all respects, understanding its power and its limitations, and to use it accordingly. Unfortunately, 95% of all of the people who use a .270 are not masters of anything, and simply rely on its reputation (as opposed to their marksmanship) to try to kill very large game, often with bad results.

Just my thoughts,

Mannyrock

Swampman · « **Reply #38 on:** December 21, 2011, 07:18:12 AM »

The folks that you sent the email to won't have any info on it. He didn't say it to them. It was in a personal conversation.

Spanky · « **Reply #39 on:** December 21, 2011, 07:29:33 AM »

Quote from: scootrd on December 21, 2011, 06:32:51 AM

Quote from: Swampman on December 21, 2011, 06:31:54 AM
He didn't write it, he said it.

Please cite source of the interview.

In the Interim , I have sent the following as I am curious and would like to either dispel this as a misquote or receive affirmation this was indeed his position. I will post results of my inquiry if I receive a response.

info@jack-oconnor.org

Dear Stewards of Jack's Collection .

I recently ran across a quote in print being attributed to Mr. O'Connor.

On his favorite cartridges...."The .30-06, the .270, the .375, and the .416. Now you're going to ask me 'In what order?' In that order."~Jack O'Connor~

I can honestly say , in all his writing's I have ever read I have never come across this statement made by Mr O'connor either directly or indirectly. When I inquired further from the source of the quote, I was told he didn't write it , he spoke it. I am writing in hopes you can either dispel this either as a misquote or, affirm the quote can indeed be attributed to Mr. O'Connor's position.

Any further information you can provide is greatly appreciated.

Sounds like you're trying to stir up something here Scoot. What's the big deal?

Spanky

scootrd · « **Reply #40 on:** December 21, 2011, 08:28:43 AM »

Quote from: Spanky on December 21, 2011, 07:29:33 AM

Quote from: scootrd on December 21, 2011, 06:32:51 AM
Quote from: Swampman on December 21, 2011, 06:31:54 AM
He didn't write it, he said it.

Please cite source of the interview.

In the Interim , I have sent the following as I am curious and would like to either dispel this as a misquote or receive affirmation this was indeed his position. I will post results of my inquiry if I receive a response.

info@jack-oconnor.org

Dear Stewards of Jack's Collection .

I recently ran across a quote in print being attributed to Mr. O'Connor.

On his favorite cartridges...."The .30-06, the .270, the .375, and the .416. Now you're going to ask me 'In what order?' In that order."~Jack O'Connor~

I can honestly say , in all his writing's I have ever read I have never come across this statement made by Mr O'connor either directly or indirectly. When I inquired further from the source of the quote, I was told he didn't write it , he spoke it. I am writing in hopes you can either dispel this either as a misquote or, affirm the quote can indeed be attributed to Mr. O'Connor's position.

Any further information you can provide is greatly appreciated.

Sounds like you're trying to stir up something here Scoot. What's the big deal?

Spanky

Not stirring anything. Just personal curiosity.
When I was younger I did a paper on O'Connor and never came across this particular quote. .
I have also been an avid reader of O'Connor since I was young and never had read this quote. Now I am being told he spoke it. I would like to learn more. When did he speak it ? to whom ? and what was the context? as this quote does not appear (at least in my mind consistent with his thoughts and writings). at least in what I researched when I was younger. ) But again I'm sure I have not read everything he ever wrote nor apparently heard the interview where he spoke this.

scootrd · « **Reply #41 on:** December 21, 2011, 11:01:38 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 21, 2011, 07:18:12 AM

The folks that you sent the email to won't have any info on it. He didn't say it to them. It was in a personal conversation.

Ok, so it was a personal conversation, between Jack and Who ?

351 power · « **Reply #42 on:** December 21, 2011, 11:38:33 AM »

well done scootrd.
and mannyrock, hit it on the head

Swampman · « **Reply #43 on:** December 21, 2011, 02:04:06 PM »

Quote from: scootrd on December 21, 2011, 11:01:38 AM

Quote from: Swampman on December 21, 2011, 07:18:12 AM
The folks that you sent the email to won't have any info on it. He didn't say it to them. It was in a personal conversation.

Ok, so it was a personal conversation, between Jack and Who ?

A known gun writer. If you don't believe he said it, that's ok too. I'm not really a Jack o'Commor fan. I like Elmer Keith better.

scootrd · « **Reply #44 on:** December 21, 2011, 04:34:33 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 21, 2011, 02:04:06 PM

Quote from: scootrd on December 21, 2011, 11:01:38 AM
Quote from: Swampman on December 21, 2011, 07:18:12 AM
The folks that you sent the email to won't have any info on it. He didn't say it to them. It was in a personal conversation.

Ok, so it was a personal conversation, between Jack and Who ?

A known gun writer. If you don't believe he said it, that's ok too. I'm not really a Jack o'Commor fan. I like Elmer Keith better.

I'm very curious and most interested, It appears you possibly have some new and possibly previously un researched Jack O'Connor information. So please inform who the unnamed known gun writer was?.

I would like to research the spoken quote further by contacting the writer and inquiring under the circumstances Mr. O'Connor made the oral statement you quoted to this known yet un-named writer.

GWC · « **Reply #45 on:** December 24, 2011, 04:03:52 AM »

I'm with scoot on this. I believe I've read 99% of Jack's articles and I own all of his books. Never have I seen this quote concerning the ol' 06 but Jack never had ill to speak of the 30-06 either. His wife Eleanor used one as her big gun for elephant and such and Jack wrote of her success with it.As for her affection for the 7 mag, I beg to differ. Her favorite caliber was the 7mm mauser(7x57) as was stated innumerable times in many articles and books.
The" I liked Elmer Keith better" comment is very telling in that O"Connor and Keith,along with each one's respective supporters mixed as well as oil and water. I'm obviously biased on the matter so I'll only say all that believe that an elk shot a couple of times thru the lungs with a .270 Win. was killed later in the hunt in fine shape and running around as if nothing had happened, raise your right hand. Thought so!

Rock Home Isle · « **Reply #46 on:** December 24, 2011, 04:10:44 AM »

The request is simple..."to whom was the quote the made"; very simple and not an outrageous request.

But the release of little teasers of information and the blatant backing away from the orignal quote...places a veneer of doubt as to the authenticity of the quote in the first place (among other things). Sad to see in such a public forum.

Swampman · « **Reply #47 on:** December 24, 2011, 11:09:06 AM »

Not backing away from the original quote at all...Jack said it....to someone I know.

scootrd · « **Reply #48 on:** December 24, 2011, 11:23:32 AM »

All the better . So rather than stringing this out it, it Should be pretty easy then to supply your Known writer friends name and contact information. I would like to contact and research this quote further.

Additionally , I have seen this quote posted on other forums.. so both you and other posters on other websites must have this same known writer friend in common, and he must have shared this oral quote with them as well.

yooper77 · « **Reply #49 on:** December 24, 2011, 08:23:59 PM »

It's getting deeper and deeper in here!

yooper77

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #50 on:** December 25, 2011, 02:32:46 AM »

This is turning into a pissing match. No more knowlege to be gained here. Its Christmas guys, give it a rest.

scootrd · « **Reply #51 on:** December 25, 2011, 04:59:10 AM »

I agree , I will just consider the O'connor quote bogus , and move on , unless additional substantiating information and writer contact can be provided by Swampman.

Spanky · « **Reply #52 on:** December 25, 2011, 07:41:20 AM »

If anyone other than Swampy had posted the quote it would be a non issue. But... since Swampy posted it there's been an ongoing effort to paint him as a liar. If Tim (Quickdtoo) or Bill (Graybeard) had posted the quote would they be drilled over and over and made out as liars? I doubt it.
There's no need to keep on with all this. If Swampy says O'Connor said it that's good enough for me. It's not my place (or anyone elses) to keep badgering him about it.
That's my opinion... Merry CHRISTmas.

Spanky

GWC · « **Reply #53 on:** December 25, 2011, 08:04:04 AM »

Spanky- if Bill or Tim made this statement I'd question it as well. I freely admit to being an O'Connor fan and grow tired of this ,my brother in law had a friend ,whose ex wife's sister's cousin twice removed heard a guy down at the liquor store say he heard........ type of babble taken as gospel or maybe it was on the internet so it's got to be true. Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

hunt-m-up · « **Reply #54 on:** December 25, 2011, 09:19:08 AM »

Quote from: mannyrock on December 21, 2011, 06:58:09 AM

Gosh Scootrd, for me, I would just file this under the category of "who cares?"

Though its been a long long time since I read his book, the Hunting Rifle, my recollection is that he heaped incredible praise upon the .30-06 in that work.

And, when you come right down to it, although the .270 is an exception caliber, it's limitation to 150 bullets does not make it the best all-around hunting rifle by any means. It is simply one of many calibers, including the .30-06, .308, and .280, that can handle 95% of all big game if you throroughly understand your rifle and caliber, and utilize proper bullets and exact bullet placement. (My understanding is that the .270 is actually a .278 caliber, so how exactly is it "superior" to the .280 Remington?)

I think that what O'Connor did was to be one of the first people to thoroughly research and master the .270 in all respects, understanding its power and its limitations, and to use it accordingly. Unfortunately, 95% of all of the people who use a .270 are not masters of anything, and simply rely on its reputation (as opposed to their marksmanship) to try to kill very large game, often with bad results.

Just my thoughts,

Mannyrock

I can appreciate what you're saying, but I think today this applies even more to people shooting anything with a "magnum' behind it. A magnum is always bigger and better and ought to be able to make up for a poor shot right?

Dee · « **Reply #55 on:** December 25, 2011, 11:10:45 AM »

I really don't care who said it, and can't believe this has been made such an issue. It was, or wasn't an opinion, of another guy who shot guns, hunted, and made a good living BSin others to believe that he was an expert. He was no better, or worse than any of the other gun rag gurus. He just happened to be one of the early ones, and they were never as great as their now touted to have been.
Swampy, your quote is safe with me. This is nothing more than a nit not worth pickin, and mole hill not worth being excavated. O'Connor wrote articles and books. So did thousands other folks with a typewriter, and a pencil sharpener.

Rock Home Isle · « **Reply #56 on:** December 25, 2011, 05:24:27 PM »

I declare SHENANIGANS.

scootrd · « **Reply #57 on:** December 26, 2011, 02:37:38 AM »

Quote from: Spanky on December 25, 2011, 07:41:20 AM

If anyone other than Swampy had posted the quote it would be a non issue. But... since Swampy posted it there's been an ongoing effort to paint him as a liar. If Tim (Quickdtoo) or Bill (Graybeard) had posted the quote would they be drilled over and over and made out as liars? I doubt it.
There's no need to keep on with all this. If Swampy says O'Connor said it that's good enough for me. It's not my place (or anyone elses) to keep badgering him about it.
That's my opinion... Merry CHRISTmas.

Spanky

Spanky No true ,
If anyone had posted this quote. I would have asked politely for the source ( which I did here!! ) so I could research more, because I was truly personally interested in the context with which the quote may have been spoken and would have loved to read the Article, or in tis case spoke with the "known Writer" this was orally stated too. Perhaps there could have been another article or paper in the works regarding this quote and how it fit into Jack O'Connors timeline, depending on when he is being quoted as as making the statement.
Was it early in his career? later years? why placed before his loved .270? etc.. What changed in his thinking and methodologies?

As I said, I'm moving on. Swampy need not reply. his "secret source" is safe.
The fact that this was strung out speaks volumes for itself regarding such an alleged quote being attributed to Jack O'Connor.

Merry Christmas to all as well.

Dee · « **Reply #58 on:** December 26, 2011, 03:02:18 AM »

The fact that it was contested, and even became an issue, speaks volumes for itself.

By the way. Swampy didn't make the quote up. He got it off of 24HourCampfire, and a gentleman by the name of Ken Howell, repeated what a friend of his said O'Connor told him in a conversation.

scootrd · « **Reply #59 on:** December 26, 2011, 03:13:46 AM »

Quote from: Dee on December 26, 2011, 03:02:18 AM

The fact that it was contested, and even became an issue, speaks volumes for itself.

By the way. Swampy didn't make the quote up. He got it off of 24HourCampfire, and a gentleman by the name of Ken Howell, repeated what a friend of his said O'Connor told him in a conversation.

Dee,
That's all he had to say. I will try and contact Ken Howell. Thanks for the quick response.
If anyone has Ken's contact info , I would love to chat with him.
If , not I can try and reach him through site Dee mentioned above.