Jack O'Connor Quote

[Bart Solo]

I had read the quote on 24hourcampfire so I knew Swampy wasn't making it up.  What I don't know is if I can trust 2nd hand hearsay. 
 
On the other hand the quote should make sense to anybody who read O'Connor. 
 
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/81463/2

[Rock Home Isle]

Finally mystery solved...
 
I gotta tell ya guys, I firmly believe that life needs to be less cloak & dagger and more handshakes and how ya doins.... 

[scootrd]

I had read the quote on 24hourcampfire so I knew Swampy wasn't making it up.  What I don't know is if I can trust 2nd hand hearsay. 
 
On the other hand the quote should make sense to anybody who read O'Connor. 

Contextually speaking the quote seems a bit misaligned or at least less consistent within the framework of his other writings I had read thus far (at least from my perspective ) hence why my interest peaked. I think it would be great to uncover either a previously unknown writing , article , or conversation , with which the quote was given. The order with which he placed his beloved .270 within the stated quote fascinates me, but again we don't at this point know if he was speaking in context of hunting specific game , or hunting within specific terrain , or perhaps just personal preference etc.. We also don't know at what point in his life he stated it. Was it early in life before writing for Sports Afield, Outdoor Life, and others. Or did he state it much later in life after he retired in early '70's etc..

I have sent an email off to Ken hoping to receive some additional background information.
I will respond to those interested with an update if I receive additional information regarding my inquiry. 

[Dee]

Since O'Connor is dead, I doubt even he cares about this issue. I found the source in very complicated proceedure. I typed the quote into yahoo, and up it came. It took about 20 seconds. Had it taken 21 seconds, I would have lost interest.
I see this whole thing much the way I see a dog chasin a car. What happens when he catches it?

[yooper77]

The folks that you sent the email to won't have any info on it.  He didn't say it to them.  It was in a personal conversation.

Ok,  so it was a personal conversation,  between Jack and Who ?

A known gun writer.  If you don't believe he said it, that's ok too.  I'm not really a Jack o'Commor fan.  I like Elmer Keith better.

The 338-06 article by Finn Aagaard is my favorite and Elmer Keith is also mentioned.
 
http://nitroexpress.info/ezine/NickuduFiles/Members-PDF/Aagaard-338-06.pdf

I have yet to try 250 grain bullets in my 338-06 A-Square, but I have them on hand and excited on trying them someday in my Weatherby Mark V Ultra Lightweight wearing a Leupold VX-II 3.5-10x40mm scope or Thompson Center Encore barrel wearing a Leupold VX II 3-9x40mm scope.
 
I shoot the 270 Winchester but not because Jack O'Connor liked it, but because my father in-law won a Ruger M77 MKII in 270 Winchester in a one dollar raffle nothing more. All factory nice trigger, MOA accuracy with my hand loads of IMR-4831 and Nosler or Hornady 150 grain bullets, and wears a Leupold Vari-X II 3-9x40mm scope.
 
yooper77

[scootrd]

http://nitroexpress.info/ezine/NickuduFiles/Members-PDF/Aagaard-338-06.pdf

I have yet to try 250 grain bullets in my 338-06 A-Square, but I have them on hand and excited on trying them someday in my Weatherby Mark V Ultra Lightweight wearing a Leupold VX-II 3.5-10x40mm scope or Thompson Center Encore barrel wearing a Leupold VX II 3-9x40mm scope.
 
I shoot the 270 Winchester but not because Jack O'Connor liked it, but because my father in-law won a Ruger M77 MKII in 270 Winchester in a one dollar raffle nothing more. All factory nice trigger, MOA accuracy with my hand loads of IMR-4831 and Nosler or Hornady 150 grain bullets, and wears a Leupold Vari-X II 3-9x40mm scope.
 
yooper77

That was a good article,  and I enjoyed the read .thanks for posting.

[Rock Home Isle]

Since O'Connor is dead, I doubt even he cares about this issue. I found the source in very complicated proceedure. I typed the quote into yahoo, and up it came. It took about 20 seconds. Had it taken 21 seconds, I would have lost interest.
I see this whole thing much the way I see a dog chasin a car. What happens when he catches it?

 
  ...Okay, that made my sides hurt....Now I have the giggles something fierce.

[scootrd]

For those interested.

Well unfortunately I contacted Ken Howell originator of the following post on 24hourcampfire site -

A friend of mine who knew O'Connor pretty well asked him what his favorite cartridges were. "The .30-06, the .270, the .375, and the .416. Now you're going to ask me 'In what order?' In that order." When O'Connor hunted the biggest American game, he preferred the .375 H&H. For the big African critters, he preferred the .416 Rigby. The .270 was his sheep rifle, and he used it also on other game that he encountered while hunting sheep.
 
I asked Ken if he could help substantiate the quote. His response was -

Can't help you. Sorry!

Too bad really, I was hoping to gain some more insight into Jack O'Connor than what may have been previously known
or written about.  Since the original origin of the quote started with ken's previous post,  and then re-posted here.  Given Ken cannot provide additional support of his own post - I guess from my perspective this Jack O'Connor Quote can be chalked up to here-say and filed as unsubstantiated.

 - Case closed
 

[Swampman]

I don't know Ken.....I told you the source for the quote.

[scootrd]

Swampman ,
 
 no where in this post did you offer up a name, contact etc.. . Though you were given ample opportunity to do so and provide clarification.  As someone posted earlier , nothing more to learn here.  I leave it for other readers of this thread to decide what they want to believe, as for me this thread speaks for itself , I consider the quote unsubstantiated hearsay that cannot be contributed to Jack O'Connor.

Additionally as stated previously the quote originated with Ken  Howell - 
excerpt from his original post - 

A friend of mine who knew O'Connor pretty well asked him what his favorite cartridges were. "The .30-06, the .270, the .375, and the .416. Now you're going to ask me 'In what order?' In that order."

 Too bad really , maybe we all could have learned some new insights about Mr. O'Connor .
 
 I'm moving on , this is my last post on the subject.

[yooper77]

scootrd,
 
I thank you for your efforts, but I am not at all surprised with your findings.
 
yooper77

[Rock Home Isle]

Well Dang. I was hoping that there would have been more substance to the initial quote.
 
I will say that this thread has piqued my interest in Jack O'Connor....To the point that I ordered 2 books on the man. My memories of Mr. O'Connor are of the few articles that I read towards the end of his tenure at Outdoor Life. My uncles were big fans of O'Connor an spoke of him often. When I turned, 12 I got a Ruger .270 Winchester, mostly because that was the calibre that Jack O'Connor was associated with.
 
The first book that I'll read on Jack O'Connor is "The lost Classics of Jack O'Connor". It covers 40 of his articles while he was with Outdooor Life. They begin with articles from the 1940's and many of them include stories of his hunting trips with his late wife, Elinore an his kids.
 
After reading the introduction and the brief sinopsys of his life, I'm simply amazed at how prolific a writer he was...

[Swampman]

I pointed out the source.

[mcwoodduck]

Since O'Connor is dead, I doubt even he cares about this issue. I found the source in very complicated proceedure. I typed the quote into yahoo, and up it came. It took about 20 seconds. Had it taken 21 seconds, I would have lost interest.
I see this whole thing much the way I see a dog chasin a car. What happens when he catches it?

Dee,
Talking about calibers and favorite ctgs is what we do.  As you and I have discussed,  Ballistically a lot of ctgs are a like, the size of the hole in the end of the barrel may differ slightly but the bullets are about the same weight.
You and I once talked about the difference between a few cartridges over the past few years and why I had picked this one over that one.   Clearly a deer or hog would never know the difference between  being hit by a 30-30, 308, or a 30-06 or almost any of the wildcat versions of those cases.   
I agree with you that arguing over the difference between the 30-06 an the 270 is silly.  they are ballistic cousins and both launch a 150 grain bullet the same speed.  the differeence between the .308 and the .277 bullets  is not a significant staticital difference.
And like you said who cares if Jack liked the 30-06 better than the 270?  And why he only stated 4 cartridges.
With that said, the gun rags are supost to promote new rifles, new calibers, and new materials.  The idea is to make you want a new rifle, shotgun or handgun, even though the rifle you have been using for the past umteen years works perfectly on the game you hunt.
Much like the car rags make you want a new car or truck, when your current one gets you around just fine and talk about hte difference between V6, V8, V10 or turbo 4 cylinder, gas and diesel, and so on. 
It would be like some one saying Lee Iacoca likes the Dodge Charger better than the Ford Mustang (he developed the Mustang)
 

[poncaguy]

300 WSM then 270 WSM, then 270.............................

[Rock Home Isle]

I have read lots of O'Connor's writings.  It is pretty ironic that he is so entwined historically with the .270, but he actually loved the 30.06.

......

I remember reading his articles as a kid; so I have fond memories of the man.
 
I just recently finished reading two very good books on O'Connor...one was a series of his old articles that covered various game at different points in his career, the 2nd was a biography on O'Connor. I'll be looking for more of his work...that is a definate for sure.
 
I was struck by how very big a supporter of the .30-06 that he was...And that fact amazes me and surprises me since he was also such a huge fan of the .270 at the same time.
 
I have also learned that he was also very fond of the .257 Roberts and the 7mm x 57 Mauser...
 
Yeah, I'll be looking for more of his work. He was very knowledgable...

[mcwoodduck]

I have read lots of O'Connor's writings.  It is pretty ironic that he is so entwined historically with the .270, but he actually loved the 30.06.

......

I remember reading his articles as a kid; so I have fond memories of the man.
 
I just recently finished reading two very good books on O'Connor...one was a series of his old articles that covered various game at different points in his career, the 2nd was a biography on O'Connor. I'll be looking for more of his work...that is a definate for sure.
 
I was struck by how very big a supporter of the .30-06 that he was...And that fact amazes me and surprises me since he was also such a huge fan of the .270 at the same time.
 
I have also learned that he was also very fond of the .257 Roberts and the 7mm x 57 Mauser...
 
Yeah, I'll be looking for more of his work. He was very knowledgable...

 
For some reason I thought he said the 270 was a great round for mountain goats and forever it stuck that the 270 was his pet round and the riflemans rifle in a Winchester M70.  I wonder how much of that was promotion by Winchester to sell their ammo and rifles basedon Jacks popular writtings.  Much like I purchased a 375H&H based on the wrttings of Capstick.

[anweis]

I just finished reading The Rifle Book, and i read all his books except the Shotgun Book. He writes 6 times more words with 3 times more appreciation for the .270 than anything else, and he writes at least 30 times, that the best caliber does not exist, only best suited rifle, with which the hunter is familiar with and can shoot well. He wrote more about the quality of bullets and importance of marksmanship and he emphasized that a poor bullet or a poor shot is useless, even from a "good" caliber. In fact, in the Rifle Book, i think that he wrote that 30-06 is great because it is versatile in terms of bullet weights, but he went on to say that for every bullet weight or hunting task there are other calibers that do the job better than 30-06. I agree, the 30-06 is like the German Shepherd, good at many things, but not the best at anything. And that was 1962, mind you. Jack would have been thrilled by the 7mm-08, or the 6.5 Grendel and the new ballistics from so many new powders, and the copper bullets. In Jack's time, Barnes was making explosive lead bullets.   
He was also quite critical of the 30-06 for shooting different bullet weights at different POI, which was not the case with his .270 at that time.


And yes, i am sure that he appreciated the 30-06 too. It still does not mean that it is best or superior. Further, it does not validate your choice, Swampman. Just because O'Connor wrote that 30-06 is great it does not make you smart for choosing it.

I respect a lot hunters who choose rifles because they fit them, are apt to the task, are well built, and learn to shoot them well. I respect hunters who choose a good (for them) 6.5 over a shoddy 30-06. Caliber comparisons are useless. There is more to hunting, marksmanship, etc. than caliber.

I have reloaded for a 30-06 owned by a friend, and i got to shoot the rifle. He asked me to load bullets which do not ruin too much meat...I did not hunt with this rifle, and i do not own a 30-06. After shooting it, and one other Mauser 30-06, after handling a few 30-06 Rem 700s, i can tell that i would never ever want a 30-06 and i would never take it over my 6mm Remington. For the really big stuff, i would get a .338 anyway. Oh, wait, i already did.

[scootrd]

My exact point
I personally still doubt he ever wrote or spoke the original quote to begin with.and especially not "in the order" the OP posted as being quoted.

[Zachary]

I'll never understand the facination with the 6.5X55 or any 6.5 caliber cartridge.

I own two 6.5mm cartridges.  The first is a .260 Remington, and the second is a .264 Win Mag.  Both are in Remington BDL SS.  My .264 Win Mag is still brand new and never been shot, so I can't make any personal comments on it. 
 
However, I have shot the .260 Remington, both at the range and on game, and I can thus make a comment, albeit limited.
 
At the range, the .260 Remington was just a joy to shoot.  As I am sure many people already know, the .260 Remington is essentially a 7mm-08 (or .308) necked down to a 6.5mm bullet.  I honestly do not specifically recall the exact group size, but I do recall that it was certainly under 1MOA, but I do recall that the recoil was light, and (if memory serves me correct) it was lighter than a 7mm-08, even though both had 140 grain bullets.
 
On game, I used the .260 Remington on a good sized doe (by Texas terms, that means about 80 to 90 pounds).  The shot placement was traditional "right behind the shoulder."  The doe ran a short distance (about 50 yards or so), and piled up.  The shot was fairly standard at about 100 yards.  The bullet was a complete pass-through, with the exit hole a bit larger than the entrance hole.
 
Of course I cannot speak for everyone who shoots a 6.5mm cartridge, but there is a general consensus that the "fascination" has to do with its very light recoil combined with a very high sectional density.  I have never used the Swiss cartridge, but I understand from much literature that it is (believe it or not) the gun of choice of many moose hunters.  Personally, my experience with the .30-06 would be something that I would consider minimum on extra large game such as moose, but there is no denying the many accounts of such animals being taken with the little 6.5 because of its very high sectional density.
 
Obviously, a 7mm-08 can do pretty much anything that a .260 Remington can do.  As such, I would imagine that another reason for such high (and rather unique and specialized) interest, would simply be that the round (both in .260 Remington, and particularly in 6.5x55) is because of the fact that it is also just different.
 
Zachary
 

[Swampman]

My exact point
I personally still doubt he ever wrote or spoke the original quote to begin with.and especially not "in the order" the OP posted as being quoted.

Well, that settles it then.

[Spanky]

My exact point
I personally still doubt he ever wrote or spoke the original quote to begin with.and especially not "in the order" the OP posted as being quoted.

 
C'mon Scoot... we get it. You've been beatin' on a dead horse for 3 pages just to discredit Swampy. Who really cares if O'Connor said it or not? It isn't really that big of a deal.... is it?
 
 
 
Spanky

[scootrd]

was never trying to discredit anyone ,
was actually trying to elicit his help in determining where quote came from, who could shed more light on it etc..  cause I was interested in if he said it or spoke it  - what made him change his mind to place the '06 over his venerable favorite .270 . I also was interested in if he had said it before he started writing for the Gun rags , or later in life , after. All I was met with was vague avoidance. I had put this to rest and was not going to comment any further until anweis resurrected the post.