30-30AI info needed.

[Ratchet]

I am considering buying a 30-30AI barrel for my contnder rifle and am curious about the fire form/reloading of this cartridge.  Do I need to full length size the brass with an AI sizing die after I fire form the cases or can you neck size them only?  Any help would be appreciated.

[alan in ga]

I never did have to full length size my Handi Rifle in 30/30AI.
Also, I only used a .308 Winchester FL die, and "neck" size the 30/30 AI cases with IT. Worked great.
I planned on buying a 30/30 Ack Imp die set, but 30/30 cases are so common and easy to find than I never did!
I believe I went as many as 7 reloads without ever 'needing' full length sizing, and sold the rifle before I loaded more number of times.
Yep, find an old .308 Win FL die and have at it. You will need a 30/30 shell holder though.

[Ratchet]

Thanks for the info Alan.  I already have a collet die and full length die for 30-30Win.  Do you know if you can neck size the AI with the standard 30-30 collet die?  Sorry if it is a dumb question, I just started doing some reloading for my contender pistol in 30-30 and I am pretty green.  Trying to decide between the AI and standard cartridge for my rifle.

[David D.]

We all have opinions and this is mine. I have two 30-30AI's, one in a Contender, the other a MOA. My main purpose in going to the improved case was it holds more powder. This means I'm going to push mine or I'd just stuck with the 30-30. You may get by for several loadings or you may not just neck sizing. Myself I would most certainly invest in the AI dies because at some point you probably are going to have to bump the shoulder back.

[alan in ga]

Thanks for the info Alan.  I already have a collet die and full length die for 30-30Win.  Do you know if you can neck size the AI with the standard 30-30 collet die?  Sorry if it is a dumb question, I just started doing some reloading for my contender pistol in 30-30 and I am pretty green.  Trying to decide between the AI and standard cartridge for my rifle.

{Do you know if you can neck size the AI with the standard 30-30 collet die?}->>
>>No you cannot. It will squeeze part of the expanded body back to neck diameter because part [bottom] of the factory neck was blown out to body diameter. You CAN use Lee Collet dies for RIMLESS rounds that are Ackley Improved as the necks of those factory cases stayed origional. Only the shoulder and body were 'blown out'.
Shoot your rifle as is in factory form. Then, if the Ackley Improved idea appeals to you, DO IT! It has been fun for me. I do not regret 'improving' any of mine.
Warning: blood in picture [.250 Savage Ack. Imp., my favorite]

[Ratchet]

Thanks to both of you for the input.  What you said about the collet die makes sense Alan.  I think that I am going to go with the AI barrel and just break in the barrel with factory loads.  As soon as possible I will buy a complete die set and start to play with loads.  I have been wanting to do this with my 14" barrel for a while but I just ran across a 24" barrel already AI chambered and figured I would go ahead and get started with it first.

[alan in ga]

I would grab up that rifle barrel in a jiffy! I miss my Handi Rifle in 30/30AI and would really rather have a Contender rifle/Carbine in the same. A rimmed round is great in a single shot break action like the Contender.
I now have G2s.
You can shoot factory 30/30 in that AI chamber and never set up to reload AIs if for some reason you just 'didn't'. You'll accumulate a lot of fireformed cases, and only loose a few FPS if any firing standard in the AI chamber.
Now that I've read about your plan, I may have to get a bull barrel for my G2 Contender in 30/30AI as well. Actually I like .25 caliber as well, and have considered looking for a .25/35 Win which is also based on the 30/30 case. It is offered in AI as well. Now we're talkin!

[shot1]

The lee FL dies work great for me. I have been shooting deer with my 14 " MGM Shilen 30-30AI barrel this season.Two doe and a 7 Point buck so far from 45 to 80 yards and it hammers them. 125 ballistic tip 33 grs imr 4198 WW case Wolf LR primer 2670 fps and a tack driver.

[Ratchet]

Shot1, are you full length sizing with every firing?  The Lee dies that I keep finding online are a 2 die set and do not include a neck size only die.  I should have my barrel in a week and if all goes well I will have the scope mounted asap and to the range to start fire forming cases.  I am on vacation for 2 weeks at Christmas and I hope to start load development then.  Thanks for volunteering your recipe as all info is appreciated.

[Hopalong7]

     I have used the Lee 30-30AI die set for 'bout 8 years, maybe couple more, with good success.  with the FL size die you just back off a little and you're only neck sizing.  Now, with that said, let me say that I'm one of Lee's biggest fan's for their collet size die, but alas, I've not gotten the 30-30 yet....high on my list though. So, I can't say if the 30-30Win Collet die will work for 30-30AI.  I do have a Hornady short .30 neck size die, and it does work good.
Walt

[charles p]

The 308 case is a rimless case and the 30/30 is a rimmed case.  If you size a 308 to the 30/30 deminsions, will it always work in a 30/30 barrel?  I know it would have to headspace on the cartridge neck and not the rim. 

[alan in ga]

The Lee Collet 30/30 Win. die will not work with the 30/30 Ackley Improved.
The .308 FL [not the collet] die will NECK SIZE a 30/30 Win AND a .30/30 Ackley Improved. It will not size all the neck but enough to hold a bullet.
It will only neck size, therefore the fireformed 30/30AI case will still headspace on the shoulder of the chamber it was previously fired in.

[SD Handgunner]

What I did with the .30-30 AI Contender Handgun I had was to back off the FL sizer die so it sized to the bottom of the case neck, just so it touched the shoulder and no more. I used a Redding FL .30-30 AI Die Set. I just blackened a case neck with a marker and kept screwing the die in a little at a time until I had the entire case neck sized.

Actually I do the same exact thing with the 7-30 Waters also.

Larry

[Hopalong7]

What I did with the .30-30 AI Contender Handgun I had was to back off the FL sizer die so it sized to the bottom of the case neck, just so it touched the shoulder and no more. I used a Redding FL .30-30 AI Die Set. I just blackened a case neck with a marker and kept screwing the die in a little at a time until I had the entire case neck sized.

Actually I do the same exact thing with the 7-30 Waters also.

Larry

Exactly!!!.....the only reason I like the Lee Collet die is for long tapering cases like the 30-30Win and 22Hor.  The Collet die does away with the pushing & pulling on the case.  Of course, the Ackely Improvement removes the long tapered shoulder which is it's biggest advantage.
Walt

[shot1]

I just got home from a two week deer hunt in NC where I had to go to town to get Wifi so I am just getting back to your question. I also just back off the FL LEE die to size the neck down to just where I just bump the shoulder. I killed 4 deer with my 14" Contender MGM barrel 30-30AI from 45 to 80 yards and let me tell you the 125 Nosler ballistic tip pushed by 33 grs IMR 4198 is a deer hammer. 3 deer dropped in their tracks and one only went 30 yards because I had to snap shoot it as it did not stop as it crossed the logging path and I hit it a little lower on the front shoulder than I like but it blew it's heart to bits.

[alan in ga]

I just got home from a two week deer hunt in NC where I had to go to town to get Wifi so I am just getting back to your question. I also just back off the FL LEE die to size the neck down to just where I just bump the shoulder. I killed 4 deer with my 14" Contender MGM barrel 30-30AI from 45 to 80 yards and let me tell you the 125 Nosler ballistic tip pushed by 33 grs IMR 4198 is a deer hammer. 3 deer dropped in their tracks and one only went 30 yards because I had to snap shoot it as it did not stop as it crossed the logging path and I hit it a little lower on the front shoulder than I like but it blew it's heart to bits.

Was wondering, do you use hearing protection when deer hunting with the 30/30AI? [Surely you do?]

[shot1]

I keep a pair of the rubber ribbed ear plugs that are on a string around my neck. When possible, which is every time but once so far, I pop them in my ears before I shoot. I have noticed over the years that while shooting at game with a rifle and the one time with the 30-30AI pistol with out ear plugs it really does not ring my ears for some reason. If I were to shoot either out target shooting only once it would really ring my ears.

[I make oil]

I used to be the same way.  What I figured out is when on the range I shoot at I am surrounded by berms that bounce a lot of the sound back at me.  In the woods the trees seem to help dissipate the sound.