Author Topic: Antler restrictions (Read 4084 times)

mspaci · « **on:** November 18, 2010, 08:51:00 AM »

please tell us why as well. This has been a long debate at the club I belong to & would like to know what othere think

Mike103 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2010, 01:04:25 PM »

Put me down as a no.

Any buck is a trophy to me and many others.

DANNY-L · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2010, 03:26:09 PM »

To each there own but I'm for it. Should include the entire state. Although I can see a allowing the young beginners to take there first whatever buck.

dukkillr · « **Reply #3 on:** November 18, 2010, 04:02:30 PM »

Best thing that ever happened to deer hunting in Missouri.

Leatherstocking · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2010, 03:44:57 AM »

Folks should think of it in the same way as size restrictions on fish. If the size limit is 9" and there develops a need to protect more of the younger age class, you increase the size limit. Same with deer. The doe to buck ratio is so screwed up in most areas of the state because we harvest too many of the younger age class bucks every year. It is not just about antlers, it is about the health of the herd and having a normal well balanced population.

I am a firm believer that one of the big changes we would see with a better ratio is less coyote predation and healthier fawns going into winter. Think about it. With so many does for a buck to breed, the fawn drop gets scattered out over a longer period and many are born very late - coyotes get more fawns and many are very small by fall/winter. How many of you have seen fawns with spots into September? That's crazy and unhealthy!! With better ratio (less does per buck), more does get bred during the same estrus cycle and more fawns are dropped at one time in the spring. Coyotes will have less effect.

It's just that for so long a legal "keeper" buck has been defined the way it is and people don't like change. This is the kind of change we need. Pun intended!

I honestly don't know if antler restrictions are the way to do it, but clearly we need to somehow protect the younger age classes.

GeneRector · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2010, 05:04:51 AM »

Howdy! Texas now has antler restrictions in some counties. A legal buck in these counties must have a 13 inch spread or at least one unbranched antler. In the past any deer with antlers of an inch or more was a legal buck. In the quest to get a deer the first weekend of open season hunters would just look for antlers and then take that buck. Now you have to study the buck for awhile to make sure it has at least one unbranched antler or a 13 inch or better spead. It is difficult to decide in some cases. The deer could be an 8 or 10 pointer but not have a 13 inch spread. Also, a buck that only grows antlers on one side only will never be a legal buck once the antler prongs. You don't see many like this one; however, there is no provision for it in the rules and regs for Texas. Always, Gene

bubba · « **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2010, 11:19:59 PM »

ok so what happens to the hunter who harvests button bucks and puts a DMP on it? I am willing to bet just as many are killed that way as spikes and crotch horns. I am also willing to bet the number of license sales will go down. In my area (6a) I have seen 3 deer so far this season. One was a very nice 8 point 17 inch spread 190 pounds. Well worth waiting for. I got him on 10/30. The other two were does. If I get told I cant harvest one of the three deer I see, and have been 4 years without a DMP, I am going to think long and hard about spending 100 bucks with little chance of a harvest, and I am not going to head south to the war zone. I am really amazed at the people who think they have the power to change nature for their own greed to shoot a monster buck.

Spanky · « **Reply #7 on:** November 21, 2010, 04:55:34 AM »

Quote from: bubba on November 19, 2010, 11:19:59 PM

ok so what happens to the hunter who harvests button bucks and puts a DMP on it? I am willing to bet just as many are killed that way as spikes and crotch horns. I am also willing to bet the number of license sales will go down. In my area (6a) I have seen 3 deer so far this season. One was a very nice 8 point 17 inch spread 190 pounds. Well worth waiting for. I got him on 10/30. The other two were does. If I get told I cant harvest one of the three deer I see, and have been 4 years without a DMP, I am going to think long and hard about spending 100 bucks with little chance of a harvest, and I am not going to head south to the war zone. I am really amazed at the people who think they have the power to change nature for their own greed to shoot a monster buck.

What do you mean by "head south to the war zone"??
Are you referring to the southern zone of NY state? I live and hunt in the southern zone (4c) and am curious as to why you would make that statement.
As for the question asked... I have no problems with antler restrictions. It's been proven to work in other states. I also think the state should give out more DMP's. Alot of guys are meat hunters and will take a spike just because it's legal whereas a doe would be illegal to take. If they had a DMP they could still get their meat deer and let the spike walk. $:-\$
Personally I don't take spikes... I'd rather let them walk and wait for something bigger to come along. 4 point is my personal minimum.
Nothing against someone taking a spike... but the state really needs to get their heads out of their butts with the DMP thing.

Spanky

bubba · « **Reply #8 on:** November 21, 2010, 06:34:54 AM »

the dmp's are based on number of deer in an area. They will not give out more as an incentive to let spikes walk. You are aware you are being hypocritical? You are for antler restrictions, but shoot 4 points? I guess that you are for spike restrictions only? If they give out more dmps, more button bucks will be killed. Seems counter productive to me.

mspaci · « **Reply #9 on:** November 21, 2010, 10:48:46 AM »

Its not about changing nature or greed to shoot a monster buck. If done correctly in a few short there may be many decent bucks running around. You would probably see many more bucks as well if the buck to doe ratio could be brought into correct numbers & the bucks have to search for does. This is the kind of stuff I would like to hear about, does it work or not from your experiences. Please no more inflamitory remarks. I for one would rather see many deer doing what deer do during the rut & not get one then not see anything & shooting a spike or 4 point. As far as the $100, its still the best deal in town. You cant do anything including golf but just once for much less. Mike

bubba · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2010, 12:20:41 PM »

show me the inflammatory remarks. Everything I said was true. if you hunted all season and only saw three or 4 deer and only one was a spie ir crotch you could not shoot, and only got a dmp evey three or 4 years, how long would it take for you to get tired of it? We have 400 acres and we do practice it to a point. However what good does it do to shoot nothing smaller than a 6 and they cross the property line and you hear boom? It may as well be in my freezer and again I ask and no one answers what about all the button bucks that ae taken every fall and a dmp pr ml tag is put on them? If that were to happen what then? It is a buck under the antler restriction size, and you could be ticketed and fned for it. Those button bucks are taken out before they ever get a chance to pass on any genes. I am willing to bet as many of them get killed every year as spikes and crotch horns. If you want to keep kids in the sport, you better allow them to take a buck in the first 2 or 3 years, or they will be gone from the sport. In my onw opinion, it is bad for the sport. But since I am outnumbered and inflammatory, who cares anyway. I say hunt harder and find the bigger bucks.

mspaci · « **Reply #11 on:** November 21, 2010, 02:58:10 PM »

Bubba,Kids always get the green light. Button bucks have been shot by accident for years on DMP permits. Why would that change if the number of permits remained the same, & antler restrictions were in order. They would be legal deer to answer your question, under the under the DMP. Maybe restrictions only makes sense in some areas & not state wide. I know down here we pass alot of small bucks, my one friend passed at least 10 so far. We also all get a DMP every year & many times 2. Maybe your statement might have been beter stated as (it doesnt make sense up north here where we dont have deer numbers) instead of I`m not heading (to the war Zone)? These are the type of opinions I would like to hear, pro or con, would it work or not & why? Anyone with experience? Mike

Spanky · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2010, 03:04:10 PM »

Quote from: bubba on November 21, 2010, 06:34:54 AM

the dmp's are based on number of deer in an area. They will not give out more as an incentive to let spikes walk. You are aware you are being hypocritical? You are for antler restrictions, but shoot 4 points? I guess that you are for spike restrictions only? If they give out more dmps, more button bucks will be killed. Seems counter productive to me.

I'm not being hypocritical. I don't shoot spikes, button bucks, or does. I said my personal minimum is a 4 pointer. There is currently no law in effect against shooting 4 pointers (or spikes for that matter) but if 4 pointers were to be put on the "no take" list I wouldn't have a problem with it. I'd just start shooting bigger bucks. They're out there Bubba... you just gotta look for 'em.

Anyone can shoot a doe or a button buck or a young spike... it's just not my thing... but to each his own.

Spanky

bubba · « **Reply #13 on:** November 22, 2010, 12:40:46 AM »

ok so let me get this straight. It is ok to shoot button bucks with a dmp but not ok to shoot anythng less that 3 points on one side, which is how the law is now. However kids can. seems to me you arent as much for it as you claim, just to make yourself feel better for sooting more bone. Ok I guess. We are lawed to death now. I am willling to bet it will never happen due to the revenue loss. I hope that was not to sensitive or inflammatory for some of you

Spanky · « **Reply #14 on:** November 22, 2010, 02:19:09 AM »

I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I'm just giving my personal opinion. I have taken spikes in the past... I just don't take them nowadays. I don't have a problem with someone else taking one. I understand what you are saying about not seeing alot of deer... some areas just don't hold alot of 'em and a spike might be the only opportunity offered. My family doesn't eat alot of venison so I don't really need the meat... I just hunt for the love of the sport and to enjoy the time in the woods... if I get a shot at a good buck it's a bonus. My opinion is that antler restrictions are good for the deer population and research seems to back that up. As far as button bucks... they're fawns and I don't and wouldn't shoot a fawn, but for a meat hunter with a DMP so be it. In the same token a meat hunter would be better off looking for a larger mature deer... bigger deer means more tasty venison.

Spanky

k · « **Reply #15 on:** November 22, 2010, 04:35:34 AM »

the very thought of antler restrictions inflames me.if you folks with your horn porn fetishes want to only shoot a certain size buck fine,but why impose this on others who don't feel the same way(the majority).and please don't hand the bs about the health of the herd.i live in the southern zone and there are plenty of big bucks around,come and wait for-em instead of blaming those who are happy with a small buck for shooting YOUR future trophy.....karl

bubba · « **Reply #16 on:** November 22, 2010, 05:27:13 AM »

careful K you are inflammatory

The Hermit · « **Reply #17 on:** November 22, 2010, 06:38:22 PM »

There are a lot of good points here. I pick carefully what I want to harvest. I want a 4 year old buck and hopefully it has a decent rack. I have a permit for a doe, so I try for a 3 year old. Everything else, I pass on, being content to just watch them. To each his own.
A couple weeks ago, I took a young lad hunting with me. He passed on a small young doe with this years fawn, only to hear a shot about 1/4 mile away. We found that a guy shot the doe and told us he "coulda got de udder one but his gun jammed". It looked like a large dog. Their out there, shooting anything, and will do so regardless of the laws.
I am not for more laws. My neighbor, on whose property this occured, has now posted all his land too.
In a way, we will control the hunting on over 800 acres. This solves the antler/size/age restrictions for us.

The Hermit

Spanky · « **Reply #18 on:** November 23, 2010, 04:07:00 AM »

Quote from: k on November 22, 2010, 04:35:34 AM

the very thought of antler restrictions inflames me.if you folks with your horn porn fetishes want to only shoot a certain size buck fine,but why impose this on others who don't feel the same way(the majority).and please don't hand the bs about the health of the herd.i live in the southern zone and there are plenty of big bucks around,come and wait for-em instead of blaming those who are happy with a small buck for shooting YOUR future trophy.....karl

OK so you are the type of "hunter" who shoots the first legal spike that is fool enough to walk within range, you assume you know what "the majority" of hunters look for when hunting, You are unlearned when it comes to whitetail biology and admit that there are "plenty of big bucks around" but are happy to take a "small buck".
OK then... happy hunting.

I hunt the southern zone too (4c) and you're right... there are plenty of big bucks around. You just have to know how to get 'em.

Spanky

mspaci · « **Reply #19 on:** November 23, 2010, 04:12:56 PM »

I dont think its a horn fetish, I know I have no burning desire to own more bone, but its nice to have a few more older around, Bubba, I never actually said I was for it, that was your assumption, just that I wanted opinions about it. Yes your remarks previously were looking for a fight, based on your personal opinion. If you have some real input as to this issue, such as a biological or environmental or economical reason for or against please tell us, otherwise please keep the personal remarks to yourself. Mike

DANNY-L · « **Reply #20 on:** November 23, 2010, 04:50:41 PM »

There has to be a reason why other states that started antler restrictions stuck to it. Like maybe it's a good idea!

dukkillr · « **Reply #21 on:** November 23, 2010, 06:21:30 PM »

The thread from the Missouri section when they tried to bring their hunters into the era of modern herd management:
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,144267.0.html

Pretty much identical opinions and staunch opposition rooted in the same, uh, claims...

Thing is, after a couple of years people start to see that it works and the drama is replaced with education and calm... and everyone realizes that it's really a good thing. Ignore the incendiary bombs like, "horn porn" they add nothing to the discussion other than an attempt to invoke emotion in a science based discussion. Take the high road, it will pass and the culture will change... The hunting, the herd, and the future will be better for it.

k · « **Reply #22 on:** November 24, 2010, 03:30:44 AM »

Quote from: Spanky on November 23, 2010, 04:07:00 AM

Quote from: k on November 22, 2010, 04:35:34 AM
the very thought of antler restrictions inflames me.if you folks with your horn porn fetishes want to only shoot a certain size buck fine,but why impose this on others who don't feel the same way(the majority).and please don't hand the bs about the health of the herd.i live in the southern zone and there are plenty of big bucks around,come and wait for-em instead of blaming those who are happy with a small buck for shooting YOUR future trophy.....karl

OK so you are the type of "hunter" who shoots the first legal spike that is fool enough to walk within range, you assume you know what "the majority" of hunters look for when hunting, You are unlearned when it comes to whitetail biology and admit that there are "plenty of big bucks around" but are happy to take a "small buck".
OK then... happy hunting.
I hunt the southern zone too (4c) and you're right... there are plenty of big bucks around. You just have to know how to get 'em.

this is my spike i got sunday spanky

people should be allowed to take the kind of deer they want.please explain to this dumb ole meat hunter how antler restrictions improve the herd other than you see more big bucks.karl

Spanky

charles p · « **Reply #23 on:** November 24, 2010, 05:22:34 AM »

We have a 15" rule, or else there is a $100 fine. Since doing this at our club the last few years, we are seeing more and better bucks. I only shoot does anyway, so it doesn't bother me in the least. We let each kid shoot a small buck, but in no time, the kids start passing them up as well. They learn quicker than the adults. Zero thrill in shooting a buck that should have been passed over, especially if a dozen other hunters could have killed that buck already.

Spanky · « **Reply #24 on:** November 24, 2010, 07:06:15 AM »

Nice buck Karl

He's got a few spikes on him.
That's exactly what I'm talking about with my post... if you let the button bucks and spikes walk they turn into nice bucks like yours.
Obviously your buck has good genetics and I'm sure he's produced a few offspring in his lifetime. His good genetics have been passed on and that's a good thing.
Now hopefully any buck fawns that he would have produced will be able to grow and pass on the same genetics. That's how you end up with nice bucks instead of a bunch of scrub bucks populating an area.

Spanky

k · « **Reply #25 on:** November 24, 2010, 08:43:08 AM »

spanky ; i was lucky enough to stillhunt right into there bedding ground and within 30yds. of this one.even if this one turned out to be a spike i would have been happy and proud to take him.theirs allready enough rules + regs to hunting and it will always be my opinion that QDM is nothing but selfishness + greed and imposing your wants on others...........karl

bubba · « **Reply #26 on:** November 24, 2010, 02:29:06 PM »

Quote from: mspaci on November 23, 2010, 04:12:56 PM

I dont think its a horn fetish, I know I have no burning desire to own more bone, but its nice to have a few more older around, Bubba, I never actually said I was for it, that was your assumption, just that I wanted opinions about it. Yes your remarks previously were looking for a fight, based on your personal opinion. If you have some real input as to this issue, such as a biological or environmental or economical reason for or against please tell us, otherwise please keep the personal remarks to yourself. Mike

yes Mr internet tough guy. I didmt realize you owned this site and could tell me when where and what I could post. So what are your opinions other than the ones you want to impose on others?

possume · « **Reply #27 on:** November 24, 2010, 02:59:43 PM »

antler restrictions are not the answer to big bucks instead its a problem a hi fenced ranch near me used to have nice bucks and only matture bucks where taken after a few years the bucks that was there wasnt getting big after talking to other ranches they figured out it was because the big nice bucks was getting took and leaving the small basket racks to doing the beeding wich meant small genes getting passed on so they started taking the cull bucks and letting the big boys bread and after a couple of years the hunting got good again so now they try to cull the smaller bucks and limit the amount of big bucks taken so imo restrictions arent good for the deer or the hunter

billy_56081 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 24, 2010, 03:16:31 PM »

The only issue I have with the point restrictions is, the little year and a half year old 8's are legal bucks. A little guy with 8 or more points on his first rack has a heck of a staart on the spikes and forkys who are not getting killed.

mspaci · « **Reply #29 on:** November 26, 2010, 07:03:20 AM »

Bubba, No internet tough guy here, I started the thread so ya I guess I would like it to go as planned, just honest facts & observations, not personal stuff. I have been very patient with you & now I am asking politely that you sta yout of it from here. You are obviously not able to post in a nice way & are looking for a fight. You will not find one with me. I am listening to some of the guys who have posted honest unbiased opinions & making up my mind about restrictions. I thought it would be a fun excersise but you are ruining it for everyone, with personal stuff & statements looking for a reaction. Please pm me if you have a statement to make & keep it outa here. By the way I am 6feet 3 inches 300 ponds & if I wanted to be a tough guy it would be in person not on an open forum. So take it for what its worth & save the threats for someone else. Mike

Poll

who is for or against antler restrictions?

Author Topic: Antler restrictions (Read 4084 times)