What would be some good options for a long range Indiana deer rifle?

[teddy12b]

Last Sunday I was hunting with my cousin.  I was using my Puma 92 44mag.  While I was sitting there looking around it was on an open field and I'm used to being in a woods.  He had told me where deer normally come out at and I couldn't help but think I can make that shot easily with many of my rifles, but not my 44mag. 

I spent most of my morning passing time by thinking about how to setup a pistol cartridge rifle that'd be legal in Indiana but could reach out to 300 yards with plenty of deer killing power.  My first thought was maybe a NEF heavy barreled 44mag with a bushnell 3200 10X on it, because that'd be a pretty cheap combo, but I don't know if it'd have the accuracy that far out or not.  I bet I could make that shot with my muzzleloader, but just thinking about the mess and slow rate of fire makes me consider just buying a whole new setup in smokeless powder.

Any thoughts?

[quickdtoo]

If they go to the 1.8" case length, on an H&R platform I'd work on a short necked 35 Remington..... if I lived in Indiana, a 180gr SSP at 2450fps ought to do the trick. 

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,220370.msg1099202769.html#msg1099202769

[dave29]

If they go to the 1.8" case length, on an H&R platform I'd work on a short necked 35 Remington..... if I lived in Indiana, a 180gr SSP at 2450fps ought to do the trick.  

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,220370.msg1099202769.html#msg1099202769

1.625"  now 

I would love to see the 1.8" pass, that's what I am waiting on to do a Wildcat.

[fireball168]

.....how to setup a pistol cartridge rifle that'd be legal in Indiana but could reach out to 300 yards with plenty of deer killing power. 

My first thought was maybe a NEF heavy barreled 44mag with a bushnell 3200 10X on it...

Using the Hornady 225 FTX, maximum load listed in Hornady's data:



Yes, that is 88" of bullet drop from the muzzle and 45.5" drop from a 175 yard zero.

You'll have a whopping 648 ft/lbs of energy remaining.

Something a bit more appropriate within our current confines (example isn't a particularly efficient BC projectile though):

[Vic49]

.44mag is definetly not a 300 yds rifle I would think 200 would be stretching it for clean humane kills.

[quickdtoo]

On an SB2 Handi frame, the 445 Supermag would be a better option than the 44mag, 300gr at ~2000fps is doable in the Supermag and doesn't require an expensive rebore, the chamber can be hand reamed with a rented reamer, the hardest part would be waiting for Starline to make brass!   The 265gr FTX would be a prime candidate IMO.

Tim

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Cal-.430-265-gr-FTX-for-444-Marlin/

Trajectory for Custom .430 Hornady 265gr FTX at 2100 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.225   0.225   0.225   0.225   0.225
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2100   2100   2100   2100
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet   Humidity: 70 Percent   Pressure: 29.53 in/Hg
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2100.0   2594.5   2.47   -0.18   1.13   23430.58   0.000000000
50   1929.0   2189.2   2.27   -1.04   2.86   0.0   0.074531190
100   1767.1   1837.2   2.08   -4.43   4.88   0.0   0.155783768
150   1615.6   1535.5   1.90   -10.6   4.11   0.0   0.244579356
200   1475.8   1281.4   1.74   -20.11   0.0   0.0   0.341757629
250   1350.0   1072.2   1.59   -33.62   -8.11   0.0   0.448088003
300   1240.3   905.1   1.46   -51.91   -20.99   0.0   0.564111556

[Lon371]

 Wouldn't the .460 s&w be a good choice if the change to a 1.80 restriction? The brass seems to be easier to get. Also should have enough butt at the other end.

Lonny

[quickdtoo]

It would be a great choice, I'd use the 300gr SST ML bullet.  

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/store/50-Cal-LNL-Low-Drag-with-45-Cal-300-gr-SST-Bullet/

Trajectory for Custom .452 Hornady 300gr SST at 2400 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.25   0.25   0.25   0.25   0.25
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2400   2400   2400   2400
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet   Humidity: 70 Percent   Pressure: 29.53 in/Hg
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2400.0   3836.3   3.20   -0.18   0.44   23430.58   0.000000000
50   2233.5   3322.4   2.98   -0.79   1.79   0.0   0.064789549
100   2073.5   2863.5   2.76   -3.33   3.33   0.0   0.134494033
150   1920.4   2456.3   2.56   -7.89   2.84   0.0   0.209667203
200   1774.7   2097.7   2.36   -14.81   0.0   0.0   0.290925785
250   1637.3   1785.5   2.18   -24.5   -5.61   0.0   0.378936569
300   1509.3   1517.2   2.01   -37.44   -14.47   0.0   0.474382118

[skinman]

Stick with a muzzleloader. It can be used in both seasons. There is plenty of fire power in them to safely harvest deer at 200 yards or more, depending on your load setup. And if you really want one for distance, consider the Ultimate Muzzleloader that can be seen at ultimate firearms.com. These are 400-500 yard muzzleloader! They would be completely legal to use in Indiana, cause they are a muzzleloader.
Now it would beg the question; if you can use this muzzleloader in Indiana, wouldn't it be nice if the folks at the DNR/Legislature would consider legalizing specific higher calibers instead of case length? Fella's wouldn't have to worry about "wildcat" loads to get around the letter of the law, and it would benefit those who do not handload.

Just food for thought?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

[Vic49]

The Ultimate Muzzleloader would be great if you want to drop between $2000 and $3300 on one. 200 gr. loads, OUCH!!!! I think most guys go with the PCR's just for something different.

[Swampman]

Elmer Keith took a mule deer at 600 yards with a .44 Magnum S&W.  6 1/2 inch barrel I believe.

[teddy12b]

Elmer Keith took a mule deer at 600 yards with a .44 Magnum S&W.  6 1/2 inch barrel I believe.

Good point!

[Vic49]

Elmer Keith took a mule deer at 600 yards with a .44 Magnum S&W.  6 1/2 inch barrel I believe.

Wonder how many tries it took?

[teddy12b]

There was a show on impossible shots where Bob Mundon made a 600 yard shot with his S&W 44mag.  It was a good show, but there wasn't much left by the time it got that far and it took him a couple shots to get the hit also.

I may just have to pick up one of those NEF single shots and work something out with it.  I just know you gotta be able to kill a deer with one of those at 300 yards.  We'll see how Christmas goes, I may have to go shopping for me.

[Vic49]

I've got a pair of Handi's in .44 and a .357max, got me interested on what they would do at 300.
Nikon Ballistics Match shows a 220gr. FTX in .44 zeroed at 100 would be 63.35"s low at 300. That is a lot of holdover.

[teddy12b]

That actually wouldn't be that bad.  I do a lot of long range target shooting out to 1000 yards and that wouldn't be so bad.  The hornady bullets would be a great place to start with working up a load to reach out there.  It can be done.

[Swampman]

I've been known to use a lot of W296 in the .44 mag.  It can go pretty fast

[squirrellluck]

Lot of guys I knew up there just went to handguns in rifle cal. and went that way. I used a contender in 7-30 but no 300 yard shots.

[HappyHunter]

I use a 41 mag Marlin 94.  It is great to 125 yards. 

My Encore 15 inch handgun in 25-06 will hit a paper plate 10 for 10 at 225 yards with a fence post as a rest.  Took two does this year both over 200 yards. 

If they make a change the 460 in a lever gun might be cool.

[TomRob]

Hi:

I'm from the Steuben Co. area. Most woods to hunt, but have a lot of open fields. 200 hundred yards be the most, 300 would not be unheard of. Have you thought of the .500 S&W handgun load. NEF has what you would need in a good. .458 socom from Rock River but more money for the gun.

Just a thought. good shooting and hunting in 2011.

Be safe Tom

[sb6pak]

I use a 44 mag H&R. I took a doe at 213 yards, double lunged her, with Winchester 240 grain jacketed soft points. They drop about 6" at 200 yards.

[Vic49]

You are getting a better trajectory with Winchester than I get with the leverevolutions.??

[SHOOTALL]

Would a 454 casull be legal ? if so Rossi/puma claim its a 300 + yard gun in their rifle . Or if not a 45 colt case some experminting with loads - 300 gr XTP using the back grove to allow for most powder space ? Just a thought

[teddy12b]

I use a 44 mag H&R. I took a doe at 213 yards, double lunged her, with Winchester 240 grain jacketed soft points. They drop about 6" at 200 yards.

Nice!  What distance do you have your rifle zeroed for to only have a 6" drop at 200 yards?

[Lon371]

I use a 44 mag H&R. I took a doe at 213 yards, double lunged her, with Winchester 240 grain jacketed soft points. They drop about 6" at 200 yards.

 What is your load? share you load set up. I am still working on the boys .44 Handi. Thanks

Shootall

Would a 454 casull be legal ? if so Rossi/puma claim its a 300 + yard gun in their rifle . Or if not a 45 colt case some experminting with loads - 300 gr XTP using the back grove to allow for most powder space ? Just a thought

Yes the 454 is legal. On the .45 colt, Dinny uses one I think. Maybe he can share what he thinks on the Colt.

Lonny

[SHOOTALL]

That would interesting . My thought was the 454 gun with 45 Colt rounds loaded to at least freedom arms/ruger power level.

[sb6pak]

I have it dialed in at 100 yrds. At 50 i'm a 1.5'' high, at 150 there is a 1.5'' drop. I changed this year to the leverevolutions with only a 4" drop at 200 yrds they seem to float a couple of inchs to the right at that distance.

[Lon371]

I have it dialed in at 100 yrds. At 50 i'm a 1.5'' high, at 150 there is a 1.5'' drop. I changed this year to the leverevolutions with only a 4" drop at 200 yrds they seem to float a couple of inchs to the right at that distance.

 I think I will try them again. What powder and charge are you using? That is better than the .445 super mag and the .460. Should be a lot cheaper also. Thanks

I use a 44 mag H&R. I took a doe at 213 yards, double lunged her, with Winchester 240 grain jacketed soft points. They drop about 6" at 200 yards.

 What was your load on this one? ^^

Lonny

[Fred McIntire]

Simple.  Scout the area and move closer to the deer trails !   

[Vic49]

I have it dialed in at 100 yrds. At 50 i'm a 1.5'' high, at 150 there is a 1.5'' drop. I changed this year to the leverevolutions with only a 4" drop at 200 yrds they seem to float a couple of inchs to the right at that distance.

Again, you sure are getting a lot better ballistics out of them than I do??