What would be some good options for a long range Indiana deer rifle?

[SHOOTALL]

3 inches of drop in 100 yards , boy wish I had that load when I shot IMHSA . I was shooting a load that was above max in the reloading guides getting over 1700 fps out of a 10.5 inch SBK and between 50 and 150 yards or meters we mesured drop in feet.

[Vic49]

Same here, I get 15 inches of drop at 200yds shooting the same leverevolutin load.

[SHOOTALL]

Same here, I get 15 inches of drop at 200yds shooting the same leverevolutin load.

Yea and that is drop from what you are sighted in to . Add the two togather , or check out line of sight to trejectory of the bullet , at 200 yards its more like a rainbow . And yes I do realize that a rifle adds about 300 fps to the vel. over a handgun . A 30-30 winchester would be hard pressed to do that well.

[quickdtoo]

I get an average of 1763fps with the 225gr FTX ammo in my 22" Handi. The 225gr FTX has a BC of .150, at 1763fps, with a 150yd zero, the round is 3.9" high at 100yds and 10.1" low at 200yds, energy is 907ft/lbs at 100yds and 580ft/lbs at 200yds.

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Cal-.430-225-gr-FTX/

http://www.hornady.com/cgi-bin/ball10.cgi?firearm=Rifle&desc=.430%22+225gr+FTX&wght=225&coef=.150&vel=1763&sight=1.5&temp=59&barom=29.53&zero=150&wspd=0&calcbutton=Calculate

[SHOOTALL]

Elmer Keith took a mule deer at 600 yards with a .44 Magnum S&W.  6 1/2 inch barrel I believe.

Wonder how many tries it took?

At a wounded animal.

[SHOOTALL]

Quickdtoo that's a far cry from the 6 inch drop at 200 yards with Winchester factory 240 gr loads stated earlier by another poster. Even with your data the bullet could have risen higher above line of sight than what is shown . IE was the bullet still rising in its arc above line of sight at 100 yards or already on its downward side ? Bullets pass thru line of sight twice if not interrupted .

[quickdtoo]

That's a calculated trajectory using Hornady's ballistic calculator, click the links, that's why I posted them! 

Tim

[mcwoodduck]

With 40mm/ 1.6" being the over all case length
any of the whisper rounds like 300 whisper or other 221 based cases.  I know the Whisper is a trade mark but similar cases can be made.
These little cases should give you the bullet mass to take a deer cleanly at 200 to 300 yards.
Tuning a short or micro bolt action would not be hard.
Building a T/C contender or Encore carbine too would not be hard. Actually the easist way to go if you already have one just call SSK and order a barrel.
There are many answers to your question.  The real answer is what are you willing to spend to get there.
Custom rifle?  Custom Super Short mag.  Custom case like a 50 BMG case cut to 40mm necked to 358.  Powder cap. should be about what a 358 Win would be.   Or neck it to .375 or .411/.416 and lunch 300 to 400 grain bullets at 2200 to 2300 FPS
But you may as well ask what car should I get to drive to work.
Again many answers and huge range of costs from a used Yugo to a Bently.
I would e very good at spending your money for a 300 Yard deer killing machine that uses a 1.6" case.

[SHOOTALL]

That's a calculated trajectory using Hornady's ballistic calculator, click the links, that's why I posted them! 

Tim

Don't need to , wasn't saying "you" were wrong .

[quickdtoo]

Here's Winchester's ballistic data on their 240gr round, rifle MV is 1760fps, BC is .158, a 160yd zero would be 4¾" high at 100yds, and 8" low at 200yds, calculated with Sierra Infinity software.

Tim

http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/super-x/hollow-soft-point/Pages/X44MHSP2.aspx

Trajectory for .430" 240gr Winchester at 1760 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.158   0.158   0.158   0.158   0.158
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 1760
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet   Humidity: 70 Percent   Pressure: 29.53 in/Hg
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   1760.0   1650.5   1.88   -0.18   1.69   23430.58   0.000000000
50   1548.4   1277.4   1.65   -1.53   3.44   0.0   0.090910015
100   1362.6   989.3   1.45   -6.7   4.75   0.0   0.194278956
150   1209.3   779.2   1.29   -16.57   1.35   0.0   0.311337601
200   1094.7   638.5   1.17   -32.39   -7.99   0.0   0.442031947
250   1014.4   548.3   1.08   -55.44   -24.57   0.0   0.584649727
300   953.8   484.7   1.02   -86.93   -49.58   0.0   0.737329263

[mcwoodduck]

Here's Winchester's ballistic data on their 240gr round, rifle MV is 1760fps, BC is .158, a 160yd zero would be 4¾" high at 100yds, and 8" low at 200yds, calculated with Sierra Infinity software.

Tim

http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/super-x/hollow-soft-point/Pages/X44MHSP2.aspx

Trajectory for .430" 240gr Winchester at 1760 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.158   0.158   0.158   0.158   0.158
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 1760
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet   Humidity: 70 Percent   Pressure: 29.53 in/Hg
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   1760.0   1650.5   1.88   -0.18   1.69   23430.58   0.000000000
50   1548.4   1277.4   1.65   -1.53   3.44   0.0   0.090910015
100   1362.6   989.3   1.45   -6.7   4.75   0.0   0.194278956
150   1209.3   779.2   1.29   -16.57   1.35   0.0   0.311337601
200   1094.7   638.5   1.17   -32.39   -7.99   0.0   0.442031947
250   1014.4   548.3   1.08   -55.44   -24.57   0.0   0.584649727
300   953.8   484.7   1.02   -86.93   -49.58   0.0   0.737329263

Not to quibble but should't one of the bullet drops be 0 Zero?
All of the ballistic tables show a 0 point.
If you sight in the rifle at 75 yards you will have +1 inch at at the muzzle and -1 inch at 100 and 4" at 150 and 10 at 200, or something like that.
If you sight in the rifle at 100 yards the drop to 200 will be 7.5" but will be 3" high at 50 yards, for example.
The bullet forms and arch.  the slower the bullet the larger the slope of the arch.
If You sight in the rifle at 150 or 200 yards with as your zero  300 yards will be a 20 or 22" drop but you will be 15" high at 100 yards as an example.
The time of flight having more to do with the bullet drop than the shape of the bullet out of a 44 mag.

[quickdtoo]

Dunno why it listed drop as -0.18 at the muzzle, but here it is again in 10yd increments to show the 160yd zero.

Tim

Trajectory for Custom .430" 240gr Winchester at 1760 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.158   0.158   0.158   0.158   0.158
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 1760   1760   1760   1760
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range Velocity Energy Momentum Drop Bullet Path Wind Drift Time of Flight
(Yards) (Ft/Sec) (Ft/Lbs) (Lb-Sec) (inches) (inches) (inches) (Seconds)
0   1760.0   1650.5   1.88   0.0   -1.5   0.0   0.000000000
10   1715.9   1568.7   1.83   -0.06   -0.26   0.0   0.017263508
20   1672.6   1490.6   1.78   -0.23   0.86   0.0   0.034972266
30   1630.3   1416.1   1.74   -0.53   1.85   0.0   0.053139890
40   1588.9   1345.1   1.69   -0.96   2.72   0.0   0.071780122
50   1548.5   1277.6   1.65   -1.53   3.44   0.0   0.090906514
60   1509.1   1213.4   1.61   -2.24   4.03   0.0   0.110532161
70   1470.8   1152.6   1.57   -3.11   4.45   0.0   0.130669564
80   1433.6   1095.1   1.53   -4.13   4.72   0.0   0.151330331
90   1397.6   1040.8   1.49   -5.33   4.82   0.0   0.172525260
100   1362.8   989.6   1.45   -6.7   4.74   0.0   0.194263753
110   1329.4   941.6   1.42   -8.26   4.48   0.0   0.216553525
120   1297.2   896.6   1.38   -10.02   4.02   0.0   0.239400440
130   1266.5   854.6   1.35   -11.98   3.35   0.0   0.262807764
140   1237.3   815.6   1.32   -14.16   2.46   0.0   0.286775831
150   1209.6   779.5   1.29   -16.57   1.35   0.0   0.311301825
160   1183.5   746.2   1.26   -19.21   0.0   0.0   0.336379497
170   1159.0   715.7   1.24   -22.11   -1.6   0.0   0.361998782
180   1136.1   687.7   1.21   -25.26   -3.45   0.0   0.388147316
190   1114.7   662.1   1.19   -28.68   -5.58   0.0   0.414810005
200   1094.9   638.8   1.17   -32.38   -7.99   0.0   0.441969221

[dinky2]

BE THANKFUL INDIANA.  HOW'D YOU LIKE TO HAVE OHIO LAWS?  OHIO DEER GUN LAW MAKERS APPARENTLY HAVE THEIR HEAD[YOU KNOW WHERE]. WE HAVE IT SO YOU CAN , FOR INSTANCE, HUNT WITH A .460 HANDGUN.  BUT DON'T PUT A STOCK ON IT AND MAKE IT A RILFLE  [EVEN IF 16" BBL].  YOU MIGHT HIT WHAT YOU'RE SHOOTIN AT. NOT THAT THE RANGE OF THE ABOVE IS ANY GREATER THAN A 12GA. SABOT BULLET. IT'S JUST THAT THEY'RE A BUNCH OF IGNORANT EGG HEADS EXISTING IN A ANTIQUE FRAME OF KEEPING OHIO STUPID AND BEHIND. I APPLAUD YOU INDIANA AND HOPE YOU GIVE THE 1.8" CASE YOUR BEST CONSIDERATION.  I WONDER IF THOSE WHO MAKE OHIO'S LAWS KNOW A RIFLE FROM A SHOTGUN ??            PERHAPS WITH A NEW GOVENOR SOMETHING POSITIVE WILL HAPPEN............GOD BLESS

[Lon371]

 dinky2
   
 That was our rule here. Handguns as big as you like, but rifles only a case length of 1.62 at the moment. Hopefully the length will grow to 1.8 this year. But I will not get my hopes up yet I was thinking about a 7-30 waters for my TC Contender handgun version, until they change to rifle. So I kept my .357 max 14" hunter to go with my H&R Maxi

Lonny

[SHOOTALL]

Dunno why it listed drop as -0.18 at the muzzle,

Because that is the mesurement from the line of sight (sights / scope) to bore . Reason so many pick up hoods get shot 

[quickdtoo]

Because that is the mesurement from the line of sight (sights / scope) to bore . Reason so many pick up hoods get shot  

Nope, that setting in the software is 1.5". I figured out the problem later, there apparently were some corrupt tables in the software install, I ran another prediction later and all the velocities were the same all the way out to 300yds!! Wouldn't that be a flat shooting son-of-a-gun!!   I uninstalled and reinstalled the software and all was well.

Tim

[Vic49]

Just read the new DNR rules proposal as well as talked to my CO buddy and looks like 1.8" cartridges may be included.

[teddy12b]

Well guys, the more I think about this, the more I'm still kind of stuck on the 44mag.  I know they're probably going to allow the 1.8 case (along with shorten the seasons) but I'm getting maxed out on how many different calibers I want to have around and reload for and something about that 44mag single shot has got my interests.  Another thing that makes me interested in the 44 mags is that I just noticed I could buy the survivor stocks in Midwayusa.com.  I've always liked the idea of those stocks and wouldn't mind trying one out. 

For you guys with the good shooting NEF 44 mags, how much work was involved getting your most accurate load?  I guess I could be up for a project gun but ultimately I do want something pretty accurate.

[srussell]

Elmer Keith took a mule deer at 600 yards with a .44 Magnum S&W.  6 1/2 inch barrel I believe.

Wonder how many tries it took?

At a wounded animal.

and he said that the animal was wounded and that was the reason for that shot think it took 3/4 shots to walk it in. he also never recommended shooting at game at that range with a 44

[Greenhunter]

First option is the Ruger #1-S in .475 Linbaugh.
Second is the T/C Encore in .357 Herrett.
The herrett is currently slightly too long but the neck can be cut down .10" to be legal.
it will not hurt to do this. If Indiana allows 1.8" then you are good to go!
The .357 Herrett in a rifle barrel is a full power Thumper which is just short of the .35 Remington. 

[quickdtoo]

The 35 Rem loaded to higher pressures in a stronger platform than traditional leverguns can be an awesome little round, 180gr @ 2450fps is easy to do.  

It too could be trimmed to meet the proposed 1.8" max length, it should work great in a single shot.

Tim

[schoolmaster]

12b  I took my NEF 44 mag out with the winchester white box 240 gr. softpoints and after three rounds at shorter ranges, it grouped 1.5 inches at 100 yards. No load developement needed.

[Vic49]

12b  I took my NEF 44 mag out with the winchester white box 240 gr. softpoints and after three rounds at shorter ranges, it grouped 1.5 inches at 100 yards. No load developement needed.

Same here using the Hornady Leverevolution ammo

[teddy12b]

That sounds good to me!

[Lon371]

357mag 18¾" blued, w/sights, drilled & tapped for scope base, part# F403635

35 Rem. blue std.contour 22" drilled & tapped for scope base, part# F404489

Which would be better for a short necked .35 rem for Indiana 1.80", should they go there? Would the short jump be ok in the .35 barrel? or better to rechamber the .357 barrel?

Lonny

[quickdtoo]

The 35 Rem barrel will likely have a longish throat like most H&Rs, the 357 barrel rechambered will have a shorter throat length, mine did anyway, I throated it because it was too short, you can have the gunsmith put what ever throat length you want in the 35 Rem rechamber. It may be a moot point tho, H&R doesn't have many of the 35 Rem barrels in stock.

Tim

[Lon371]

  I thought it was one of the newest barrel offerings  Oh well, maybe I will wait and try for a .357 barrel and go that route. I was just thinking dollar wise the .35 barrel would be the better deal.

Thanks
Lonny

[quickdtoo]

It is, but that's all they have in stock at this time, it and several other barrels or rifles aren't advertised, they're only available in SE region markets apparently, it and the 35 Whelen for example for the Mississippi primitive season. 

Tim

[Tom Threetoes]

Quick's got me to thinking pretty hard about a short necked .35 Rem. I could have a .357 mag barrel fitted to my CR carbine, ream it to Max, and then if the new regs are accepted rechamber the Max to a short necked .35 Rem. I'm wondering if the twist rates are the same for the two 35s?

[quickdtoo]

The 357mag will likely be a 1:15½" twist, that's what everyone is reporting including both of mine, dunno what the H&R 35 Rem is for sure, but the SAAMI spec is 1:16".

Tim