Shooting the 1 inch bore. Show us your gun and accessories

[Double D]

The Gentlemen from Seacoast Artillery posted the Following in another thread.

    Based on our experience firing about 100, 15/16" dia. steel ball bearings, lots and lots of cast lead shot of .985" dia. and 20 cast zinc shot of .960" dia. we can safely tell you we WILL NOT be firing more steel ball bearings.  They are far too dangerous because of energetic bounce-back.  Lead shot is by far the easiest to produce in quantity and zinc would come in second for being accurate and less weight than lead, but slightly more hassle to cast.

...

We have 7, 1" bore dia. cannons now and it is a great size with shot or bolts in rifled cannon.  Lots of fun can be had with this size cannon and without huge expenditure of powder.

Mike and Tracy

M&T

You have a very valid point about 1 inch bore.  It makes for a very good bore size.  If you build yourself a cannon with 1 inch bore you will have a very respectable size cannon.  It will not be so large however, that it becomes a storage problem. Cannons with a 1 inch bore are also a good size for a one man crew.

You mention the conservative use of powder, that's a big plus for the bore.  

So show us you 1 inch bore guns and the tools and equipment you use to shoot it!  

I'll start it with a gun that is familiar to those of you who have been around this board for a while.  

Back in the early 1980's I built a  model of M-1841 42 PDR from the U.S.S. Cairo.  The gun was built by up scaling the model  plans sold by the late William F. Green. Green drew the plans by taking measurements from the actual gun.  I built the gun with 4140 and it was my first personal turning project on my lathe.  I was going to college at the time and was learning how to use a lathe and doing the cannon barrel at home on the weekends.  The deep hole drilling was done on a school lathe as a deep hole drilling project.  Prior to this build I had no idea how to operate a lathe or how a lathe operated.





Green called this an M-1841 on his plans even though those in the know tell me that it is an 1845.  The NPS says the 3 42 PDR’s recovered from the Cairo were dated 1837 and two dated 1856.  

The Port bow gun was the one on the carriage with elevator as found in the  Green plans.  According to NPS the port bow gun is an Iron Rifle.   Marks:  right trunnion: K & W/F.P.F.  Right rim base: 312.  Left trunnion: 1856.  Base of breech: 8359.  Muzzle face:  No.28/B.H.  Top, between trunnions: U.S.  Pitted.  History:  salvaged with U.S.S. Cairo; was port bow gun.

So most likely this gun is model after an 1845 pattern.

I shoot this gun a lot in the early days, but for almost 20 years it was just a pretty face sitting in the corner.  When I retired in 2008 one of the priority projects was to refurbish this gun and get back to shooting it.  Arsenal rebuild M-1841 42 PDR model[/u][/url]

In the early days of this gun I used hollow base slugs made with this mould.  



Even though this is a smooth bore gun the slugs from this mould flew straight and nose on.  I always had problems with the base plug sticking.  When I tried shooting the slugs cast solid they would key hole.  The solid slugs also were easily damaged and would get stuck in the bore.

I also have a round ball mould that I use to cast  lead balls.  This ball shoots quite well.



I have  tried steel one inch balls to which I glued wooden sabots .  I wasn't all that happy with the results.  I am going to try loading with out the sabot attached with the remaining steel balls, but I am not optimistic.  



I would like to try zinc, but need a mould.

I also made my own implements; tapered head rammer, worm from Dom Carpenter and a small paint roller swab.



I use cartridges in my one inch gun.  This is about the smallest caliber that you can make foil cartridges in.




I have one other Inch gun.  It is a Parrot gun ready to shoot but needs hardware on its carriage.  I would like to find a 25 mm rifled barrel to line it and make it a Parrot Rifle.



So tell us about your one inch gun!!!

[seacoastartillery]

     Double D.,   That's a really good idea.  Those of us who do have some experience with this 1" bore size, and I'm considering the 1" size to loosely include the 1.000, 1.067", and 1.167" bore guns and rifles we have built and the 1.000" and the 1.025" bore guns we have bought.  Basically they all require pretty much the same equipment for loading and cleaning.  Just give me a day to round up all the loose loading and shooting implements and the cannons too, which are all over the place and then take a few pictures. 

     Oh, bye the way, why do you think we chose the 1.000" bore size as our 'Gold Standard' for easily transported and shot and cleaned cannon?  Kind of a trick question I guess.  None of those attributes are the reason! The reason we chose the 1.000" Bore is this:  The projectiles that we will shoot most often (85% of the time), be they Round Shot or Rifled Bolt, must be capable of creating a visible disturbance at 1,000 yards on a dry, dirt, plain or hillside.  This is the absolutely most important criteria for us. When you see that puff of dust float away from in front of or behind your 1,000 yard refrigerator box or 55 gallon barrel, you will know why we choose this size cannon!

     It's simply the smallest size cannon that will make the impact VISIBLY known and also be easily transported, easily loaded, shot and cleaned and also cheap to buy projectile metal and powder for.

Until tomorrow,

Tracy & Mike

[Cat Whisperer]

I understand the 1000yd visibility of impact!  I still remember the Honest John launched next to the reviewing stand AND SEEING the explosion 5 miles or so down range (Ft Sill).

[Double D]

I understand the 1000yd visibility of impact!  I still remember the Honest John launched next to the reviewing stand AND SEEING the explosion 5 miles or so down range (Ft Sill).

Tim you are incorrigible.

[1Southpaw]

I had the pleasure of viewing from the stands the "atomic"cannon . Our barracks were just a stone throw from the Atomic guys . They had two HE projectiles on the front steps . One on each side of the front enterance door .
The gave a demo one day and the guys in my unit got to attend . Impressive set of prime mover trucks . They wheeled in before the review stands set up and fired a round down range . The recoil was impressive .
Wish I had taken more pictures when stationed there. They has all sorts of captured artillery on display . German , Jap , etc.
I was there in January through April in 1960.

[Double D]

Did they have any one inch guns?

[RocklockI]

An Honest John Rocket ? Thats one of my favs as far as older rockets and mislels ...Misoles ..... DAMN it

you know Misseles or some damn thing it was a big ol buldge headed thing . Anyway my all time fav. old missalidge wise is the Bomrac or close to it  !

A winged antiaircraft thingage with boster rockets .

I have a 'would be' 1 incher in the works but even with a chamber I will back off to .75 ...... she should ring nicley   

I must make a 1 incher since I ..."came into" ..... a bunch of 1.00 " steel balls ..... Humm Maybe my personal Tater 38 ..... I wouldnt giveanyone that caliber , but I would / will for myself . As I got all these balls ....... BUT not nearly as many balls as the TSA ....

Thanks for the balls DD !   

Gary

[Cannoneer]

DD,
I've got the 1-inch bore SBR Dahlgren barrel and powder; now all I need is a carriage, implements, and balls!  Come to think of it, I suppose I should use Fg in it, so I don't even really have the powder.

[GGaskill]

http://lassengunsmithing.com/movie/24PounderFiring.wmv



This is the 1" bore gun I currently have; it is a 1/5 scale 24 pounder of the English style as used on the Constitution.  The upper link is a short firing video from last year's Montana Model Cannon Shoot.  I really need to finish this and give it to my friend.

[seacoastartillery]

    Well I can't find any of our loading implements;  maybe Mike has our shooting box in the trunk of his car which is in Calif. right now.  I did find pics of 3 of our 1" guns and one of a very important implement in use.

Tracy

Our first four groove rifled cannon, the ugliest cannon ever made, and the first 'Safety Rammer' that we used for two years before making a more refined one out of oak dowel stock and a steel, double-ended socket piece bent in a U-shape which joins the two polished and tapered oak dowels.  The pic here is the perfect one to show how, even before the bolt is loaded flush with the muzzle, both of your hands are behind the muzzle and outside the danger zone.  Just make the 'handle' twice as long as the 'rammer'.  Here we have 24" and 48 " for the handle.  This crude looking cannon shoots 5 shot, 3" groups all day long at 100 yards with a 7 oz. steel bolt and 400 grains BP.



Here is our first prototype cannon tube with authentic, Parrott gain twist rifling.  2" to 3" groups are the norm with this tube, and the Safety Rammer is in use here as well.  Bull crap on all that macho stuff.  We would like to keep our fingers attached, thank you very much!




This is a 1/6 scale smoothbore 100 Pdr. Parrott that was the First Prototype tube and mock-up platform we built back in 2002.  The tube is a heavily modified 1/3 scale 10 Pdr. Parrott tube sold to us by SBR.  We bought three of these and used two of these fully lined 1" bore cannon tubes.  We still have this one and have fired 15/16ths steel ball bearings from it.  They give a 6 or 7 inch group at 50 yards with 5 shots.  The bulbous rear hemisphere of the 100 Pdr. Parrott is missing here and the rimbases are WAY too big.  A particle board base and thin piece of cardboard form the platform and pintle pedestal.  At gun shows everyone stuck a finger in the bore and asked, "Where's the rifling?"  




Yep, it's a smoothbore!




This is the type of muzzle our 100 Pounder has now.  Although it's slightly larger than 1", what's .067" between friends?  The 7 oz., steel bolt, with a historically accurate "chill nose" tip on it and a turned skirt, 3/16" deep and .020' thick flies accurately at 50 to 1,000 yards. At less than 50 yards some keyholing is evident on the target paper.  Between 40 and 50 yards full stabilization occurs.  




And here is the first prototype oak dowel Safety Rammer we used at the First Annual (Almost) New River Valley Cannon and Mortar Shoot in Floyd, Virginia in 2007.  It has the U-shaped, mild steel, socket connector and an experimental, one handed, 29" long handle with a 5 degree divergence from the rammer.  Our new one, which is currently our production model, has gone back to a long, two handed, handle at 42" long and a 2 degree divergence.  This feels best to us for balance and will fly away without hindrance if a 'premature' should occur.

[Victor3]

I think a 1" bore cannon is about the best size for many folks, for many reasons:

1. Ease of transport and use, so you'll probably shoot it more often than a larger cannon. Low risk of back problems moving a smaller cannon.

2. Economy (both to buy, and to feed). Costs can go up drastically with larger bores.

3. Easy to cast projectiles for with a small pot and simple mould.

4. Larger bore than any shoulder fired gun most of us will ever have (or ever want to fire. Ouch!)

5. You know that something significant happened down range. THWACK! Big kaboom and plenty of smoke.

6. Can be made on a smallish lathe, and don't have to be a year long, expensive project like larger guns can turn into.

7. Don't look like Weapons of Mass Discombobulation if Mr. Ranger stops by (Important in CA).

8. Shorter required range means there are more places to shoot them.

9. Easier to sell and ship than larger guns if you decide to get rid of it.

10. And most importantly..... The Wife prolly won't kill you for buying that "cute" little 1" bore cannon. She may just do so if a truck shows up at your house with a full scale gun on a trailer. How you gonna hide THAT in the garage?



 Personally, I also feel that a smaller cannon is generally safer than a larger one.

 Remember, in all things, safety first!

[Double D]

I think a 1" bore cannon is about the best size for many folks, for many reasons:

1.   Low risk of back problems moving a smaller cannon.

 

 

[seacoastartillery]

     Love that list, Victor, especially number 5.  AND, with a photo like your Life Ring photo, how could we possibly forget 'SAFETY FIRST' !!!

     A word about safety in firing cannons is in order here.  We always build our cannons with a high degree of safety and we always try to shoot them that way too.  From the series of pictures below, even if you are new to this hobby, you can easily see that a 1" Bore Dia. Cannon IS NO TOY!!  The potential for destruction of intended and unintended targets is definitely there.  Before you light a fuse or pull a lanyard, please, please check the area carefully behind your target.  Nuff said.

     On to the pics!  These projectiles represent about 1/3 of our total collection.  They are the best ones I found to illustrate certain points about shooting 1" bore cannons.  Please feel free to ask any questions you may have about any of them. Just refer to the projo photo by number for those questions specifically about one particular solid shot or bolt.  The description Key follows photo #10.

     Six or seven of these have been shown before, but never, I believe, have we shown the base of each bolt before.  There is one beauty that Lorenz has in his collection, a Brooke bolt, nicely rusted, that he found on the surface at 2,200 yards last year.  I just rediscovered 3 that I lost track of for 5 years, one of which flew out to 3,250 yards, almost two miles!

Ask any question you might have.  Yes, you can make these bolts on a mini-lathe, a 7 X 10, 12 or 14 works very well.  We made the first 50 or 60 on a 7 X 12 mini.

Tracy and Mike


This photo was picked because the bolt with the curved rock gouge illustrates that the bolt was indeed spinning as it impacted the earth.






















Key to 1” Projo Photos

1   31/32”  Steel Ball Bearing

2   15/16”  Steel Ball Bearing

3   .985”  Dia. Lead ball mold

4   Made by Jeff Tanner jeff@ballmoulds.co.uk

5   6 oz. early exp. truncated cone bolt w/.014” thk. skirt which blew off

6   Early 6 oz. chill-nose Parrott bolt w/.020” thk. Skirt which stayed intact with 350 gr. BP

7   Exp. 1.067” dia. 5 oz. high vel. Tungsten core bolt which penetrated .712” deep in .750” in boiler plate 850 gr. BP

8   First 1.067” Dia. Parrott bolt

9   7 oz. Parrott bolt penetrated 22” hard prairie sod at 5 feet. 400gr. BP

10   7 oz. Parrott bolt fired with 300 gr. BP found at 1,250 yards on surface

11   7 oz. Parrott bolt fired with 400 gr. BP found at 3250 yards on surface.  Scar on ogive proves rotation

12   Brass Sabot Parrott Display Bolt w/ large  chill-nose

13   Brass Sabot Parrott Display Shell

14   Brass Sabot Parrott Disply Bolt w/ small dia.   Chill-Nose

15   6 oz. Parrott, Gage Pin cored, penetrator bolt w/1/2” dia. Boiler plate punched plug .407 thk.

16   U-channel 4 oz. penetrator bolt without a hardened core piece

17   1.167” Dia. Brooke Brass Ratchet Sabot Display Bolt

18   First Milled Base Brooke Bolt found at 825 yards  Richocheted 4 times

19   Attempted Ύ” boiler plate penetration test w/ Parrott ½” dia. Hardened 0-1 steel penetrator core and 12L14 steel carrier which ‘bamana peeled’  Penetration was almost 11/16”.

20   S-7 steel penetrator with 3” pointed radius ogive hardened to 57 Rc on the ‘C’ Scale.  12L14 sabot took rifling nicely with 1,550 gr. BP driving it.  It penetrated 1 full Inch of Boiler Plate at 2.5 feet.

[Victor3]

 Hey, my 1st cupie, and for back safety (?)

 M&T, I know you guys talked about such things before, but on your future rifled bbl/rifled liner offerings, I'm betting that a 1" would be a very popular bore size.

 50 cal rifled cannons are kinda ho-hum, but some great things in the accuracy and 'substantial' depts could be acomplished with a 1" bore. It would really open up opportunities for those who want to go to a larger rifled bore but can't afford a 3" Parrott.

[dominick]

Here's the set-up I use.  The barrel is 12" long and can also be lifted off the base and held vertical for pouring in powder as an option.  I use a 3 OZ. cannon ball sinker [.966" diameter] for ammo. It uses a quoin for elevation and the entire package weighs less than 20 pounds. Happy Thanksgiving!

[seacoastartillery]

Hey, my 1st cupie, and for back safety (?)

 M&T, I know you guys talked about such things before, but on your future rifled bbl/rifled liner offerings, I'm betting that a 1" would be a very popular bore size.

 50 cal rifled cannons are kinda ho-hum, but some great things in the accuracy and 'substantial' depts could be acomplished with a 1" bore. It would really open up opportunities for those who want to go to a larger rifled bore but can't afford a 3" Parrott.

     Victor, congrats on that cupie!  We think you are spot on with your bet on the 1" bore size in a cannon liner, sleeve or cannon blank.  We have had several requests for such sleeves or cannon blanks in the past few months via email.  We are only 7 months away from experiments which will lead to several products in the 1" range.  Once again, we must first finish the Krupps (looks like last week in Dec. now with delivery sometime in January) and also
we must finish the Brooke cannons and deliver them in early August 2011.  Then we will allow 3 months of 1" sleeve and cannon blank development work before offering them to interested parties.  We are delaying the start of the third cannon in our 1/6 scale Magnificent Seacoast Gun Series the Big, Bad 150 Pounder, (8") Armstrong Seacoast Rifle until the fall of 2012.  This will give us necessary construction and range time to finish the final version of the golf ball size cannon designed to shoot those steel balls that DD helped us get last year.  We hope to bring a prototype to the Second Cut Bank, Montana Cannon Shoot in August of 2011.

     I think that the ultimate in down-range, visual, mayhem and still be within the realm of easy-to-handle, transport and cheap to shoot, rifled cannon would be what the American inventor Hotchkiss was producing in Paris, France in the 1880s and 90s, the 37mm rifled gun, (1.457").  I'm always dreaming about retirement projects!!

Tracy and Mike

A little bit later on Dom's excellent wet and dry sponges; that's the way we make 'em!!

[Victor3]

 M&T,

 Whatever my (now very limited) free time allows in the future, my next cannon will be an accurate one. I look forward to seeing what you're planning to offer in 1" rifled products.

 In my experience, a few guys I've known who've bought a cannon after they see mine lose interest fairly quickly after they discover that accuracy is limited. However, I know that what you guys make can hit a target, along with the "fire & smoke" satisfaction a cannon provides.

 That's a very good combination...

[Blaster]

Here's my heavy little 1-inch Dahlgren built by SBR.  Great little shooter with cast iron carriage.  Has a brass slap hammer but a fuse will easily fit right down the musket nipple if I desire to fire with a regular ole fuse.

[Blaster]

Here's my heavy little 1-inch Dahlgren built by SBR.  Great little shooter with cast iron carriage.  Has a brass slap hammer but a fuse will easily fit right down the musket nipple if I desire to fire with a regular ole fuse.

Looks like the picture was lost in transmission.  Oh, no big deal anyhow.  I'll try it again.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/bobjan/Korkcannon007-1.jpg

[Double D]

Pictures show up real nice  Bob all three times....I have another picture of it.

[Blaster]

Thanks Doug.  Don't know what happened with my first posting of that pix.  I made the post on Nov 29th and the picture was included and showed up in the thread just as it was supposed to.  I thought I'd check out the thread to see if any comments on my Dahlgren on Dec 2nd and there was no picture included with my Nov 29th post.  Blasted thing kinda disappeared so I thought I'll fix it by quoting my earlier post and do the pix again.  Wouldn't you just know that after I made the second post, the first one came back with the picture.  Tried to delete the second one since didn't want to waste band width on a duplicate - found can't delete our own posts.  So..............

[Double D]

Your not wasting band width on that gun...  That barrel and carriage are one of the most eye pleasing guns made.


.

[GGaskill]

The missing picture is probably just a delay in the browser rendering the window.

[Cannoneer]

I have the feeling that this subject may have already been discussed elsewhere, but Blaster's photo just triggered this question; are any of our sponsors currently making a steel 1-inch ball mold for sale?