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Author Topic: Sorting the value of things. (The great Ponzie scheem)  (Read 465 times)

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Offline blind ear

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Sorting the value of things. (The great Ponzie scheem)
« on: November 20, 2010, 01:28:00 AM »
What are things worth? Land crop production, manufactureing production, Houseing values, the strength of consumers, the rise and fall of the stock market?

The base value of land was once considered to be equal to it's production value for a 10 year period (or some such number). Now with the "value" of crops plus the potential added by bio fuels,  wind availability and solar surface and light hours, how do we know?

Manufactureing was dependent on consumption of the product in the competative market, now we have the added value of stock growth whitch is often not real such as the tech stocks that never made an actual operateing profit but the stocks soared.

The value of "everything" (The Great Casino of the Stock Market), is hanging on such intangible "potentials", the same mechanism that put the houseing market at the levels that it attained, with the same potential for failure.

The continued gowth of the Casino depends on all of the players staying in the game and no deflation getting involved. Everyone must believe it will go up for ever, it never has.

What will be the fact of reality be that trips the lever that causes everyone to run for cover and allow deflation of values and inflation of costs (interest) to kick in? On the 50 year average for a true depression we are 40 years overdue.

No one should want it to happen because of the terrible concequences a true depression brings, but the real value of food, shelter, cloathing and the value of life it's self will have to claim it's place in the end.

My rambleings. eddiegjr


 
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Offline Brett

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Re: Sorting the value of things. (The great Ponzie scheem)
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2010, 03:33:38 AM »
It does appear that the value of things today seems to be an arbitrary number based solely on what a person/persons is/are willing to pay not on any tangible criteria as you pointed out.  And as you noted the whole house of cards could very well come tumbling down if enough players decide to walk away from the table. 

Of course the antiques and collectibles market has been based on this same system from day one.  Is some hundred year old pistol really worth $2,000? Is some baseball card worth $700?  The old gun is just an assembly of machined metal parts and the baseball card is just cardboard and ink.  If you looked at it rationally neither is worth very much if anything.  Desire plays a bigger part in the equation than does rationality.  Those items demand those prices because enough people desire to poses them.     
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Sorting the value of things. (The great Ponzie scheem)
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2010, 05:07:16 AM »
This is why I subtitled it "The Great Ponzi Scheem". It doesn't reflect true value or earnings and the government is takeing taxpayer money and useing it in a fashion that they tell us is creating value but we all know they are lying. Because the stock market keeps going up and they stopped the BIG banks  from failing, do we really believe things are good or getting better? Whom is keeping this house of cards standing other than the tax payers? eddiegjr
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Oath Keepers: start local
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“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
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An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
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everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Sorting the value of things. (The great Ponzie scheem)
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2010, 07:09:38 AM »
More insider tradeing to bolster our confidence. We have to be crazy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101122/bs_nm/us_hedgefunds_fbi
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Oath Keepers: start local
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“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
-
An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
"I have seen the enemy and I think it's us." POGO
St Judes Childrens Research Hospital

Offline myronman3

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Re: Sorting the value of things. (The great Ponzie scheem)
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2010, 07:24:34 AM »
just wait until it comes out that the government has been using "bailout" funds to artifically tweek the buying and selling on wallstreet.   there is a HUGE amount of cash that no one knows where it went or what it was used for.   
   the good news is that more and more people are waking up to this whole notion you set forth for discussion.   
   the fact of reality that could trigger it?  it could be war, it could be a simple economic realization by the public, or even an epidemic of some sort.   ya never know exactly what the trigger is going to be, but somehow you just know it is coming.  the real question in my mind is, is knowing and trying to prepare for it going to do us any good?   or are things going to be so off the hook that everyone is screwed and survival will depend more upon luck than anything.      ???
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Sorting the value of things. (The great Ponzie scheem)
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2010, 08:45:14 AM »
someday you have to pay the piper .
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Sorting the value of things. (The great Ponzie scheem)
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2010, 02:42:02 PM »
Probe leads investors to wonder: Is game rigged?  Associated Press


http://apnews.myway.com//article/20101124/D9JMNVN00.html
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Oath Keepers: start local
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“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
-
An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
"I have seen the enemy and I think it's us." POGO
St Judes Childrens Research Hospital

Offline torpedoman

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Re: Sorting the value of things. (The great Ponzie scheem)
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2010, 05:16:19 PM »
Quote from: Brett on November 20, 2010, 03:33:38 AM
It does appear that the value of things today seems to be an arbitrary number based solely on what a person/persons is/are willing to pay not on any tangible criteria as you pointed out.  And as you noted the whole house of cards could very well come tumbling down if enough players decide to walk away from the table. 

Of course the antiques and collectibles market has been based on this same system from day one.  Is some hundred year old pistol really worth $2,000? Is some baseball card worth $700?  The old gun is just an assembly of machined metal parts and the baseball card is just cardboard and ink.  If you looked at it rationally neither is worth very much if anything.  Desire plays a bigger part in the equation than does rationality.  Those items demand those prices because enough people desire to poses them.     

The baseball card and the dollar seems like a fair trade one one paper and ink item for another
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Offline The Hermit

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Re: Sorting the value of things. (The great Ponzie scheem)
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2010, 06:02:26 PM »
Ponzi indeed. Madoff goes to jail for the same crime that Bernake is fostering on the taxpayer. IMHO, he has set the stage for an inflationary depression, with rising prices brought on by a depreciating dollar.
I just wished that I had a printing press back of the old cabin, so that I could run my own Ponzi deal.
In the 60's, you could buy a Mexican 50 Peso that contains 1.2 oz gold for $69. Thats worth roughly
$1600 today. That 1.2 oz gold will still buy the same items today that it bought in the 60's. Paper dollars are a license to steal from the citizens.
Russia and China reached a deal today to stop their international trades payments to each other in US Dollars. Instead they will use their own currencies. Value is a relative thing indeed.

   The Hermit
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Sorting the value of things. (The great Ponzie scheem)
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2010, 09:47:29 PM »
 Interesting discussion.

 I like gold. I have a really nice handmade chain (~1.3oz of 18kt) around my neck that never comes off. In gold value alone, it's worth over $1000 today. I bought it years ago when gold was much lower. Yippee. A good investment, right?

 What if it were made of copper? Would you pay a dollar for it?

 What if I could prove that this very chain was worn by King Tut? It would bring millions.

 But really, what difference does it make? It's hanging around my neck doing nothing but making me look fabulous (But only when I don't have a shirt on; I wear T-shirts with a tight collar that cover it up. Furthermore, I never go out in public without a T-shirt).

 I conclude that my chain in its current condition should pretty much be considered worthless. It's not fashioned into electrical components on a space probe nor on display at an art gallery. I keep it because I just 'like it' for some nebulous reason. Truth be told though, it's been there so long that I rarely take notice of it.

 I heard a guy talking about gold on the radio recently. Paraphrasing, he said...

 "People spend a lot of money to buy a gold mine. Then they pay people a lot of money to get the gold out of the ground. Then they sell the gold to someone for a lot of money. The people who bought it then pay a lot of money for an underground vault to store it."

 "So in the end, the gold has only been moved from one underground location to another where it continues to do nothing, just as it did before it was mined."

 Sounds illogical, don't it?

 However, most people who've held a substantial gold bar in their hand say that they'll never forget it. Maybe the draw to the stuff is wired into our brains somehow.
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Sorting the value of things. (The great Ponzie scheem)
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2010, 03:51:22 AM »
The value is certainly relative. The question is what will remain Gold and what will remain Tulip Bulbs? eddiegjr
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“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
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An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
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everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
"I have seen the enemy and I think it's us." POGO
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Sorting the value of things. (The great Ponzie scheem)
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2010, 04:29:52 AM »
I don't care if they are inflating the stock falsley or not. I buy in with my 401k when they are low and sell em and put em in fixed interest when they are low. I kinda likke this up and down market. I am looking for a low again. Pretty simple strategy I'd say.
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