Wood Stocks with their Black tip on the fore end.

[dpastordan]

I love a good wood stock on a bolt action.  But what "turns me off" is the stocks with the black tip.  The Remington 700 BDL, Ruger's lightweight model, many of the Weatherby's; and now Savage with its classic line.  To me it breaks up the lines of a classy looking firearm.  Winchester did it for awhile in the 70's which is one reason I chose the Sears version (no black tip but still same action) over a more expensive Winny.  It is just appearances that make no difference in shooting but I like the Remington 700 BDL action with sights...just can't bring myself to buy one with that ugly black tip. 

[jhm]

You can still get after market stocks, and remington sell a stock I beloeve on the CDL model that doesnt have the ebony tip.   HTH   Jim

[usherj]

Just remember, it could always be worse. It could have those white spacers or a gaudy gold trigger

[Reverend Recoil]

The forend tip could be circumcised like a Ruger No.1 Sporter.

[Catfish]

Your right! You need a rifle with one of those black plastic stocks that twist in you hand. 

[wareagleguy]

I just had to post.  I am sitting here at my computer desk with a small package from Remington.  It is a replacement tip that got broke off one of those wood stocks.  My buddy bought one brand new and when he was taking it out of the box he dropped the stock and the tip just shattered.   

[dpastordan]

Thanks for the replies. I know about the after market stocks...which is my plan when I finallly put the bucks down on a 700. White spacers and gold triggers...yeah...other pet peeves of mine.  Ruger came out with a good looking stock.  I owned three but the accuracy of their barrels about 15 years ago was not all that great.  I am dreaming for a moment - Savage barrel, mixed with a Remington action, Ruger style mounts, Ruger stock...add a good trigger, pachmayr recoil pad...

[Swampman]

I like black tips, white spacers, and high gloss finishes it they are correct for the gun.  I dislike any kind of plastic, kevlar, or fiberglass stock.

The Remington Classic stock would probably suit you very well.

I can get you a Savage barrel after I pull my tomato plants up for the winter.

[TLARbb]

I agree with you about the tip.  The black tip is just fluff with no substance.  I guess that's why I have four Remington Classics.  I even have a 700 CDL that I have picked up a classic stock to swap out on it.  That said, the CDL stock is very nice and I can overlook the black tip.  I did just buy a CDL stock for a Model Seven just because it has the nice soft recoil pad the the original stock does not have. 

I don't agree with Swampman about using the Savage barrels for tomato stakes though. 

EJ

[drdougrx]

I don't much mind the black tips...think they dress up the stock some.  I also like the scheaubel (sp?) tip as well....also don't mind the alex henrey tip on the #1 sporter....must be me.....guess I can't say much for style......

[Brithunter]

Hmmm the tipped stocks go a long ways back, right back to the muzzle loaders I believe. Originally they were Horn at least on British rifles. Am not familar enough with old American rifles to say for sure. Horn was aslo used for Butt plates and even trigger guards. The Austro/German gunmakers used a lot of horn guards as fingers don't freeze to horn like they can to metal.

I am not sure when the idea of the white line spacers came in  but as I understand it they were originally made from White Maple then later plastic  . Ebony became popular for tips and grip caps as did Rosewood and whilst I like the caps I am not so keen on the white lined spacers even on vintage stocks but they are a fact of life on these vintage rifles like this mid 60's BSA:-


White line spacers and Rosewood tip and grip cap. The Rosewood in the tip has some nice grain in it.

Now as for Gold triggers well on shotguns they still seem in vogue from what I see. Parker-Hale had the trigger blades fitted to the 1200 series gold plated as it was deemed a good sales feature for the US market like the high gloss stocks and roll over cheeppiece

[Dave in WV]

Everyone's taste in the look of a firearm is different. I like the black tip but not whiteline spacers or glossy stocks. I don't care for ventilated recoil pads either. I like full "Mannlicher" stocks if done to my liking (no roll over cheek piece, whiteline spacers, or Monte Carlo comb).

[Coyote Hunter]

I love a good wood stock on a bolt action.  But what "turns me off" is the stocks with the black tip.  ...just can't bring myself to buy one with that ugly black tip. 

I don't mind the looks, even like them.  What turns me off is that they have been known to break off. 

[Brithunter]

I love a good wood stock on a bolt action.  But what "turns me off" is the stocks with the black tip.  ...just can't bring myself to buy one with that ugly black tip. 

I don't mind the looks, even like them.  What turns me off is that they have been known to break off. 

If that's the case then the stock was not made properly in the first place  get adecent quality one and you will have no problems with it.

[Coyote Hunter]

I don't mind the looks, even like them.  What turns me off is that they have been known to break off. 

If that's the case then the stock was not made properly in the first place  get adecent quality one and you will have no problems with it.

The problem is you don’t necessarily know until it is too late.  In fact, I suspect the only way to tell would be destructive testing, and that defeats the purpose.

On the other hand, I’ve never known the tip to break off a solid wood stock.  They can crack, break at the wrist and do other unwanted things, but that is true with black-tipped stocks as well.

[Brithunter]

CH, it sounds like you have experience, a lot of experience, with kiln dried wood. They use it because it's quick and cheap not because it's good. Kiln dried is more prone to warping and cracking as it lack the strength of properly air dires wood. But one must bow down to the great god excessive profit above all else.

One reason I prefer vintage guns. They have properly cured wood in most cases.

[Coyote Hunter]

CH, it sounds like you have experience, a lot of experience, with kiln dried wood. They use it because it's quick and cheap not because it's good. Kiln dried is more prone to warping and cracking as it lack the strength of properly air dires wood. But one must bow down to the great god excessive profit above all else.

One reason I prefer vintage guns. They have properly cured wood in most cases.

Not so much, I just prefer simple when complicated adds nothing of value.

To date, no one has been able to explain to me what the tips add except looks, and looks add nothing to reliability or field performance.  Not saying I would turn down a rifle with a tip, but don't own any and fancy tips are a zero priority.  My rifles are hunters, not collectors items.

[Brithunter]

CH, it sounds like you have experience, a lot of experience, with kiln dried wood. They use it because it's quick and cheap not because it's good. Kiln dried is more prone to warping and cracking as it lack the strength of properly air dires wood. But one must bow down to the great god excessive profit above all else.

One reason I prefer vintage guns. They have properly cured wood in most cases.

Not so much, I just prefer simple when complicated adds nothing of value.

To date, no one has been able to explain to me what the tips add except looks, and looks add nothing to reliability or field performance.  Not saying I would turn down a rifle with a tip, but don't own any and fancy tips are a zero priority.  My rifles are hunters, not collectors items.

Ok so please explain why a collectable rifle cannot be used in the field to hunt with?

For example this is the only one made by this company in this chambering. They only made to order and will not make another in this chambering they said.:-





That one does not have a fore-end tip as the person who ordered it did not ask for one. That rifle cost me around $4000 S/H without the scope.


BSA Model E again a collectable used for hunting.




Another BSA and one of only 389 made in this chambering of this model, it has the rosewood fore end tip as you can (it's the one on the right) next to Steven's L61R Sako another collectable that is hunted with.


Another vintage BSA sporting rifle this time with horn fore end tip.

Now the funny thing is that the british sportsmen sort of went away from horn tips in the late 1950's and early 1960's however manufactures like BSA and Parker-hale had to bring back the tips for the American market who also gave us the White line spacers  . This is the British home and European market stock on a BSA Majestic:-


The American stock had a roll over comb and Rose wood tip and grip cap white line spacers and a much heavier fuller stock. Even the pistol grip is more club like like the Monarch photo I posted earlier.

Now I both collect and hunt and I cannot understand who you feel that just because a rifle is a collectable it cannot be hunted with. I wonder if your related to our Firearms Licensing Officer as she also seems to have difficulty with this concept  . You would not expect the owner of a classic car never to drive it so what's different about a rifle or shotgun?

[Swampman]

A pretty gal and an ugly gal can do all the same stuff.  Life's too short to hunt with utility (ugly) guns.

[Coyote Hunter]

Not so much, I just prefer simple when complicated adds nothing of value.

To date, no one has been able to explain to me what the tips add except looks, and looks add nothing to reliability or field performance.  Not saying I would turn down a rifle with a tip, but don't own any and fancy tips are a zero priority.  My rifles are hunters, not collector’s items.

Ok so please explain why a collectable rifle cannot be used in the field to hunt with?
 

Brithunter –

Those are beautiful specimens, no question.  Send any of them my way and I promise to take VERY good care of them!

First, a correction – I DO own a rifle with a black tip, just one.  And, for those that care (I don’t), it has white line spacers, too!!!  It is the 1975 Remington M700 BDL in .308 Win. I bought in like-new condition back in November of 2005.  Gander Mountain had it for sale and I picked it up for $350.  Probably my prettiest rifle and it shoots like this:

First handloads, development loads, 0.5g powder increments per shot:


Later, with one of those powder charges:


And yes, I’ve taken it hunting – so far only for antelope and only in good weather.  My bad for forgetting about that one!

In 2008 I bought a brand new Remington M700 “Special Purpose Wood”, manufactured in 2005.  It is the third from the left in the photo below.  The rifles, from the left, are a Ruger M77 .30-06, Ruger MKII stainless .30-06, Remington M700 .30-06, Ruger “boat paddle” stock, Ruger MKII stainless long action with magnum bolt face:



What the photo doesn’t show is the “character marks” the Remington .30-06 received on its very first hunt.  We had climbed the western peak of Bear’s Ears (northwest Colorado between Steamboat Springs and Craig, pretty much due north of Hayden) and were descending the northwest slope.  I took two separate spills on the talus.  Between them I ended up with scratches in the scope, barrel and action and multiple dings in the wood.  The “character marks” didn’t make me very happy but didn’t overly distress me, either.   Had it been a “collector’s item” the distress level would have been much higher.

I only own one custom rifle and the “opportunity cost” of purchasing that rifle meant that I got one rifle instead of several.  The rifle is an Interarms Mark X action on a Boyd stock with Timney trigger and Kreiger barrel.  Krieger trued the action, installed a 6.5-06AI barrel and bedded the action to the stock.  I built it for long range play (out to about 1200 yards) and long range hunting (out to about 800 yards).



Expensive and shoots like a dream, but not really a collectible and nothing really fancy.  If I ding the stock it is easily replaced.  Scratches in the metal I can live with but something I would prefer to delay as long as possible.

Here are pictures of some of my other rifles.

From bottom up, Browning B92 .44 Mag, Marlin 336CS .30-30, Marlin 375 .375 win, Marlin 1895 .45.70:


Ruger M77 .257 Roberts:


Ruger MKII’s in .300 Win Mag (top)  and stainless .30-06 (bottom) in “boat paddle” stocks.  You’ve seen the .30-06 above as it was when I purchased it in the laminate stock:


The Ruger MKII stainless action on the right in the top rifle photo above is a work in progress.  The action is now mounted in the laminate stock taken off the .30-06 and Santa is bringing a scope.  The barrel will have to wait until after tax time but it will likely be either a .375 Ruger or a .338-.375 Ruger wildcat.  Again, nothing fancy and certainly not a collectible item, although the final price tag will be higher than I like and once again the “opportunity cost” will measured in multiple rifles that I could have purchased for less.

Well over half my centerfire rifles were purchased used and I’m very happy with them.  In the factory new  rifles, nothing cost over $550.  No ugly ducklings and all shoot very well except my Remington  M700 in .30-06, which struggles to maintain 1-1/2” groups.  They make great hunters but no one is going to pay a premium for them based on their collectability, which rates zip.  I appreciate fancy wood, engraving, gold inlay and so on, I’m just not willing to pay for it on a hunter as they inevitably and invariably show the wear one way or another. 

At any rate, there is nothing “wrong” with hunting with fancy or collectible rifles.  More power to those who choose to do so, I just prefer to put my money into function.

[Brithunter]

Nice   now I almost forgot the Medwell & Perritt, that's the one pictured with the deer, well there is a tiny chip to the stock. As on a lot of these high grade rifles there is a tiny bit of wood that stands up behind the bolt handle and somehow and I don't know when I caught it and it has chepped off. One day I will shave it level with a sharp chisel and put soe oil over it.

Now I forgot about this one which is the last but one rifle I acquired jsut about 12 months ago now:-






The plan is to give the stock a re-finish with hand rubbed oil to bring the grain out at some point. It's a Parker-Hale 1200C with drop mag in 25-06. Those photos were taken just after I got it and that Simmons scope is back on the .22 Rimfire now and it has my Schmidt & Bender 6x42 on it. The rifle cost me  about $480 used without scope but the Leupold std mounts. The prices of stuff here would give you a heart attack  .

These Parker-Hales and BSA's are collectable but at the bottom end but I did get lucky at a show and fall over an unsual Rigby Mannlicher and I brought it   and I have a Mannlicher mdl 1903 Schoenauer 6.5x54MS that's a long term project as it needs restocking to finish it off and I cannot afford to get it done right now. It was supposed to be a cheap rifle but after I got a new original Steyr made in the white barrel fitted and it re-blued cheap sort of went out of the window so the new stock will finish it off nicely. Have a vintage Carl Zeiss Dialtal 4x32 rail mount scope to go in eventually.

I believe the white spacers and stuff can be blamed on the California style so popular in the early 1960's. Notice how the BSA Monarch's stoc profile is very similar to the Remington 700 of that period   it was done so to get sales in the US..

[Coyote Hunter]

Brithunter -

That's another beauty!  I've seen a couple PH rifles here at gun shows but they were over-priced to my way of thinking and not nearly as nice as that one looks to be. 

[Barstooler]

I have three with black tips.  I like them if they are real ebony and not plastic.

Barstooler

[Mckie Hollow]

I have a Friend that does exhibition stuff. He uses black tips a lot. But His stuff is usually buffalo horn.

[Brithunter]

Ahhh not all horn is black  I am currently making a Horn Butt plate for a re-build of an old BSA .303 sporting rifle that piece of Horn is Buffalo, African Buffaloe, but the stock I am using is a sporterised P-14 stock that was modified by Parker-Hale. As the stock is a wee bit short in LOP where the stock has been cut straight to remove the curve of the metal military buttplate however the tang recess remained so I cut an inletted a piece of horn that has a greensih hue:-





The contrast should be nice against the black polished Buffalo horn. The forestock will have an inlet of this greensih horn under it to match the butt. The Greenish coloured horn wa snot big enough nor thick enough to make the butplate from sadly.

[mauser98us]

I love classic rifle with wood or horn pistol grips and forend tip. I dislike the Weatherby style,but it is historic. It does not stop me if I like the calibre.All the rifles I have built in the last ten years have horn tips and pistol grip caps. Oh yeah ,I also like the exposed recoil lug bolt ala mauser and Parker Hale. To me nothing looks better than a Mauser pattern B or a British sporter with that short forearm. Simply awesome.

[Brithunter]

I love classic rifle with wood or horn pistol grips and forend tip. I dislike the Weatherby style,but it is historic. It does not stop me if I like the calibre.All the rifles I have built in the last ten years have horn tips and pistol grip caps. Oh yeah ,I also like the exposed recoil lug bolt ala mauser and Parker Hale. To me nothing looks better than a Mauser pattern B or a British sporter with that short forearm. Simply awesome.

OK as it's Christmas here you go a little prezzie for you to look at. Sorry it's not a Mauser:-




Complete with No3 Vee express sights.


the name on the barrel  a lot of folks don't realise the Rigby did Mannlichers as well.

[mauser98us]

Box it up. I will take it! Is it a 6.5?

[Brithunter]

Box it up. I will take it! Is it a 6.5?

Oh yes it's a .256" see:-





or 6.5x53R in metric.

The dealer had not noticed the name on the barrel and the wood was very dry but a bit of feeding with BLO and a rub over and the stock came right up. I did take it back to Rigby's when they were still at the Elephant & Castle and they gave it a service and found that box of ammo with the black clips which they let me have to go with it and they also copied the ledger page for this rifle so I have a record of when it was built and who for and the spec it left Rigby's workshops in and it has not been altered at all 

[john keyes]

man I'm drooling over those 160? gr RN bullets and all that leather.     some nice pics in this thread.